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Post by yves on Apr 10, 2016 9:52:04 GMT -5
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Apr 10, 2016 9:56:18 GMT -5
Wildgoose, seeing that you are new member, welcome to the Lounge!!!  I've read through your intial post here and not quite sure if you have a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker setup? Either way I would have started with an XPA-5. In a 5.1 setup you'd be completely covered channel-wise and in a 7.1 setup you could be powering either the back or side surrounds with the receiver. |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 10, 2016 11:10:39 GMT -5
...Also the XSP-1 has bass management so your subs will work with both your DAC and receiever seamlessly. If you actually USE the bass management of the XMC-1 (or any other typical processor or AVR), you lose the advantages of direct mode. The bass management of the XMC-1 is digital, not analog. To do bass management, the processor has to convert the music from analog to digital, then do bass management, and then convert again from digital back to analog. Every conversion causes quality loss. The all-analog XSP-1 stereo preamplifier, however, does bass management in the analog domain with NO digital conversions, just as you say. ...Soon especially when blu ray 4k and 4k programming becomes the norm, anything that doesn't support HDMI 2 will be obsolete... And for this reason, I recommend NEVER running one's video through an AVR or a processor. Not only do video circuits become quickly obsolete as standards change, but also the RF noise from the video circuitry is likely to contaminate the audio signals. These days, with inexpensive disc players (that contain the latest video circuitry) and with "smart" TVs (that are often upgradable to the latest video circuitry), it makes no sense to put an expensive, quickly-obsolete processor or AVR in the middle of the two. Run video directly from the player to the TV or projector and run audio ONLY through the processor or AVR. Boom This is true the XSP-1 is analog in its bass management. I forgot to mention that. Regarding the video directly from player to TV, you can do it if the player has TWO HDMI outputs. Some like the upcoming Oppo will likely have two. However there will be others that don't . For instance the ROKU box or amazon fire tv or apple tv do not have two HDMIT outputs. If that's the case then it has to be run through the AVR if you are interested in surround sound. (The coax and toslink outputs that we are used to will not output blu ray surround sound in its native format. Usually it will be downmixed to stereo before output negating surround sound.) However even if the player has two HDMI outputs where you can run one to the tv and one to the AVR one misses out on the oncreen display that AVR's will overlay on the TV signal. FOr instance the XMC-1 has a big volume control that overlays on the TV. Other AVRs may have status and settings icons overlay on the TV. For this to work, the signal has to go from source to AVR to TV. So if you want surround sound and want your receiver/processor to work as it should with status displays on the TV the recourse is to have it current with current standards. There is a company called hdfury.com that has a unit for $200 that will allow older HDMI 1.4 4k capable units to work with HDMI 2 seamlessly. But there are legal issues and I believe it will quickly be banned.  |
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Post by yves on Apr 10, 2016 12:38:42 GMT -5
If you actually USE the bass management of the XMC-1 (or any other typical processor or AVR), you lose the advantages of direct mode. The bass management of the XMC-1 is digital, not analog. To do bass management, the processor has to convert the music from analog to digital, then do bass management, and then convert again from digital back to analog. Every conversion causes quality loss. The all-analog XSP-1 stereo preamplifier, however, does bass management in the analog domain with NO digital conversions, just as you say. And for this reason, I recommend NEVER running one's video through an AVR or a processor. Not only do video circuits become quickly obsolete as standards change, but also the RF noise from the video circuitry is likely to contaminate the audio signals. These days, with inexpensive disc players (that contain the latest video circuitry) and with "smart" TVs (that are often upgradable to the latest video circuitry), it makes no sense to put an expensive, quickly-obsolete processor or AVR in the middle of the two. Run video directly from the player to the TV or projector and run audio ONLY through the processor or AVR. Boom This is true the XSP-1 is analog in its bass management. I forgot to mention that. Regarding the video directly from player to TV, you can do it if the player has TWO HDMI outputs. Some like the upcoming Oppo will likely have two. However there will be others that don't . For instance the ROKU box or amazon fire tv or apple tv do not have two HDMIT outputs. If that's the case then it has to be run through the AVR if you are interested in surround sound. (The coax and toslink outputs that we are used to will not output blu ray surround sound in its native format. Usually it will be downmixed to stereo before output negating surround