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Post by leonski on May 12, 2016 2:57:19 GMT -5
Now that EMO has access to the B&O modules, it should be possible to build a VERY high end speaker using the ASC and AC modules in a speaker. A line level input will be what it takes.
Given the power possible with these new modules, a 3-way floor stander should be a no-brainer. Don't forget, that for a 3-way speaker, you don't really need 3 amps. You have a bass amp and cross at 300 to 400hz. The new amp takes over and you have a speaker level crossover between the mid and tweet.
Use the ASC300 and the AC300 which can be powered from the ASC. This combo yields about 300 8ohm watts per speaker.
Even the combination of the 200ASC and 200AC will give OVER 200 8ohm watts per speaker. At sensitivity rating of 89db or greater, that's a LOT of juice.
ONE power cord
ONE line level input. per speaker.
See if it can be done for 1200 to 1500 per pair. That's a REAL sweet spot. If you use Focal or ScanSpeak drivers? Maybe later ADD small stand mounts and a Center channel. That'll hopefully maintain a 'house sound' which eases system matching.
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Post by Axis on May 12, 2016 7:31:16 GMT -5
I was surprised when they announced the new Airmotiv passive towers that they did not also have a powered version with the same 200 watts class A/B amplification that is in the Stealth 8.
On top of speakers being powered/active with either the class A/B amps or B&O modules, being wireless like Focal and klipsch are doing would be smart. I can hear everyone saying wireless sucks, but does it ? There has been some updates to wireless lately. With amplification in each speaker and no more speaker wires that have to go across the room for those surrounds you get WAF. Small back surrounds on stands behind the couch with a single power cord going to the wall. Same with big floor towers, center channel and subwoofers. You have a Pre/pro that talks to each speaker independently as a particular surround channel. That Pre/pro does not have to be big. No need for all those output connections.
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Post by Hair Nick on May 12, 2016 8:35:01 GMT -5
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Post by leonski on May 12, 2016 12:32:38 GMT -5
I was surprised when they announced the new Airmotiv passive towers that they did not also have a powered version with the same 200 watts class A/B amplification that is in the Stealth 8. On top of speakers being powered/active with either the class A/B amps or B&O modules, being wireless like Focal and klipsch are doing would be smart. I can hear everyone saying wireless sucks, but does it ? There has been some updates to wireless lately. With amplification in each speaker and no more speaker wires that have to go across the room for those surrounds you get WAF. Small back surrounds on stands behind the couch with a single power cord going to the wall. Same with big floor towers, center channel and subwoofers. You have a Pre/pro that talks to each speaker independently as a particular surround channel. That Pre/pro does not have to be big. No need for all those output connections. I hadn't thought about wireless. From the BlueTooth end of things, the APT-X 'codec' or system or whatever it is, has what is currently the highest fidelity of wireless systems. That'd turn back channel speakers into a single plug solution. And nothing wrong with a SINGLE amp in a 2-way speaker, either, for that matter. People may not like it, but 'fidelity' in a HT system is sort of academic, anyway. Nobody knows what most of that stuff (effects) are supposed to actually SOUND like. Loud usually works. I don't know what amps are used in the Airmotiv series, but EMO having access to the B&O ASC / AC series is very interesting and has possibilities. |
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bootman
Emo VIPs 
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
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Post by bootman on May 12, 2016 13:22:56 GMT -5
...or create streaming atmos/suround speakers for easy placement options.
That would be a unique product idea if they can get around the timing. (companies do it now)
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Post by Wideawake on May 12, 2016 14:03:58 GMT -5
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Post by garbulky on May 12, 2016 14:07:24 GMT -5
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Post by Axis on May 12, 2016 16:59:28 GMT -5
The class A/B amplifiers that are used in the Stealth and Airmotiv powered monitors are very good ! I got news for everyone. Emotiva makes great amplifiers !  10 or 15 yrs ago many would have thought Emotiva could not pull off something like the XMC-1. What I read is no matter who makes it or what it cost the Tech and Build currently can't be beat. I see Emotiva possibly designing there own in house wireless system if they go that path. I see companies advancing technology in Audio everyday. Look what small companies are doing with headphone drivers using nanotechnology. Look what Schiit has been doing with the marriage of tubes and solid state. DAC architecture is changing like Chord's Pulse Array and Schiit's closed-form multibit. Wireless like Bluetooth and Sony's LDAC codec high-quality wireless streaming via Bluetooth seem to be just the beginning. What's around the corner and could a little company like Emotiva come up with the next thing? Maybe they do not have too but they use it in there products in ways not used yet. This wireless home theater that does not look or sound like a toy and cost a fortune is just the thing for a company like Emotiva to build. I have read polls on how many people have surround in there home and I do not believe them. There is a young couple with kids that I know that I have tried to give one too but they refuse because of wires. Seriously ! Hair Nick something wrong with your eye ?  |
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Post by leonski on May 12, 2016 20:44:31 GMT -5
Right NOW, it would appear EMO is SIMPLIFYING things. They'll be making a MODULE for insertion from 1 to 7 in a fixed chassis. That minimizes production costs and gives 'em leverage.
