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Post by qdtjni on Jul 8, 2016 11:47:50 GMT -5
Now, I also noticed that it supports several "modes", like Squeezeserver, which most definitely are NOT bit perfect. Where did you get that idea because it is simply false. Really..... It supports Squeezeserver - which may or may not be bit-perfect - depending on how it's configured. Exactly, quite a bit different from the absolute statement you wrote earlier! |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Jul 8, 2016 13:48:10 GMT -5
The "absolute statement" I made was simply that it supports some things that are lossy - obviously that's true. I took another look at it, and it doesn't appear to do any internal processing on the audio stream. Assuming that this is true, then the device itself would be "bit perfect". It also looks cute.... as a "small footprint headless dedicated network audio client" - which is a reasonably accurate functional description of what it is. Personally, if I'm going to spend $300 for a network client, I'd rather have a laptop computer, with a USB port, a battery, a hard drive, and a nice big 10" or 11" color screen. That way I have the flexibility to run whatever player software I want, and a nice big screen to view information on and to run it from. However, the SonicOrbiter is a lot smaller, doesn't have a fan, and does also include an optical output (which many computers don't), and those are all in its favor. Now, I also noticed that it supports several "modes", like Squeezeserver, which most definitely are NOT bit perfect. Really..... It supports Squeezeserver - which may or may not be bit-perfect - depending on how it's configured. Exactly, quite a bit different from the absolute statement you wrote earlier! |
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Post by brubacca on Jul 8, 2016 15:43:25 GMT -5
The "absolute statement" I made was simply that it supports some things that are lossy - obviously that's true. I took another look at it, and it doesn't appear to do any internal processing on the audio stream. Assuming that this is true, then the device itself would be "bit perfect". It also looks cute.... as a "small footprint headless dedicated network audio client" - which is a reasonably accurate functional description of what it is. Personally, if I'm going to spend $300 for a network client, I'd rather have a laptop computer, with a USB port, a battery, a hard drive, and a nice big 10" or 11" color screen. That way I have the flexibility to run whatever player software I want, and a nice big screen to view information on and to run it from. However, the SonicOrbiter is a lot smaller, doesn't have a fan, and does also include an optical output (which many computers don't), and those are all in its favor. Exactly, quite a bit different from the absolute statement you wrote earlier! My personal point all along has been that an all purpose PC or laptop is not a good enough source for me. I like the idea of an audio company taking the reigns of the circuit board and dedicating their knowledge to keeping noise out and optimizing the audio path. You certainly don't just use a MacMini slap some software on it, some I/O boards on it and call it the XMC-2. There is a skill in taking the signal and treating it properly. There is also a software skill in optimizing the code. I'very been down this road when I built a small custom PC with a julia sound card (similar to Bryston card at the time). It never sounded as good a my Naim Qute used just as network renderer to DAC. First I had Windows 7, then a couple custom Linux builds. I changed from the @juilia card to an external Asynchronous USB adapter. Then a Asynchronous DAC, then added a USB decrapifier. I'm sorry in my system in my house a standard PC is not good enough and it's a pain to keep going. Personally I have been following the Microrendu product recently and it appears to check all the boxes. It is built only for audio. The same kind of care that you seem to take with your products seems to have been addressed with that product. I haven'the tried one yet, but the buzz is that this cute little device is blowing away most competitive products, whether they are Mac Mini, Naim Unitiqute (like I use now), or even the Aurender of the world. Also the flexibility that you want in you PC setup (or Mac) is the pain to others. Just showing the other side here. Also if I seem a bit argumentative I'mean sorry. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 8, 2016 16:26:24 GMT -5
Thanks for the info guys KeithL and yves, but I really did know what an ethernet switch is, it's just that in regards to my audio system I really don't want to know about it and all the other IT crap. It's bad enough that I have to tolerate the IT nerds at work trying to confuse me with TLA's and FLA's just so they get budget approval to indulge their personal preferences. That promptly change the next day/week/month because they heard/read about some new wiz bang technology that we just have to have mostly so that they can impress their IT nerd mates. I don't want to have to debug some obscure software driver issue when I get home just so that I can listen to the music. It seems to me that guys with "streaming" systems spend more time researching and finally choosing them, playing with the software, updating the firmware, debugging the bugs, laying cables, changing their minds, buying new hardware and then debugging all over again. It's a never ending spiral into infinity, like a Drost effect. Cheers Gary |
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DYohn
Emo VIPs 
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Post by DYohn on Jul 8, 2016 16:44:07 GMT -5
Squeeze Sever (LMS) is bit-perfect in that it does not truncate nor add anything from or to the source file.