sound.) However even if the player has two HDMI outputs where you can run one to the tv and one to the AVR one misses out on the oncreen display that AVR's will overlay on the TV signal. FOr instance the XMC-1 has a big volume control that overlays on the TV. Other AVRs may have status and settings icons overlay on the TV. For this to work, the signal has to go from source to AVR to TV. So if you want surround sound and want your receiver/processor to work as it should with status displays on the TV the recourse is to have it current with current standards. There is a company called hdfury.com that has a unit for $200 that will allow older HDMI 1.4 4k capable units to work with HDMI 2 seamlessly. But there are legal issues and I believe it will quickly be banned. I am sure you already know what I am about to explain, but others might get a little bit confused about the part where you said, "To do bass management, the processor has to convert the music from analog to digital, then do bass management, and then convert again from digital back to analog." This only holds true if the *analog* inputs of the processor are in use (i.e., as opposed to HDMI input or coaxial S/PDIF input or optical S/PDIF or USB input being in use). |
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Post by hemster on Apr 10, 2016 14:18:45 GMT -5
This is true the XSP-1 is analog in its bass management. I forgot to mention that. Regarding the video directly from player to TV, you can do it if the player has TWO HDMI outputs. Some like the upcoming Oppo will likely have two. However there will be others that don't . For instance the ROKU box or amazon fire tv or apple tv do not have two HDMIT outputs. If that's the case then it has to be run through the AVR if you are interested in surround sound. (The coax and toslink outputs that we are used to will not output blu ray surround sound in its native format. Usually it will be downmixed to stereo before output negating surround sound.) However even if the player has two HDMI outputs where you can run one to the tv and one to the AVR one misses out on the oncreen display that AVR's will overlay on the TV signal. FOr instance the XMC-1 has a big volume control that overlays on the TV. Other AVRs may have status and settings icons overlay on the TV. For this to work, the signal has to go from source to AVR to TV. So if you want surround sound and want your receiver/processor to work as it should with status displays on the TV the recourse is to have it current with current standards. There is a company called hdfury.com that has a unit for $200 that will allow older HDMI 1.4 4k capable units to work with HDMI 2 seamlessly. But there are legal issues and I believe it will quickly be banned. I am sure you already know what I am about to explain, but others might get a little bit confused about the part where you said, "To do bass management, the processor has to convert the music from analog to digital, then do bass management, and then convert again from digital back to analog." This only holds true if the *analog* inputs of the processor are in use (i.e., as opposed to HDMI input or coaxial S/PDIF input or optical S/PDIF or USB input being in use). ...which would be the case if one were to use the Oppo's dedicated stereo output for example. Or 7.1 channel analog output. |
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Post by wildgoose on Apr 10, 2016 16:37:17 GMT -5
This thread is making me wanting the UMC-200.  But, looks like it was discontinued, and the only replacement is the $2500 XMC-1. This is a little strange, removing a $600 product and replace with a $2500 option. Or is there going to be a UMC-200 replacement at similar cost in the near future? |
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Post by teaman on Apr 10, 2016 16:58:10 GMT -5
This thread is making me wanting the UMC-200. But, looks like it was discontinued, and the only replacement is the $2500 XMC-1. This is a little strange, removing a $600 product and replace with a $2500 option. Or is there going to be a UMC-200 replacement at similar cost in the near future? They have already hinted there is a replacement in the works. Should be out shortly. |
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Post by wildgoose on Apr 10, 2016 16:59:44 GMT -5
Wildgoose, seeing that you are new member, welcome to the Lounge!!! I've read through your intial post here and not quite sure if you have a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker setup? Either way I would have started with an XPA-5. In a 5.1 setup you'd be completely covered channel-wise and in a 7.1 setup you could be powering either the back or side surrounds with the receiver. I have a 5.1 setup. I got the XPA-2 because Amazon has it with prime shipping, and without any experience with dedicated Amps I figured I would get the 'standard' one and see how it is. The XPA-5 is also not available. Reading some of the Amazon feedbacks, one thing that did catch my eye was some users reporting amp giving out smoke or burned out either soon or after a few month. Also there were mentioning of hearing some clicking noise when the amp is warming up. So after I got the amp, as part of my due diligence a sanity check, I opened up the top cover and examined the inside, just to see if anything is out of place or not