Access to B&O ICE ASC / AC modules is another avenue.
Using existing stuff in a powered speaker is a real money saver. Inventing your OWN wireless system? Costly. Sony has eaten it MORE than once with 'proprietary'. And Sony is HUGE.
I'll repeat that I don't know what amps are used in the Airmotiv speakers, especially the Stealth 8 which is 200x2. No sensitivity given. The tweeter looks like an AMT tweeter.
Looking at what is available and at what cost, I don't know that EMO could ALSO forge a connection with SEAS or SCAN SPEAK or FOCAL for some major premium drivers for a line of well placed Powered speakers.
I don't know that Dynaudio sells drivers OEM, any more.
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Post by Axis on May 12, 2016 21:58:36 GMT -5
Please read this review from September 2013 of the Stealth 8 speakers. www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/newbay/mix_201309/index.php?startid=64Emotiva develops there own drivers. leonski, Emotiva already makes a Powered Active crossover speaker for $1500 a pair that competes with $10,000 a pair Powered Active crossover speakers. |
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Post by Axis on May 12, 2016 22:52:53 GMT -5
Right NOW, it would appear EMO is SIMPLIFYING things. They'll be making a MODULE for insertion from 1 to 7 in a fixed chassis. That minimizes production costs and gives 'em leverage. Access to B&O ICE ASC / AC modules is another avenue. Using existing stuff in a powered speaker is a real money saver. Inventing your OWN wireless system? Costly. Sony has eaten it MORE than once with 'proprietary'. And Sony is HUGE. I'll repeat that I don't know what amps are used in the Airmotiv speakers, especially the Stealth 8 which is 200x2. No sensitivity given. The tweeter looks like an AMT tweeter. Looking at what is available and at what cost, I don't know that EMO could ALSO forge a connection with SEAS or SCAN SPEAK or FOCAL for some major premium drivers for a line of well placed Powered speakers. I don't know that Dynaudio sells drivers OEM, any more. I did not mean to imply that they would need to invent new wireless technology but there is more to it than transmitting and receiving. There would be no need to use DTS Play-Fi or others management system. Check out klipsch wireless system. They have there own wireless hub system and you select on the speaker the position for that speaker so the hub transmits just that channel information to that speaker. Scroll down to read about the Hub. www.klipsch.com/products/reference-premiere-hd-wirelessAs far as for the specs on class A/B amplification modules that Emotiva puts inside there Airmotiv 3B, 4S, 5S, 6S, Stealth 6 and Stealth 8 all I can say is they sound very good in my Airmotiv 5S and could care less the specs. I would buy the class A/B amplification modules in a set of Airmotiv tower speakers in a heart beat. I figure from all the reviews I have read were everyone that has heard them loves them, they would too. I figure they are using the B&O ICE modules in the new Emersa line for technical reasons that is over my head. I would think they would want to keep heat down in a unit that is possibly being placed in an enclosure. They have strict warnings to keep the back of the Stealth and Airmotiv speakers out of enclosures and plenty of air space around them for heat damage reasons. Emotiva's woven polypropylene and now woven Kevlar drivers are something to hear. Once everyone hears there AMT tweeter they are hooked and plan dome tweeters do not compare. There are domes that do and other types of tweeters but Emotiva AMT's need to be heard to be believed. |
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Post by leonski on May 13, 2016 1:21:03 GMT -5
I keep forgetting that many if not MOST folks on these forums are HT users. That's why 5 channel amps sell like hotcakes and the new series of amps with a 'pick your number of channels' will also work. If it had the features, I'd be tempted with a 4 channel version for biamp duties.
Any wireless system MUST take that stuff into account. The stereo wireless I've seen at shows from the likes of AUDIOENGINE looks to be both flexible and 'hi fidelity'.
Yes the AMT tweeter is well regarded. It might still have a reputation for being fragile, however, with poor tolerance for distortion and overdrive.
