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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 10, 2018 17:00:41 GMT -5
So on Friday I received an email from a retailer telling me that one of Australia's largest distributor of hifi, audio, video gear was having a warehouse clearance yesterday. The usual range of superseded models, ex demo, refurbished etc including gear from 3 of their major manufacturers, being NAD, Onkyo and Harmon Kardon. I checked out was was available and there were about 20 or so AVR's in the various price brackets, all of which featured 4K support but not Atmos/DTSX/Auro (ie; there wasn't any without 4K support). I didn't buy anything but I came to the conclusion that 4K was the main game but anything without Atmos/DTSX/Auro was considered "superseded". Out of date enough (so much) that the distributor was clearing inventory of anything without object oriented audio support.
Cheers Gary
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 11, 2018 10:51:53 GMT -5
If you use the ARC in the 4K TV, is there a need for HDMI 2.0 on the XMC-1?
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Post by 405x5 on Feb 11, 2018 11:11:58 GMT -5
So on Friday I received an email from a retailer telling me that one of Australia's largest distributor of hifi, audio, video gear was having a warehouse clearance yesterday. The usual range of superseded models, ex demo, refurbished etc including gear from 3 of their major manufacturers, being NAD, Onkyo and Harmon Kardon. I checked out was was available and there were about 20 or so AVR's in the various price brackets, all of which featured 4K support but not Atmos/DTSX/Auro (ie; there wasn't any without 4K support). I didn't buy anything but I came to the conclusion that 4K was the main game but anything without Atmos/DTSX/Auro was considered "superseded". Out of date enough (so much) that the distributor was clearing inventory of anything without object oriented audio support. Cheers Gary Hi Gary, Not sure 🤔 what conclusions could be drawn from 20 units of a clearance sale. Object based audio will remain a Niche market, probably forever in terms of the relatively few people who will take it all the way with properly installed, down firing speakers, etc. Bill
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Post by davidl81 on Feb 11, 2018 11:27:24 GMT -5
So on Friday I received an email from a retailer telling me that one of Australia's largest distributor of hifi, audio, video gear was having a warehouse clearance yesterday. The usual range of superseded models, ex demo, refurbished etc including gear from 3 of their major manufacturers, being NAD, Onkyo and Harmon Kardon. I checked out was was available and there were about 20 or so AVR's in the various price brackets, all of which featured 4K support but not Atmos/DTSX/Auro (ie; there wasn't any without 4K support). I didn't buy anything but I came to the conclusion that 4K was the main game but anything without Atmos/DTSX/Auro was considered "superseded". Out of date enough (so much) that the distributor was clearing inventory of anything without object oriented audio support. Cheers Gary Hi Gary, Not sure 🤔 what conclusions could be drawn from 20 units of a clearance sale. Object based audio will remain a Niche market, probably forever in terms of the relatively few people who will take it all the way with properly installed, down firing speakers, etc. Bill It may be Niche in the amount of people who will do a full 7.2.4 install, but most consumers when purchasing a new pre-pro will want Atmos in it since you are making an investment for a product that should last at least five years. The idea of buying a unit that I know is already lacking current gen technology is a hard pill to swallow. Even if you have no intention of installing Atoms right now, I’m pretty sure none of us know what we will do with our setups in the next five years or so. So if you bought a unit without Atmos you would then pin yourself into a corner if you wanted to upgrade in the future. Now if you found a pre/pro for a big savings versus one that had Atmos (thus the clearance units) then it is easier to just buy that unit and save big upfront knowing that you may have to replace it later on if you decide to go Atoms.
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Post by 405x5 on Feb 11, 2018 12:57:30 GMT -5
Hi Gary, Not sure 🤔 what conclusions could be drawn from 20 units of a clearance sale. Object based audio will remain a Niche market, probably forever in terms of the relatively few people who will take it all the way with properly installed, down firing speakers, etc. Bill It may be Niche in the amount of people who will do a full 7.2.4 install, but most consumers when purchasing a new pre-pro will want Atmos in it since you are making an investment for a product that should last at least five years. The idea of buying a unit that I know is already lacking current gen technology is a hard pill to swallow. Even if you have no intention of installing Atoms right now, I’m pretty sure none of us know what we will do with our setups in the next five years or so. So if you bought a unit without Atmos you would then pin yourself into a corner if you wanted to upgrade in the future. Now if you found a pre/pro for a big savings versus one that had Atmos (thus the clearance units) then it is easier to just buy that unit and save big upfront knowing that you may have to replace it later on if you decide to go Atoms. I ran my first AV processor for 13 years, so believe me, I understand the whole longevity argument. Already, I’ve had the XMC1 running into its 4th year (still like everyone else whos got one) without Atmos. I respectfully disagree with pretty much everything you have said here and think MOST who invest in separate components have a pretty good idea about where they want to be with this when it’s all set up. Most professionals I follow maintain that still, the vast majority of systems in play, professionally installed are 5.1 systems.