tightened down properly that might cause heat expansion issues. (I am an engineer, I build my own PC, I figured this is just a giant pc and simply opening the cover and look at the inside should not cause any harm. Besides, I really wanted to admire the 70+ lb of amplifier awesomeness and see what it's made out of.. Happy to report nothing looks out of place and everything seems to be put together really well. In fact the inside looks really mean and cool. So I simply took some pics and closed the cover, ensuring I tighten the screws in a star like pattern. I've been using it since and it runs completely silent, no clicks or any issues. My plan was to see if I like it (I DO) and give it a few month as a test for Emotiva hardware reliability, then look at my options for the remaining channels. I could return this and get an XPA-5 later, but the unit is so nice I am just going to keep it. The only issue is this is a massive unit, fitting 2 of these could be challenging. I could get the XPA-100 mono block, amazon have it in stock for $399. That would cover the center channel and I think that's all I really need for my HT setup (the surrounds won't benefit much from an amp right? right? ) Will there be any XPA-5 gen2 for sale in the future? Or is everything going to be gen3 from now on? |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 10, 2016 17:01:13 GMT -5
...This only holds true if the *analog* inputs of the processor are in use (i.e., as opposed to HDMI input or coaxial S/PDIF input or optical S/PDIF or USB input being in use). True, but you CAN NOT GET from phono to bass management (with ANY processor or AVR) without conversions. The XSP-1 can do it, and all in the analog domain, but generally, one is SOL trying to use a phonograph with bass management. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 10, 2016 17:06:16 GMT -5
...Reading some of the Amazon feedbacks, one thing that did catch my eye was some users reporting amp giving out smoke or burned out either soon or after a few month. Also there were mentioning of hearing some clicking noise when the amp is warming up... Let's be clear - the amps that have an Amazon rep for unreliability are NOT the XPA-2. In fact, the XPA-2 has been the most "bulletproof" amp in the entire history of the company. The amps that have a rep for "clicking" are the (now discontinued) XPR series. The clicking noises are thermal expansion and do NOT affect the amps' reliabilities. As a rule of thumb, the more channels an amplifier has, the greater the likelihood of problems due to the additional complexity. Simple equals reliable, sometimes. Boom |
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Post by srpawski on Apr 10, 2016 18:15:04 GMT -5
I think this is also part of why the new Gen 3s are component built - not only for customization, but for sake of replacement should one channel tank its easy to swap out for a replacement blade and you are off and running.
I still can't decide if I personally want an XPA-5 or a new Gen 3. I am also new to the separate amp game and just joined the forum this week. I was initially going to just go with a 3 channel configured Gen 3 and call it good if I wasn't going to get an XPA-5. Then, the more I think about things, I am wondering if it should just get a 5 channel configured Gen 3. For the extra $600 I can justify doing it for the repair issues, however, by the time shipping costs to and from MI to TN are factored in both ways, I'm sure that will cost an extra $100 on top of the repair cost, so really at the end of the day I'm not so sure it's going to make that much of a difference. I would like to see some reviews of the Gen 3 vs the XPA-5 and frankly am surprised none have yet posted as folks should have started receiving them by now.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 10, 2016 18:27:55 GMT -5
Emotiva amps tend to be very reliable. The XPA-7 appears to have some random issues of power supply failure but it is a new amp that has been discotinued I believe. My UPA-2 was left turned on from the time I first recieved it. It is past its warranty with not a single hiccup. The click sound is due to the power supply expanding from heat. The PS is fastened by a single large nut to the amp and sometimes if this nut is too tight it will click as it expands. It is not hurting the amp. It can be fixed by loosening the screw by a quarter turn. It's rare to hear of failures in this forum. And when we do it usually happens that something else was going on too like a lightning storm or something else. A lot of the time it has to do with a loose RCA plug
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Post by KeithL on Apr 11, 2016 11:12:00 GMT -5