Believe it or NOT, one of the better tweeters in Budget Speakers was the LINAEUM mounted in several RS offerings. You can get 'em on Epray if you are DIY inclined.
The BEST tweeter you can get, IMO is the RIBBON found in Magnepan speakers. It has very extended response and terrific power handling. Magnepan will sell you a rebuild kit OR 'exchange' tweeters. They DO go out and are considered protection for the FUSE in the circuit. The fuse? Serves no apparent purpose.
Converting powered speakers to the 'D' amp will cut heat drastically, especially at high levels where the efficiency of such amps is at maximum. And not to forget, the ASC series has a power supply on-board that will ALSO run another module from the AC series. Talk about SIMPLE. Input circuitry can be added for HF or LF attenuation and general level control.
As for buying certain drivers? The names I mentioned are the tops currently selling ala-carte. If EMO were interested in an All-Out assault on a 1000 EACH speaker, they could do a LOT worse.
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Post by Axis on May 13, 2016 1:41:48 GMT -5
Yes the AMT tweeter is well regarded. It might still have a reputation for being fragile, however, with poor tolerance for distortion and overdrive. These AMT tweeters are designed and made by Emotiva for Emotiva speakers. There is no distortion in them and they are not fragile. I highly recommend you have a listen to there new line of Airmotiv and Stealth powered monitors. |
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Post by leonski on May 13, 2016 3:03:46 GMT -5
The orignal was designed and patented by a guy last name HEIL. The first I saw of 'em in the US was the ESS AMT-1 and later other models by the same company. This would have been in the 70s.
Depending on the state of the patents (at least 5 or 6 of 'em) EMO is probably paying royalties and having them 'custom made' to spec.
A buddy of mine HAD some that were fine, until the ENTIRE neighborhood burned down in a SoCal FIRE. Ever seen a MELTED car? He lived on an Indian Reservation and I guess fire insurance was either Unavailable or massively expensive.
Please read what I wrote, I hope I was clear. Overdrive AND distortion go together. Everything is FINE until you reach that point.
If you ever get the urge, find a Magnepan dealer and audition any of the 3 series or 20 series. All of 'em had ribbons, even the early models.
I'm not in the market for new speakers and have no way to hear any of the EMO speakers. I've been a panel owner for 35 years or so!
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Post by Axis on May 13, 2016 3:41:56 GMT -5
The orignal was designed and patented by a guy last name HEIL. The first I saw of 'em in the US was the ESS AMT-1 and later other models by the same company. This would have been in the 70s. Depending on the state of the patents (at least 5 or 6 of 'em) EMO is probably paying royalties and having them 'custom made' to spec. A buddy of mine HAD some that were fine, until the ENTIRE neighborhood burned down in a SoCal FIRE. Ever seen a MELTED car? He lived on an Indian Reservation and I guess fire insurance was either Unavailable or massively expensive. Please read what I wrote, I hope I was clear. Overdrive AND distortion go together. Everything is FINE until you reach that point. If you ever get the urge, find a Magnepan dealer and audition any of the 3 series or 20 series. All of 'em had ribbons, even the early models. I'm not in the market for new speakers and have no way to hear any of the EMO speakers. I've been a panel owner for 35 years or so! From 1978 to 1982 I was a B-52 crew chief. That is the loudest aircraft in the world ! I lost some of my hearing those years and the next 17 years as a jet engine mech. I was 300 yards from a B-52 when it blew up. It was tail # 209 and the speakers in that B-52 were circa 1958. I lost those speakers in that explosion and fire. Ever seen a MELTED B-52 ? Do not Overdrive your speakers and they will not distort ! Take care of your hearing. Mine is not that great but I still do not play them so loud that they overdrive and distort. I just noticed the Stealth 8's are in stock. They will be my new 2 channel speakers. I am getting the new passive Airmotiv's for my surround system when they come out. All because I love the Airmotiv 5S's so much. People really do need to hear these AMT tweeters. |
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Post by leonski on May 13, 2016 11:47:50 GMT -5
With 8x TF-33s I'm certain it's as loud as a person can take. I heard a CONCORD at Air America airshow in 1988 at Brown Field. Some IDIOT ran out on the runway as they turned onto FINAL. He was looking for that special photograph, I guess. The Concord flew past the stands at 100 feet, nose down and had to power up to GO AROUND for a 2nd try. Talk about LOUD. Even louder than the Harriers I've heard at other airshows. Or even F-4s which are required to use 'burners @ takeoff.