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Post by flamingeye on Feb 11, 2018 13:56:11 GMT -5
from what I've been reading about Atoms is not just about the hight channels it's how they mix the audio for object placement and not channel based
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 11, 2018 14:03:33 GMT -5
So on Friday I received an email from a retailer telling me that one of Australia's largest distributor of hifi, audio, video gear was having a warehouse clearance yesterday. The usual range of superseded models, ex demo, refurbished etc including gear from 3 of their major manufacturers, being NAD, Onkyo and Harmon Kardon. I checked out was was available and there were about 20 or so AVR's in the various price brackets, all of which featured 4K support but not Atmos/DTSX/Auro (ie; there wasn't any without 4K support). I didn't buy anything but I came to the conclusion that 4K was the main game but anything without Atmos/DTSX/Auro was considered "superseded". Out of date enough (so much) that the distributor was clearing inventory of anything without object oriented audio support. Hi Gary, Not sure 🤔 what conclusions could be drawn from 20 units of a clearance sale.Object based audio will remain a Niche market, probably forever in terms of the relatively few people who will take it all the way with properly installed, down firing speakers, etc. Bill I draw a few conclusions Bill; Firstly, there were no non 4K capable AVR's, all of them were cleared out, at least, in last year's warehouse sales. Non 4K was considered obsolete over a year ago, their retailers made the call on 4K in 2016. Secondly, now in 2018, even a 4K capable AVR needs to cleared if it doesn't have object based audio. Thirdly, no 4K object based audio capable AVR's were on clearance. The number (20) is irrelevant in the above context because it's 100% consistent. Whilst the 3 brands cover a broad segment of the market, it is representing a one State (NSW) in 7 market. Other States may well be different, other brands also may be different, but I don't believe that either disqualifies it as a representative sample. Cheers Gary
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 11, 2018 14:13:22 GMT -5
from what I've been reading about Atoms is not just about the hight channels it's how they mix the audio for object placement and not channel based Precisely, people can still run a 5.1 system AND Atmos/DTSX , they are totally compatible and not at all mutually exclusive. There are recognised advantages in object based audio that don't rely on additional speakers. Not the least of which is in the ability within DTSX of being able to control the dialogue volume ie; not relying on the volume of the centre channel. Cheers Gary
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Post by deepstage on Feb 13, 2018 21:16:19 GMT -5
I concur 100% with what Gary said. I held out for a long time like so many did, to purchase the much anticipated XMC-1. I've been very pleased with it as it's been rock steady for me. So much so that I haven't even installed the latest update yet. I have no need for 4k as I'm still running a 1080P projector and 65" samsung and they both look great so I'm happy for now. It may be a few years before I step up to 4K just mainly due to cost of a "good" 4K projector is still more than I want to pay and the turtle like pace of content. I mean bloody hell, most tv broadcasts I see are still sub par, let alone 1080P quality.
Now the ATMOS deal has all of a sudden become a big deal for me. I've finished the fiber optic star ceiling I've been wanting. I added two ceiling speakers into it and with the two already behind me, I'm all set up. So I went from not really having the setup for it to all set for 11 channels and believe me, I want it!
In all of the forums and facebook groups I read, there are a LOT of people craving and object based option in their purchase. I feel it's gaining momentum much faster than 4K has. Maybe there are more people like me, who are plenty happy with a good 1080P image and get a much bigger satisfaction from a good movie sound mix. I never thought I'd say this, but I've come to appreciate a more film like look to most of my movies over an over purified quality. And I'm saying that as it pertains to the image on my 120" screen, nevermind a smaller tv where the increase in quality is likely less evident.