I would like to correct you on one thing.... The XSP-1 does NO DIGITAL PROCESSING OF THE AUDIO SIGNAL - AND THE SIGNAL PATH THROUGH THE VOLUME CONTROL ITSELF IS ANALOG. The audio signal is NEVER converted into digital - and there is no "active digital level matching" involved. The volume control in the XSP-1 is simply a passive network of lots of well-matched resistors, inside an integrated circuit, and controlled by analog switches (which are then operated by digital control circuitry). The "digital" part of the process is simply that a resistor network with several hundred steps would be impractical to build and operate without a digital control mechanism to switch between the steps - and this control mechanism controls the switches and accepts commands about what level to select from a processor - which accepts its instructions from the volume knob and tells you what it's doing on the display. (The XSP-1 has a processor, but none of the processing is in the analog signal path.) You should also note that the "bypass mode" on many processors really doesn't bypass ALL of the digital circuitry. (On some it simply switches off the front panel display, or disables part of the digital processing, but still requires that the analog inputs be converted into digital and back again. Most manufacturers are in fact quite honest about this; you just have to read the "fine print" carefully. Those that do bypass all of the digital processing usually make a point of mentioning it.) And, of course, on some low cost pre/pros and AVRs, it's distinctly possible that the analog circuitry is simply sub-standard as well - and sounds odd all on its own. Digital volume control works (generally) by truncating the signal. It throws away the bits that provide detail. The more the digital signal is attenuated, the greater the bit loss. Volume is best attenuated in the analog domain, after the digital to analog conversion is complete. This way, no digits are dropped. Some analog volume controls, like the one in Emotiva's XSP-1 attenuate in the analog domain, but use digital level matching to ensure channel-to-channel balance (something that "conventional log-taper wiper mechanisms are poor at). In other words, with a single stereo potentiometer (what most analog preamps use), the right channel may be a little louder at low volumes, the left channel may be a little louder at medium volumes, and both channels will be equal at very loud volumes. Using analog attenuation, but digital channel-matching is the best of both worlds. For casual listening, digital volume control may be OK, but it'll likely make your CD quality audio sound more like MP3. Most AVRs anymore DO offer a bypass mode that keeps most of the digital conversions & attenuations out of the signal path. it's called "direct mode" or something similar on most processors. In that mode, processors should offer 90% of the sound quality of a fully analog preamp. Why not 100%? Because the processor is still stuffed with computer, video, and digital processing circuitry that all emits radio frequency noise inside the processor. Inevitably, some bleeds into the analog signal & affects the sound quality. At this point, Mr. Levkof and Mr. Yohn will certainly jump in and point out that the RF noise is sufficiently attenuated that it shouldn't affect the analog sound. In theory, they're right. And I've heard some processors (the two that come to mind are the XPR-1 and a McIntosh) where I thought the unprocessed stereo sound WAS as good as a fully analog preamp. But those processors are the exceptions, not the rule. Most AV processors (and AV receivers) sound excessively bright and edgy to my ears. Am I just sensitive, or is it a generic flaw. I really don't know. The fact that ANY processor can be indistinguishable from an all-analog preamp is a definite proof of concept... So don't consider analog preamps in any way "inferior" to combination processors. They aren't. A good processor can keep up with an analog preamp, but not all are "good." Boom |
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Post by KeithL on Apr 11, 2016 11:24:14 GMT -5
I do want to respond to one thing you said..... Because HDMI 2.0 is just now becoming "the standard", the vast majority of A/V pre/pros and AVRs currently in use do not support it. (And, believe it or not, the majority of people who bought equipment before 2015 aren't willing to throw it all away and replace it this year.) Therefore, all of the new 4k source devices I know of offer the option of using separate HDMI outputs for audio and video (or multiple outputs which CAN be used that way). The video connection goes straight to the TV, while the audio connection goes to the pre/pro. (And the pre/pro doesn't need to be able to support either HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2, or even 4k video). And any of these devices will be able to be used with a 4k TV and ANY HDMI pre/pro or AVR that supports a recent version of HDMI (like HDMI 1.4a). Simply put, nobody is going to try to sell a TV, or a disc player, "that won't work with any equipment purchased before 2015" - at least not for the next several years. Incidentally, the same holds true for NEWER standards - like HDR, or HDR 12, or Dolby Vision HDR. You will be able to connect a cable directly between your 4k HDR Disc player and your 4k HDR TV and it will work - regardless of whether your pre/pro supports HDR, or Dolby Vision, or whatever new video format becomes available, as long as your player offers a separate HDMI output for audio. Of course, the drawback is that a separate cable to the TV will be required, and you will have to select your 4k/HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 source on both the TV's input menu and the pre/pros input menu. (And, if you use a programmable remote control, you may be able to program it to select both for you with one button.) ......................... But be warned...now the timing becomes more important