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hemster
Global Moderator
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
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Post by hemster on Jul 8, 2016 17:55:00 GMT -5
Thanks for the info guys KeithL and yves , but I really did know what an ethernet switch is, it's just that in regards to my audio system I really don't want to know about it and all the other IT crap. It's bad enough that I have to tolerate the IT nerds at work trying to confuse me with TLA's and FLA's just so they get budget approval to indulge their personal preferences. That promptly change the next day/week/month because they heard/read about some new wiz bang technology that we just have to have mostly so that they can impress their IT nerd mates. I don't want to have to debug some obscure software driver issue when I get home just so that I can listen to the music. It seems to me that guys with "streaming" systems spend more time researching and finally choosing them, playing with the software, updating the firmware, debugging the bugs, laying cables, changing their minds, buying new hardware and then debugging all over again. It's a never ending spiral into infinity, like a Drost effect. Cheers Gary Understand where you're coming from. For the past 5 years I've been using LMS installed an old PC streaming over wired Ethernet to 3 separate squeezebox receivers (see sig below). The only "maintenance" I've done is to single click on the prompt to install a new version of LMS. The console prompts me when a new version has been released and is available. No debugging, investigating etc. This even after changing out 2 routers over the years and recently upgrading the OS to Windows 10. It just works. Although I'm more than capable to do the debugging, I haven't had to. And frankly I don't want to. Maybe I've been lucky.  |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 8, 2016 18:24:53 GMT -5
Thanks for the info guys KeithL and yves , but I really did know what an ethernet switch is, it's just that in regards to my audio system I really don't want to know about it and all the other IT crap. It's bad enough that I have to tolerate the IT nerds at work trying to confuse me with TLA's and FLA's just so they get budget approval to indulge their personal preferences. That promptly change the next day/week/month because they heard/read about some new wiz bang technology that we just have to have mostly so that they can impress their IT nerd mates. I don't want to have to debug some obscure software driver issue when I get home just so that I can listen to the music. It seems to me that guys with "streaming" systems spend more time researching and finally choosing them, playing with the software, updating the firmware, debugging the bugs, laying cables, changing their minds, buying new hardware and then debugging all over again. It's a never ending spiral into infinity, like a Drost effect. Understand where you're coming from. For the past 5 years I've been using LMS installed an old PC streaming over wired Ethernet to 3 separate squeezebox receivers (see sig below). The only "maintenance" I've done is to single click on the prompt to install a new version of LMS. The console prompts me when a new version has been released and is available. No debugging, investigating etc. This even after changing out 2 routers over the years and recently upgrading the OS to Windows 10. It just works. Although I'm more than capable to do the debugging, I haven't had to. And frankly I don't want to. Maybe I've been lucky. Like wise, ~5 years, all I've done is to replace an EHDD and click on the iTunes updates. I'm not that lucky, I'm just not looking for the "ultimate" in sound quality from my streaming system, it's a never ending quest. I've just chosen a virtually maintenance free set up after years of battling with PC's and their constantly updating sound cards, new versions of Windows and the associated driver issues, routers, modems etc etc. Not to mention the far superior FAF (family acceptance factor).  In some ways it's like processors, buy the new one today and theres good chance that it's out of date tomorrow. There's always some new format, firmware, software, copy write protection etc that the "old" processor (streamer) won't handle. Cheers Gary |
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Post by qdtjni on Jul 9, 2016 0:43:12 GMT -5
The "absolute statement" I made was simply that it supports some things that are lossy - obviously that's true. I took another look at it, and it doesn't appear to do any internal processing on the audio stream. Assuming that this is true, then the device itself would be "bit perfect". It also looks cute.... as a "small footprint headless dedicated network audio client" - which is a reasonably accurate functional description of what it is. Personally, if I'm going to spend $300 for a network client, I'd rather have a laptop computer, with a USB port, a battery, a hard drive, and a nice big 10" or 11" color screen. That way I have the flexibility to run whatever player software I want, and a nice big screen to view information on and to run it from. However, the SonicOrbiter is a lot smaller, doesn't have a fan, and does also include an optical output (which many computers don't), and those are all in its favor. Exactly, quite a bit different from the absolute statement you wrote earlier! If that's what you meant you surely could have phrased it better than "like Squeezeserver, which most definitely are NOT bit perfect." Especially if you were referring to it supporting lossy formats. So does your beloved PC playing from local disk, is it therefore also most definitely NOT bit perfect? As for the Sonic Orbiter, it also has USB ports. If you think it's expensive for what is, I certainly do, there are many much cheaper alternatives, if you are willing to install the free SW yourself. |
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Post by yves on Jul 9, 2016 7:06:01 GMT -5
Thanks for the info guys KeithL and yves, but I really did know what an ethernet switch is, it's just that in regards to my audio system I really don't want to know about it and all the other IT crap. It's bad enough that I have to tolerate the IT nerds at work trying to confuse me with TLA's and FLA's just so they get budget approval to indulge their personal preferences. That promptly change the next day/week/month because they heard/read about some new wiz bang technology that we just have to have mostly so that they can impress their IT nerd mates. I don't want to have to debug some obscure software driver issue when I get home just so that I can listen to the music. It seems to me that guys with "streaming" systems spend more time researching and finally choosing them, playing with the software, updating the firmware, debugging the bugs, laying cables, changing their minds, buying new hardware and then debugging all over again. It's a never ending spiral into infinity, like a Drost effect. Cheers Gary Well... the MQS Streaming Server software was extremely fast and easy to install, and it immediately worked like a charm. Through my Westone ES60s it sounds just wicked.  |
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