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Post by jclangston on Apr 8, 2016 8:13:07 GMT -5
I apologize if there is already a thread about this but I did a quick search and didn't find anything. Has there been any talk of an HDMI board upgrade for 4K? Like a lot of you I'm start to get 4K devices, UHD BR player, and a Directv 4K receiver. Amen Corner at Augusta looks amazing on Directv in 4K. Its just inconvenient to have to run dual HDMI's for audio and video or have to go back to optical for audio.
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Post by qdtjni on Apr 8, 2016 8:22:52 GMT -5
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Post by jclangston on Apr 8, 2016 8:24:48 GMT -5
Thanks! Hopefully it really is 1-2 months.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Apr 8, 2016 9:05:59 GMT -5
The 4k upgrade board for the XMC-1 will be shipping in several weeks (development is basically finished and we're waiting for parts). This board will upgrade the XMC-1 to have one HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2 input (and one HDMI 2.0 output). It will not, however, support HDR. This will be a "factory upgrade". We expect to have another HDMI 2.0 upgrade option later in the year - possibly with four HDMI 2.0 ports and support for full HDR as well - but there are no firm details about that one yet.. I apologize if there is already a thread about this but I did a quick search and didn't find anything. Has there been any talk of an HDMI board upgrade for 4K? Like a lot of you I'm start to get 4K devices, UHD BR player, and a Directv 4K receiver. Amen Corner at Augusta looks amazing on Directv in 4K. Its just inconvenient to have to run dual HDMI's for audio and video or have to go back to optical for audio.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Apr 8, 2016 12:47:53 GMT -5
The 4k upgrade board for the XMC-1 will be shipping in several weeks (development is basically finished and we're waiting for parts). This board will upgrade the XMC-1 to have one HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2 input (and one HDMI 2.0 output). It will not, however, support HDR. This will be a "factory upgrade". We expect to have another HDMI 2.0 upgrade option later in the year - possibly with four HDMI 2.0 ports and support for full HDR as well - but there are no firm details about that one yet.. What do you mean by "factory upgrade"? Are the 2.0 ports not 9 GHz versions that support 4:2:2, 12-bit, at 4K24, and 8-bit/4:2:0 at 4k60? (As I currently understand it, all we really need for current HDR 4K blurays) The "full HDR" 18G ports (HDMI2.0a?) are for 10bit 4:2:0 4K60 material which quite honestly I'll wait to see them before I believe them since I doubt we will ever see a 4K disk encoded like that. ...or am I missing something? I'm still trying to wrap my head around the whole 4k HDR situation.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Apr 8, 2016 12:59:13 GMT -5
The 4k upgrade board for the XMC-1 will be shipping in several weeks (development is basically finished and we're waiting for parts). This board will upgrade the XMC-1 to have one HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2 input (and one HDMI 2.0 output). It will not, however, support HDR. This will be a "factory upgrade". We expect to have another HDMI 2.0 upgrade option later in the year - possibly with four HDMI 2.0 ports and support for full HDR as well - but there are no firm details about that one yet.. What do you mean by "factory upgrade"? Are the 2.0 ports not 9 GHz versions that support 4:2:2, 12-bit, at 4K24, and 8-bit/4:2:0 at 4k60? (all we really need for current HDR 4K blurays) The "full HDR" 18G ports are for 10bit 4:2:0 4K60 material which quite honestly I'll wait to see them before I believe them since I doubt we will ever see a 4K disk encoded like that. ...or am I missing something? I think he means the board swap has to be done at Emotiva.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Apr 8, 2016 13:56:56 GMT -5
In point of fact..... The current HDMI ports in the XMC-1 support 9 gHz, and support 4k60 video just fine - but what they don't support is the HDCP 2.2 COPY PROTECTION which is used in most commercial 4k content. (HDMI 2.0 calls for support for HDCP 2.2 copy protection as part of the spec. Not all 4k sources use or require HDCP 2.2 - but all commercial 4k discs do require it, as do most 4k streaming content sources.) What the new board is actually adding is HDCP 2.2 support on one of the inputs and one of the outputs. But, yes, what I meant was that, if you have an XMC-1 which needs the upgrade, you will be required to send it back to us to install the board. (The reason is that, while the board swap isn't especially difficult, it isn't foolproof - and we really prefer to be able to test the entire unit after the board is installed to confirm that it's working properly.) What do you mean by "factory upgrade"? Are the 2.0 ports not 9 GHz versions that support 4:2:2, 12-bit, at 4K24, and 8-bit/4:2:0 at 4k60? (all we really need for current HDR 4K blurays) The "full HDR" 18G ports are for 10bit 4:2:0 4K60 material which quite honestly I'll wait to see them before I believe them since I doubt we will ever see a 4K disk encoded like that. ...or am I missing something? I think he means the board swap has to be done at Emotiva.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Apr 8, 2016 15:22:41 GMT -5
In point of fact..... The current HDMI ports in the XMC-1 support 9 gHz, and support 4k60 video just fine - but what they don't support is the HDCP 2.2 COPY PROTECTION which is used in most commercial 4k content. (HDMI 2.0 calls for support for HDCP 2.2 copy protection as part of the spec. Not all 4k sources use or require HDCP 2.2 - but all commercial 4k discs do require it, as do most 4k streaming content sources.) What the new board is actually adding is HDCP 2.2 support on one of the inputs and one of the outputs. But, yes, what I meant was that, if you have an XMC-1 which needs the upgrade, you will be required to send it back to us to install the board. (The reason is that, while the board swap isn't especially difficult, it isn't foolproof - and we really prefer to be able to test the entire unit after the board is installed to confirm that it's working properly.) Got it. And the "full HDR" board will be the 18 GHz parts, correct? I'm not sure if the HDMI 2.1 parts are even past the evaluation phase yet.