than ever before. HDMI 2 is out right now! Most standalone processors DO NOT HAVE HDMI 2. This means that when HDMI 2 becomes the standard....like with blu ray 4k .... on your new HDMI 2 4k TV, you will see a blank screen if you use that processor. No picture, no sound. This likely is the case with your current reciever. There are ways around it but these work arounds are not ideal. Soon especially when blu ray 4k and 4k programming becomes the norm, anything that doesn't support HDMI 2 will be obsolete. It sounds fanciful but it will be similar to DVD vs blu ray. The old receivers that were built for DVD with composite inputs did not have HDMI. They are obsolete and cannot play Blu ray. So I would suggest to wait and purchase a standalone processor with HDMI 2 support. This is different from 4k support. It has to be 4k AND HDMI 2 if you want to not have your new expensive processor not be obsoleted. Emotiva plans to release new electronics soon. Hard to say when but it looks like you may not have long to wait. You may want to wait to see if there are any standalone HDMI 2 processors at a more reasonable price level for you. |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 11, 2016 11:49:48 GMT -5
I do want to respond to one thing you said..... Because HDMI 2.0 is just now becoming "the standard", the vast majority of A/V pre/pros and AVRs currently in use do not support it. (And, believe it or not, the majority of people who bought equipment before 2015 aren't willing to throw it all away and replace it this year.) Therefore, all of the new 4k source devices I know of offer the option of using separate HDMI outputs for audio and video (or multiple outputs which CAN be used that way). The video connection goes straight to the TV, while the audio connection goes to the pre/pro. (And the pre/pro doesn't need to be able to support either HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2, or even 4k video). And any of these devices will be able to be used with a 4k TV and ANY HDMI pre/pro or AVR that supports a recent version of HDMI (like HDMI 1.4a). Simply put, nobody is going to try to sell a TV, or a disc player, "that won't work with any equipment purchased before 2015" - at least not for the next several years. Incidentally, the same holds true for NEWER standards - like HDR, or HDR 12, or Dolby Vision HDR. You will be able to connect a cable directly between your 4k HDR Disc player and your 4k HDR TV and it will work - regardless of whether your pre/pro supports HDR, or Dolby Vision, or whatever new video format becomes available, as long as your player offers a separate HDMI output for audio. Of course, the drawback is that a separate cable to the TV will be required, and you will have to select your 4k/HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 source on both the TV's input menu and the pre/pros input menu. (And, if you use a programmable remote control, you may be able to program it to select both for you with one button.) ......................... But be warned...now the timing becomes more important than ever before. HDMI 2 is out right now! Most standalone processors DO NOT HAVE HDMI 2. This means that when HDMI 2 becomes the standard....like with blu ray 4k .... on your new HDMI 2 4k TV, you will see a blank screen if you use that processor. No picture, no sound. This likely is the case with your current reciever. There are ways around it but these work arounds are not ideal. Soon especially when blu ray 4k and 4k programming becomes the norm, anything that doesn't support HDMI 2 will be obsolete. It sounds fanciful but it will be similar to DVD vs blu ray. The old receivers that were built for DVD with composite inputs did not have HDMI. They are obsolete and cannot play Blu ray. So I would suggest to wait and purchase a standalone processor with HDMI 2 support. This is different from 4k support. It has to be 4k AND HDMI 2 if you want to not have your new expensive processor not be obsoleted. Emotiva plans to release new electronics soon. Hard to say when but it looks like you may not have long to wait. You may want to wait to see if there are any standalone HDMI 2 processors at a more reasonable price level for you. The 4k sources having two HDMI outs is not entirely correct. Both the HDMI 2 Roku 2 and the HDMI 2 Fire TV have only a single HDMI 2 port. This will lead to a black screen if you try to route through a non HDMI 2 reciever. They are also right now the more affordable HDMI 2 sources out there so they will be popular sellers. For the products that do have dual HDMI out however if you use it you will not see onscreen volume control displays of the AVR on the TV. |
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Post by foggy1956 on Apr 11, 2016 11:59:33 GMT -5