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Post by TyeDye on Feb 13, 2018 22:36:27 GMT -5
If you use the ARC in the 4K TV, is there a need for HDMI 2.0 on the XMC-1? Arc is not the answer ..... Of course its relevant .... We are missing out on a tremendous, beautiful 4K world .... The Promise / Slaes Pitch that persuaded m with my XMC1 purchase was the promise of Non Obsolesence .... The on line in writint promise was that we would recieve access to Timely updates as technology developed .... We are at least 1 year beyond that promise. And I'm still hopeing the latest promise, that the Video upgrade will be available By end of Feb 2018 really hapens `..... well see .... If its not soon Audio reviewers and magazines and blogs will soon be saying "What has happened to Eomotiva's Promises ...The question is if it dosen't hapened should Emotiva buy back the broken promises .... of current Video and Audio non absolesence. I would like to know how many purchasers of the XMC1 bought their units with the promise of fully modular upgrades on a timely schedule?
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Post by TyeDye on Feb 13, 2018 22:39:42 GMT -5
We are a patient bunch ...... soon giving out ...
"Forget planned obsolescence. The XMC-1 is completely modular and upgradable to meet future standards. All main system components can be upgraded as needed, while our custom Linux software assures expandability for years to come."
Yes timely was defined by Emotiva when they started printing a Time Table for the Upgrades to be available over a year ago of August 2017, and then they have republished the date of the upgrades almost every month since then ... The latest acording to Lonnie is the upgrade for Video will be available the end of Feb 2018 .... that s this month. .....
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Post by TyeDye on Feb 13, 2018 22:45:13 GMT -5
This is a quote from the current product page copied just 2 misn ago ..........
"The XMC-1 is a state-of-the-art modular home theater and surround sound audio processor designed to deliver the ultimate in sound quality. Every iteration updates to include the most essential new cutting-edge features available, and every generation is upgradeable to our latest standard. We believe that a truly great product is one you can enjoy today and for years to come, which is why our path for the XMC-1 is clear far into the future. With this and any Emotiva device, you’ll be able to enjoy your investment for a long, long time."
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 13, 2018 22:46:45 GMT -5
If you use the ARC in the 4K TV, is there a need for HDMI 2.0 on the XMC-1? Arc is not the answer .....  Of course its relevant .... We are missing out on a tremendous, beautiful 4K world .... The Promise / Slaes Pitch that persuaded m with my XMC1 purchase was the promise of Non Obsolesence .... The on line in writint promise was that we would recieve access to Timely updates as technology developed .... We are at least 1 year beyond that promise.  And I'm still hopeing the latest promise, that the Video upgrade will be available By end of Feb 2018 really hapens `..... well see .... If its not soon Audio reviewers and magazines and blogs will soon be saying "What has happened to Eomotiva's Promises ...The question is if it dosen't hapened should Emotiva buy back the broken promises .... of current Video and Audio non absolesence.  I would like to know how many purchasers of the XMC1 bought their units with the promise of fully modular upgrades on a timely schedule?  If you can plug the 4K source directly to the 4K tv and use ARC for the audio, wouldn’t that work? Why does the video need to go thru the processor.
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Post by TyeDye on Feb 13, 2018 23:07:23 GMT -5
Its just a subpar fix but it works ..... for one 4k source. with limitations. Why not have the PROMISED real thing.
Not meant for Lrc.
To the die hard uninformed ,,,,,,,,,,, Please .... If you are not energetic enough to email Emotiva management or read the current product pages Please Please dont just regurgitate nonsense as if you are knowledgeable. It just shows your lack of understanding and wastes serious peoples time.