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Post by cwt on Apr 8, 2016 23:43:51 GMT -5
[quote author=" bootman" source="/post/810846/thread" timestamp="1460137673 What do you mean by "factory upgrade"? Are the 2.0 ports not 9 GHz versions that support 4:2:2, 12-bit, at 4K24, and 8-bit/4:2:0 at 4k60? (As I currently understand it, all we really need for current HDR 4K blurays) The "full HDR" 18G ports (HDMI2.0a?) are for 10bit 4:2:0 4K60 material which quite honestly I'll wait to see them before I believe them since I doubt we will ever see a 4K disk encoded like that. [/quote] If my memory is close bootman ; emo would prefer it done in the factory as they dont want a lot of botched returns but you can do it yourself if you feel proficient . Anyone feel free to contradict this. The 1in 1out card is good for all those 4k bit rate and frame rates that uhd bluray plays . Separate to that is HDR metadata that is also encoded in the new uhd discs ; this cant be sent unless the hdmi 2.0 chipset has the 'a' format extension ; from hdmi.org - But wait hdmi2.0b is just around the corner ; it never ends If I had a xmc1 I would wait ; HDR is more important than resolution with uhd imho. Depends on your panels capabilities though whether to wait. www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/index.aspxedit Keith has clarified the sending back
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Post by rogersch on Apr 9, 2016 1:31:11 GMT -5
But, yes, what I meant was that, if you have an XMC-1 which needs the upgrade, you will be required to send it back to us to install the board. (The reason is that, while the board swap isn't especially difficult, it isn't foolproof - and we really prefer to be able to test the entire unit after the board is installed to confirm that it's working properly.) Mmm that will then be a very expensive, and time consuming, upgrade for International Customers. Probably a no go for me then..
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Post by petes on Apr 10, 2016 17:20:29 GMT -5
But, yes, what I meant was that, if you have an XMC-1 which needs the upgrade, you will be required to send it back to us to install the board. (The reason is that, while the board swap isn't especially difficult, it isn't foolproof - and we really prefer to be able to test the entire unit after the board is installed to confirm that it's working properly.) I think he means the board swap has to be done at Emotiva. Keith, what's the plan for International customers? Shipping the XMC back for a new board would likely cost me $250 and mean being without my setup working for 2-3 weeks.
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Post by socketman on Apr 10, 2016 20:17:44 GMT -5
This is truly unfortunate, it was originally stated that the customer could do the install themselves. I feel cheated to be honest, this really makes the XMC-1 a doorstop in the not too distant future. Honestly I paid for the hardware I should be able to do as I like and if I choose to upgrade myself then so be it . If I mess up its on me and I will decide whether to send it for a repair at my expense of put it in the closet.
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Post by ottaone on Apr 10, 2016 20:32:36 GMT -5
This is one of the main reasons (ok, maybe the one single reason) that I decided not to take the XMC-1 when I got the email from Emo. I don't mind buying the Emo products that don't need to change frequently like the pre-amp, speakers, DAC, etc. but not the prepro. As you can see in my sig, I have maybe two dozen of Emo products (some I've since sold like a pair of UPA-1s) but I'll go mainstream on the prepro, maybe a Marantz by December 2016 (cash flow permitting). I think the HDR is pretty much a done deal by now.
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Post by socketman on Apr 10, 2016 20:48:15 GMT -5
Ha Ha that's funny, they are no where near done with us. They will keep this stuff in flux till were all dead and gone. They gotta keep selling equipment. I almost bought a Samsung 4k player but realized no Dolby Vision and from what I am reading HDR will be getting an overhaul to make it dynamic like Dolby Vision. HDR is pretty spotty and there is no real guidelines like DV has so the picture has consistency between all movies. The next couple of years will be fun to follow.