I do want to respond to one thing you said..... Because HDMI 2.0 is just now becoming "the standard", the vast majority of A/V pre/pros and AVRs currently in use do not support it. (And, believe it or not, the majority of people who bought equipment before 2015 aren't willing to throw it all away and replace it this year.) Therefore, all of the new 4k source devices I know of offer the option of using separate HDMI outputs for audio and video (or multiple outputs which CAN be used that way). The video connection goes straight to the TV, while the audio connection goes to the pre/pro. (And the pre/pro doesn't need to be able to support either HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2, or even 4k video). And any of these devices will be able to be used with a 4k TV and ANY HDMI pre/pro or AVR that supports a recent version of HDMI (like HDMI 1.4a). Simply put, nobody is going to try to sell a TV, or a disc player, "that won't work with any equipment purchased before 2015" - at least not for the next several years. Incidentally, the same holds true for NEWER standards - like HDR, or HDR 12, or Dolby Vision HDR. You will be able to connect a cable directly between your 4k HDR Disc player and your 4k HDR TV and it will work - regardless of whether your pre/pro supports HDR, or Dolby Vision, or whatever new video format becomes available, as long as your player offers a separate HDMI output for audio. Of course, the drawback is that a separate cable to the TV will be required, and you will have to select your 4k/HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 source on both the TV's input menu and the pre/pros input menu. (And, if you use a programmable remote control, you may be able to program it to select both for you with one button.) The 4k sources having two HDMI outs is not entirely correct. Both the HDMI 2 Roku 2 and the HDMI 2 Fire TV have only a single HDMI 2 port. This will lead to a black screen if you try to route through a non HDMI 2 reciever. They are also right now the more affordable HDMI 2 sources out there so they will be popular sellers. For the products that do have dual HDMI out however if you use it you will not see onscreen volume control displays of the AVR on the TV. Also the auto lip sync feature such as that on the xmc-1 is useless. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 11, 2016 13:06:03 GMT -5
This thread is making me wanting the UMC-200. But, looks like it was discontinued, and the only replacement is the $2500 XMC-1. This is a little strange, removing a $600 product and replace with a $2500 option. Or is there going to be a UMC-200 replacement at similar cost in the near future? They have already hinted there is a replacement in the works. Should be out shortly. Right, I might wait to see what the Emotiva BasX processor brings to the table. |
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Post by KeithL on Apr 11, 2016 13:27:57 GMT -5
Actually, as far as we know (according to the standard), when a device explicitly provides separate audio and video outputs, the auto-lip-sync meta-data should be handled correctly - and so the auto-lip-sync feature should work as intended. (Note that we're talking about a source device that is designed specifically so that it can be configured to send audio and video out via two different HDMI outputs; we're not talking about sending one output through "a dumb splitter".) The 4k sources having two HDMI outs is not entirely correct. Both the HDMI 2 Roku 2 and the HDMI 2 Fire TV have only a single HDMI 2 port. This will lead to a black screen if you try to route through a non HDMI 2 reciever. They are also right now the more affordable HDMI 2 sources out there so they will be popular sellers. For the products that do have dual HDMI out however if you use it you will not see onscreen volume control displays of the AVR on the TV. Also the auto lip sync feature such as that on the xmc-1 is useless. |
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Post by KeithL on Apr 11, 2016 13:46:38 GMT -5
Actually, while I agree that the Roku 4 and Amazon Fire will probably have their fans, I disagree that they are "the most popular 4k sources out there". I took home our Roku 4, and it did in fact work very well - however, since my new Samsung TV supports both Amazon Prime Video and Netflix internally anyway, I can't imagine I'll be buying a Roku any time soon - or ever. Since all the 4k TVs I've seen so far are "Smart TVs", and so do their own video streaming, I suspect that the single most popular 4k source out there will probably be "the TV". And I'm guessing that the second most popular source will be whatever 4k disc player you happen to buy - because they'll all almost certainly support the most popular streaming clients as well. And then, of course, there's always ARC. So, while I do agree that support for HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 is "an important feature", and support for it on multiple inputs will be nice to have, I'm not losing too much sleep over it just yet. (But, yes, the HDMI 2.0 card WILL be available real soon.) I do want to respond to one thing you said..... Because HDMI 2.0 is just now becoming "the standard", the vast majority of A/V pre/pros and AVRs currently in use do not support it. (And, believe it or not, the majority of people who bought equipment before 2015 aren't willing to throw it all away and replace it this year.) Therefore, all of the new 4k source devices I know of offer the option of using separate HDMI outputs for audio and video (or multiple outputs which CAN be used that way). The video connection goes straight to the TV, while the audio connection goes to the pre/pro. (And the pre/pro doesn't need to be able to support either HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2, or even 4k video). And any of these devices will be able to be used with a 4k TV and ANY HDMI