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Post by davidl81 on Feb 13, 2018 23:20:15 GMT -5
Arc is not the answer ..... Of course its relevant .... We are missing out on a tremendous, beautiful 4K world .... The Promise / Slaes Pitch that persuaded m with my XMC1 purchase was the promise of Non Obsolesence .... The on line in writint promise was that we would recieve access to Timely updates as technology developed .... We are at least 1 year beyond that promise. And I'm still hopeing the latest promise, that the Video upgrade will be available By end of Feb 2018 really hapens `..... well see .... If its not soon Audio reviewers and magazines and blogs will soon be saying "What has happened to Eomotiva's Promises ...The question is if it dosen't hapened should Emotiva buy back the broken promises .... of current Video and Audio non absolesence. I would like to know how many purchasers of the XMC1 bought their units with the promise of fully modular upgrades on a timely schedule? If you can plug the 4K source directly to the 4K tv and use ARC for the audio, wouldn’t that work? Why does the video need to go thru the processor. I don’t know about all TVs with ARC, but my Sony XBR900E will only send a DD5.1 signal to the AVR via ARC. So you would miss out on any DTS-HD, Dolby True HD etc. Also my Sony only has 2 HDMI inputs that can accept a HDR input, but one of them is also the ARC HDMI. Since that is running to my AVR I can only use one of my HDR devices (4K Blu-Ray or AppleTV 4K)
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 14, 2018 0:40:02 GMT -5
If you can plug the 4K source directly to the 4K tv and use ARC for the audio, wouldn’t that work? Why does the video need to go thru the processor. ARC is limited to DD 5.1. On most Samsung TV's for ARC to work CEC needs to be turned on, which means a whole world of pain. My Sony 4K player has 2 outputs, one to the TV and one to the UMC-200. So Dolby True HD, DTS HD MA etc all available with 4K video . My ATV4K has only one output, so needs ARC (limited to DD5.1) My cable box also has only one output, so needs ARC (limited to DD5.1) As a result of the above, the switching required (TV, UMC-200, source and CEC pain) has very low WAF. A few days of complaints, I can live with A few weeks of complaints, I can just about tolerate A few months, now it's becoming intolerable A year ............. seriously Cheers Gary
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Post by cwt on Feb 14, 2018 2:03:20 GMT -5
Yes ;for anyone who requires a lossless codec over ARC for streaming services ; that requires E-ARC a feature of hdmi2.1 . Or maybe backwards compatible with hdmi2.0b?? A word on this would be nice [with the board so near ?] to help people decide on suitability ? Beta testers in lieu of Emo ; feel free to spill the beans A bit hard without hdmi2.1 TV's though
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Post by foggy1956 on Feb 14, 2018 7:16:43 GMT -5
This is a quote from the current product page copied just 2 misn ago .......... "The XMC-1 is a state-of-the-art modular home theater and surround sound audio processor designed to deliver the ultimate in sound quality. Every iteration updates to include the most essential new cutting-edge features available, and every generation is upgradeable to our latest standard. We believe that a truly great product is one you can enjoy today and for years to come, which is why our path for the XMC-1 is clear far into the future. With this and any Emotiva device, you’ll be able to enjoy your investment for a long, long time." Is cutting-edge the same as timely, cuz colonel kline said vehemently that they never mentioned timely, so don't infer timely😂
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 14, 2018 7:47:36 GMT -5
If you can plug the 4K source directly to the 4K tv and use ARC for the audio, wouldn’t that work? Why does the video need to go thru the processor. ARC is limited to DD 5.1. On most Samsung TV's for ARC to work CEC needs to be turned on, which means a whole world of pain. I see, I guess it depends on your tv. My LG C7P can do Dolby Atmos via ARC which is why I thought it would be a viable solution. Most streaming only need DD but I get it’s not ideal for Apple TV 4K.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 14, 2018 10:18:17 GMT -5
I would only change one slight detail in that excellent summary.... According to the current spec, ARC is actually part of your CEC functionality. So CEC always has to be enabled, at least partially, in order for ARC to work - on any brand of TV that follows the standard. (It sure seems silly to make it that way - but, hey, we didn't write the standard. ) If you can plug the 4K source directly to the 4K tv and use ARC for the audio, wouldn’t that work? Why does the video need to go thru the processor. ARC is limited to DD 5.1. On most Samsung TV's for ARC to work CEC needs to be turned on, which means a whole world of pain. My Sony 4K player has 2 outputs, one to the TV and one to the UMC-200. So Dolby True HD, DTS HD MA etc all available with 4K video . My ATV4K has only one output, so needs ARC (limited to DD5.1) My cable box also has only one output, so needs ARC (limited to DD5.1) As a result of the above, the switching required (TV, UMC-200, source and CEC pain) has very low WAF. A few days of complaints, I can live with A few weeks of complaints, I can just about tolerate A few months, now it's becoming intolerable A year ............. seriously Cheers Gary
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