But overall, I take reasonable care of my hearing. I use FITTED ($$) earplugs when doing woodwork or shooting.
My brother has some AF stories, but nothing like a complete aircraft meltdown.
For the 1500$ / pair ASK, you must of course recognize how HOT a segment you're in. The competition is Brutal. And lots of people ALREADY have amps so going to powered speakers requires a rethink. Also, I'm not sure just how long a run with single ended (most users) you can practically make. Balanced will of course, be the 'pro' choice. But those cables can REALLY run up some coin. I use Mogami for the one run I need.
Countless builders are ready at the 1000$ / pair level. And EMO would be more than happy to ship you a nice amp. I'm personally waiting on details of the integrated I was promised.
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Post by Wideawake on May 13, 2016 13:04:15 GMT -5
I wouldn't waste money on name brand cables. Use that extra "coin" for equipment instead. XLR cables can be bought for about $0.75 a foot. Also, I'm not sure just how long a run with single ended (most users) you can practically make. Balanced will of course, be the 'pro' choice. But those cables can REALLY run up some coin. I use Mogami for the one run I need. |
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Post by goodfellas27 on May 13, 2016 13:11:14 GMT -5
I always see their demo using Polk's LSiM707. Great speakers.
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Post by leonski on May 13, 2016 15:27:12 GMT -5
Mogami is NOT wacky priced. I bought my 6 foot pair at Guitar Center for 90$ or so. Not egregious.
Mogami is ALSO the overwhelming choice in Recording Studios where quality, reliability and sonics COUNT.
I buy for value and measurables. Given that balanced has some INHERENT advantages, I don't worry about most of the measurables.
I'm not a 'flavor of the day' kind of listener. I am willing to pay a LITTLE more for a quality build and good cable.
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Post by Axis on May 13, 2016 21:31:09 GMT -5
With 8x TF-33s I'm certain it's as loud as a person can take. I heard a CONCORD at Air America airshow in 1988 at Brown Field. Some IDIOT ran out on the runway as they turned onto FINAL. He was looking for that special photograph, I guess. The Concord flew past the stands at 100 feet, nose down and had to power up to GO AROUND for a 2nd try. Talk about LOUD. Even louder than the Harriers I've heard at other airshows. Or even F-4s which are required to use 'burners @ takeoff. But overall, I take reasonable care of my hearing. I use FITTED ($$) earplugs when doing woodwork or shooting. My brother has some AF stories, but nothing like a complete aircraft meltdown. For the 1500$ / pair ASK, you must of course recognize how HOT a segment you're in. The competition is Brutal. And lots of people ALREADY have amps so going to powered speakers requires a rethink. Also, I'm not sure just how long a run with single ended (most users) you can practically make. Balanced will of course, be the 'pro' choice. But those cables can REALLY run up some coin. I use Mogami for the one run I need. Countless builders are ready at the 1000$ / pair level. And EMO would be more than happy to ship you a nice amp. I'm personally waiting on details of the integrated I was promised. We had B-52G models with Pratt & Whitney J57's. They were strait turbojets. I remember seeing in the 80's that they replacing the engines with a big turbofan's with a huge first stage intake and compressor section that also produced thrust thru around the front cowling. Our Pratt & Whitney J57's injected 1200 gallons of demineralized water into the intakes to create the extra thrust needed for take off when fully loaded and when that water hit those fans the rumble that would come out is indescribable. I remember seeing the turbofan engines with there big intakes and thinking they looked very comfortable. One of a crew chief's job after a flight is to climb into the engine inlet and slowly turn the rotor blades and inspect the rotor and stator blade leading edges for nicks from foreign object damage. If you find small ones you file them down. If they are very big the engine will need to come off and go to the engine shop for repair. You would easily sit curled up in one inlet for an hour for a good inspection. Here is the only incident report I could find on #209. The crew chief that was onboard was transferring fuel out of the aft center body tank and left the sump pump running too long in a dry tank. It overheated and the fact that the tank was empty caused the explosion. Vapor's in an empty container are much more explosive than a container that is full of fuel. He survived with severe burns. aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=48382My old B-52G holds 305,000 lbs. of jet fuel. Depending on the time of year 1 gal of jet fuel weighs 6.4 or 6.5 lbs.. Do the math. A fully loaded Buff will use 30,000 lbs. of fuel and those 1200 gals of water for take off. Have no ideal what the new ones do but still takes a bunch of fuel to operate one. Did you notice they are using them in Iraq and Syria. They can stay up for 78 hours with in flight refueling. |
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