pre/pro or AVR that supports a recent version of HDMI (like HDMI 1.4a). Simply put, nobody is going to try to sell a TV, or a disc player, "that won't work with any equipment purchased before 2015" - at least not for the next several years. Incidentally, the same holds true for NEWER standards - like HDR, or HDR 12, or Dolby Vision HDR. You will be able to connect a cable directly between your 4k HDR Disc player and your 4k HDR TV and it will work - regardless of whether your pre/pro supports HDR, or Dolby Vision, or whatever new video format becomes available, as long as your player offers a separate HDMI output for audio. Of course, the drawback is that a separate cable to the TV will be required, and you will have to select your 4k/HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 source on both the TV's input menu and the pre/pros input menu. (And, if you use a programmable remote control, you may be able to program it to select both for you with one button.) The 4k sources having two HDMI outs is not entirely correct. Both the HDMI 2 Roku 2 and the HDMI 2 Fire TV have only a single HDMI 2 port. This will lead to a black screen if you try to route through a non HDMI 2 reciever. They are also right now the more affordable HDMI 2 sources out there so they will be popular sellers. For the products that do have dual HDMI out however if you use it you will not see onscreen volume control displays of the AVR on the TV. |
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Post by yves on Apr 11, 2016 15:42:32 GMT -5
I do want to respond to one thing you said..... Because HDMI 2.0 is just now becoming "the standard", the vast majority of A/V pre/pros and AVRs currently in use do not support it. (And, believe it or not, the majority of people who bought equipment before 2015 aren't willing to throw it all away and replace it this year.) Therefore, all of the new 4k source devices I know of offer the option of using separate HDMI outputs for audio and video (or multiple outputs which CAN be used that way). The video connection goes straight to the TV, while the audio connection goes to the pre/pro. (And the pre/pro doesn't need to be able to support either HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2, or even 4k video). And any of these devices will be able to be used with a 4k TV and ANY HDMI pre/pro or AVR that supports a recent version of HDMI (like HDMI 1.4a). Simply put, nobody is going to try to sell a TV, or a disc player, "that won't work with any equipment purchased before 2015" - at least not for the next several years. Incidentally, the same holds true for NEWER standards - like HDR, or HDR 12, or Dolby Vision HDR. You will be able to connect a cable directly between your 4k HDR Disc player and your 4k HDR TV and it will work - regardless of whether your pre/pro supports HDR, or Dolby Vision, or whatever new video format becomes available, as long as your player offers a separate HDMI output for audio. Of course, the drawback is that a separate cable to the TV will be required, and you will have to select your 4k/HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 source on both the TV's input menu and the pre/pros input menu. (And, if you use a programmable remote control, you may be able to program it to select both for you with one button.) ......................... But be warned...now the timing becomes more important than ever before. HDMI 2 is out right now! Most standalone processors DO NOT HAVE HDMI 2. This means that when HDMI 2 becomes the standard....like with blu ray 4k .... on your new HDMI 2 4k TV, you will see a blank screen if you use that processor. No picture, no sound. This likely is the case with your current reciever. There are ways around it but these work arounds are not ideal. Soon especially when blu ray 4k and 4k programming becomes the norm, anything that doesn't support HDMI 2 will be obsolete. It sounds fanciful but it will be similar to DVD vs blu ray. The old receivers that were built for DVD with composite inputs did not have HDMI. They are obsolete and cannot play Blu ray. So I would suggest to wait and purchase a standalone processor with HDMI 2 support. This is different from 4k support. It has to be 4k AND HDMI 2 if you want to not have your new expensive processor not be obsoleted. Emotiva plans to release new electronics soon. Hard to say when but it looks like you may not have long to wait. You may want to wait to see if there are any standalone HDMI 2 processors at a more reasonable price level for you. To be able to select your source on both the TV's input menu and the pre/pro's input menu with just a single button press, instead of using a programmable remote control, www.cepro.com/article/the_miracle_of_hdmi_cec_2.0_brought_to_life_by_pulse_eight_at_ise_2016 |
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I've read through your intial post here and not quite sure if you have a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker setup? Either way I would have started with an XPA-5. In a 5.1 setup you'd be completely covered channel-wise and in a 7.1 setup you could be powering either the back or side surrounds with the receiver. 
But, looks like it was discontinued, and the only replacement is the $2500 XMC-1. This is a little strange, removing a $600 product and replace with a $2500 option.