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Post by ottaone on Apr 10, 2016 21:05:54 GMT -5
True on tech changes. But i still have one of the first 55" 1080i TVs - bought in 2002 for C$4,000. Some tech can last a long time. Now back to XMC-1 and HDCP 2.2.:-)
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 11, 2016 0:41:06 GMT -5
True on tech changes. But i still have one of the first 55" 1080i TVs - bought in 2002 for C$4,000. Some tech can last a long time. Now back to XMC-1 and HDCP 2.2.:-) There's a big difference between "last a long time" and "remain current", be able to process all of the latest codecs, handle all of the latest copyright protection, etc etc. Cheers Gary
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 11, 2016 4:19:39 GMT -5
This is one of the main reasons (ok, maybe the one single reason) that I decided not to take the XMC-1 when I got the email from Emo. I don't mind buying the Emo products that don't need to change frequently like the pre-amp, speakers, DAC, etc. but not the prepro. As you can see in my sig, I have maybe two dozen of Emo products (some I've since sold like a pair of UPA-1s) but I'll go mainstream on the prepro, maybe a Marantz by December 2016 (cash flow permitting). I think the HDR is pretty much a done deal by now. Mainstream won't guarantee stability in a pre-pro. They also are not inexpensive. You could probably save some money by going with a receiver and just use it as a preamp. I don't regret one bit purchasing the XMC-1 especially at the low initial price when they sent the e-mail to me.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Apr 11, 2016 10:28:16 GMT -5
Just to clarify one thing.... Dolby Vision is simply a version of HDR..... and exactly what you'll get with "HDR support" on a given TV is also a little vague. (Devices that "support HDR" essentially agree to accept the HDR signal, which "offers the potential for far wider color gamut and dynamic range", and then do the best they can to deliver an enhanced picture "based on the HDR information - and the capabilities of the device". Devices that don't support HDR ignore that extra information.) The reason I say all that (and so carefully) is that the whole "HDR experience" is somewhat vague. For example, the Samsung TV I currently own is NOT "HDR". However, the newest HDR model only has a peak brightness about four times higher than mine (so I guess that, even though theoretically "HDR can deliver up to 40x the brightness", THAT model won't be doing so). And, since my TV makes me squint at maximum brightness in a dark room already, I'm not sure I'd want it to get 4x brighter (let alone 40x brighter). And, since both mine and the newer model use LCD technology, and so their black level is somewhat more limited than on an OLED model, I'm also not sure that the new one will get especially blacker blacks either. Rumor has it that the monitors they've been using to "preview" Dolby Vision at the trade shows have been tweaked to be able to play far brighter than any currently available set - but I can't confirm that. Therefore, it will be interesting to see how much better it actually looks - as soon as we actually have some stuff to watch. (It will also be interesting to see, if it actually looks noticeably better, how much content there is that will take advantage of it.) And, yes, it will be interesting to see what comes out next. (Ask yourself: How long did 4k remain "current". If I were cynical, I might laugh at the fact that "regular 4k" has already become "obsolete" before the first disc became available for purchase.) Ha Ha that's funny, they are no where near done with us. They will keep this stuff in flux till were all dead and gone. They gotta keep selling equipment. I almost bought a Samsung 4k player but realized no Dolby Vision and from what I am reading HDR will be getting an overhaul to make it dynamic like Dolby Vision. HDR is pretty spotty and there is no real guidelines like DV has so the picture has consistency between all movies. The next couple of years will be fun to follow.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Apr 11, 2016 10:41:20 GMT -5
I don't have any specific answers there yet. I suspect we'll be doing something involving our new International Distributors - but, until it's finalized, I'm NOT going to say anything that can turn out to be wrong later But, yes, what I meant was that, if you have an XMC-1 which needs the upgrade, you will be required to send it back to us to install the board. (The reason is that, while the board swap isn't especially difficult, it isn't foolproof - and we really prefer to be able to test the entire unit after the board is installed to confirm that it's working properly.) Keith, what's the plan for International customers? Shipping the XMC back for a new board would likely cost me $250 and mean being without my setup working for 2-3 weeks.
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Post by socketman on Apr 12, 2016 10:23:43 GMT -5
I am no expert on the HDR subject but from what I have been reading HDR10 is the wild wild west in comparison to Dobly Vision which is a strict and closed ecosystem designed to give very specific results by having complete control of the TV . The intent of HDR is not to brighten the overall screen, rather to highlight and create greater contrast between objects displayed on the screen. There are plenty of articles on the web to explain how it is all supposed to work and I don't claim to understand al of it. What I worry about is that we may not be too far away from yet another HDMI standard that will once again cause electronics companies like Emotiva no end of grief. Of course this is passed along to us poor saps , who are attempting to make their equipment last more than a year. It is nothing more than forced obsolescence, truly a shame.
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