"All CD Players sound the same"

[jdubs]

Pardon me if this has been hashed out here. I belong to a group called "Audiophiles on a Budget" on Facebook. Someone posted about wanting a new CD player because his "cheap Sony bluray/DVD player" didn't sound good. There were some reasonable suggestions ( mine included), but there were also a ton of guys jumping on the suggestions that none of it matters.

One person linked to a lengthy discussion on AVS forums and it was all just a bunch of arguing even though it was ostensibly about finding actual double blind studies.

I argued, without any facts on my side, that surely build quality, DAC chipsets, power supply, chassis, etc are going to have an effect. Is that my predisposition of "you get what you pay for" or is there actually science that shows this?

[wilburthegoose]

I subscribed to that group for a while, but quit after a week. Those people think a 1970-era solid-state stereo sounds great because it's cheap and they bought it at Goodwill. I wouldn't take anything posted there seriously.

[harri009]

May 20, 2016 18:26:07 GMT -5 wilburthegoose said:

I subscribed to that group for a while, but quit after a week. Those people think a 1970-era solid-state stereo sounds great because it's cheap and they bought it at Goodwill. I wouldn't take anything posted there seriously.

I did the same thing with that group.


If you have ever heard an Ayre C5xeMp you know that not all CD players sound the same. Actually a great demo would be to go to Walmart and buy the cheapest DVD/CD player you can get, should be about $25. Play a cd thought the stereo and tell me if you don't rip it out of the system in under 20 min. I bought one when me and my wife moved for my job. We were staying in a pay by the week hotel until we could close on a house we found. During that time I picked up one of those $25 players to watch movies in our room. When we closed on the house I got the stereo all hooked up and decided I wanted to try out the CD player in the big system. It lasted about 10 min. Now I am not saying you have to buy a $6000 player to beat that $25 one. In fact the Emotiva ERC is a very nice player and would easily show the difference.

[vneal]

I would add any current Meridian players to that short list. The Oppo 105D is good not great

[Loop 7]

Correct, all CD players do sound identical as do all DACS, amplifiers and speakers. They all sound the same.

[novisnick]

May 20, 2016 19:51:59 GMT -5 Loop 7 said:

Correct, all CD players do sound identical as do all DACS, amplifiers and speakers. They all sound the same.

You even sound like my wife!!    

[LCSeminole]

If you use the analog outputs/DAC in the CD player, then yes there is going to be a difference. If only using as a transport using its optical/coax output to a DAC, then no difference.

[Perpendicular]

I say it's great and much better asking in a Forum such as the Emotiva Lounge than AVS. In my opinion, AVS has really gone down hill within the past few years. Everyone on there pretends to be a know-it-all and matters have only gotten worse since the new ownership. I don't Post much anymore and only frequent there for the movie reviews. My advice would be to choose a player based on that particular person's needs. I highly recommend anything from OPPO.Digital. I own many of their players including the latest BDP-105 and BDP-105D players.

[teaman]

I had joined a few of the Facebook sites too and left within a week. As soon as you chime in about twenty "regulars" attack you. No thanks.

As far as the CD players go I find subtle but present differences between almost every player. I really have come to love the sound of my ERC's though.

[klinemj]

May 20, 2016 18:10:00 GMT -5 jdubs said:

I argued, without any facts on my side, that surely build quality, DAC chipsets, power supply, chassis, etc are going to have an effect. Is that my predisposition of "you get what you pay for" or is there actually science that shows this?

I don't think the "you get what you pay for" is right. I have heard very pricey stuff sound OK and modest priced stuff sound great. The DC-1 is a great example. But even at "respectable" levels of DAC's, I can hear important differences. I like my DC-1 over my Oppo 105's sound. I like both over cheap Blu-ray players. I am auditioning a new DAC and I think I like it over my xmc.

Is there science to show it? Maybe...i have not really looked. But I hear clear differences. And I really don't want to!

Mark

[garbulky]

Is science on the subjective "there is a difference" side? No I don't think it is. Or at least the popular intepretations of science is. For instance I find it weird that thd and snr and frequency response appear to be the way that the sound is the same-ness is judged. I doubt I could tell a difference between any of the very respectable figures that these gear put out.
BUT.......................

Do CD players, DACs, amps, even preampsetc sound the same to me? No. But there are a lot of reasons why they could sound the same subjectively to others as well. So what's the reason? I don't know. But better gear does sound better. Whatever that "better" gear is.

[yves]

The main reasons why there are no *real* double-blind listening test results to show that those audible differences truly exist are as follows. First and foremost, double-blind listening tests are extremely hard to design and conduct. They're very resource heavy, they're incredibly time consuming, there's often a huge risk involved that results will turn out inconclusive anyway, and, even if they don't turn out inconclusive... they still don't tell you if the one that sounded different sounded better, or how much better. Double-blind listening tests are used by real scientists who have a thorough understanding of both psychoacoustics and statistics. To summarize, those who keep insisting on trying to make you believe that you reliably can get answers by conducting a simple (i.e., hobbyist........) ABX test at home are most likely just shills on the internet who want to push cheap inferior mass produced audio products and music streaming services revolving around lossy codecs / standard CD quality sound (as opposed to high resolution, high end digital audio). Those people never give you the true scientific explanations why their (typically invalid) test results show a systemic inconclusiveness. The explanation they [those people] are trying to force you to believe is based on their own biased assumptions that are perpendicular to everything science related. Those people are called ABXers.

https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1116-3-201502-I!!PDF-E.pdf (in this document, please refer to section 6 titled "Programme material", and then please tell me, which ABXer you know follows these recommendations?)

www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/tas-194-meridian-audios-bob-stuart-talks-with-robert-harley-1 (an interview article going into a few specifics on what listening comparisons can and can't be used for, and why)

www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=17497 (currently the *only* awarded "Best Peer-Reviewed Paper" AES Convention Paper in the category of Perception, showing digital filters representative of modern filter applications used in 44.1 kHz sampling are inadequate)

www.audiostream.com/content/blind-testing-golden-ears-and-envy-oh-my (an article that captures the essence of what's been going on)

[jdubs]

Yves, thanks for the links!