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Post by retro80 on Jul 28, 2016 16:48:08 GMT -5
Hi
New XMC owner here, got the unit a week ago. I've spent the past week listening to a variety of music I know very well, ranging from Vinyl & CD to Hi-Res. My sources are an HTPC and CD player, both connected via COAX. All listening was done in Reference Stereo or Direct mode.
Now for my issues. Compared to my old Preamp, which sounds natural & detailed, the XMC sounds bright & harsh, especially in the midrange. Vocals are affected the most, with emphasized 'F' and 'S'.
I tried using my old Preamp as DAC, connecting its analog "Tape Out" to the XMC's Analog1 input. Quality was greatly improved, but the volume was so low I had to take the XMC up to 0db, and it still wasn't loud enough for casual listening.
Some info about my setup:
Speakers: Vandersteen 3A Amp: Bryston 4BST Old Preamp: Theta Digital Casa Nova (released in 1998) XMC and Casa Nova connected to the Bryston via XLR.
I've tried everything I can think of but starting to think this is just how the XMC sounds.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
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geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,181
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Post by geebo on Jul 28, 2016 16:53:36 GMT -5
Hi New XMC owner here, got the unit a week ago. I've spent the past week listening to a variety of music I know very well, ranging from Vinyl & CD to Hi-Res. My sources are an HTPC and CD player, both connected via COAX. All listening was done in Reference Stereo or Direct mode. Now for my issues. Compared to my old Preamp, which sounds natural & detailed, the XMC sounds bright & harsh, especially in the midrange. Vocals are affected the most, with emphasized 'F' and 'S'. I tried using my old Preamp as DAC, connecting its analog "Tape Out" to the XMC's Analog1 input. Quality was greatly improved, but the volume was so low I had to take the XMC up to 0db, and it still wasn't loud enough for casual listening. Some info about my setup: Speakers: Vandersteen 3A Amp: Bryston 4BST Old Preamp: Theta Digital Casa Nova (released in 1998) XMC and Casa Nova connected to the Bryston via XLR. I've tried everything I can think of but starting to think this is just how the XMC sounds. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! I would try a factory reset and power down before anything.
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Post by retro80 on Jul 28, 2016 16:55:42 GMT -5
That's the first thing I tried, after doing some forum reading.
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Post by brutiarti on Jul 28, 2016 16:59:48 GMT -5
Did you play with the speaker placements?
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Post by repeetavx on Jul 28, 2016 17:04:44 GMT -5
Check to make sure that your speakers are set to large.
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Post by retro80 on Jul 28, 2016 17:07:42 GMT -5
Hi
Speakers are set to large, distance & levels were properly set. Placement is irrelevant to this issue, as the sound is great with the Theta.
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Post by repeetavx on Jul 28, 2016 17:10:43 GMT -5
Sounds like it is either bad synergy, or a broken unit.
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Post by brutiarti on Jul 28, 2016 17:11:19 GMT -5
Hi Speakers are set to large, distance & levels were properly set. Placement is irrelevant to this issue, as the sound is great with the Theta. Adding or replacing a piece of equipment requires repositioning the speakers for best results... Some guys here are experts on the matter
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Post by goodfellas27 on Jul 29, 2016 6:11:41 GMT -5
why not try USB and WASAPI on your HTPC? GIve you better sound quality and allows for playback of 192khz files
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Post by frenchyfranky on Jul 29, 2016 8:31:55 GMT -5
The sibilance in sounds as you describe is absolutely not a character of the XMC-1, something is wrong in the chain, if you suspect the XMC-1 could be defective call Emotiva.
Also, Sometime when we add a new piece of equipment in the audio chain puzzle, it can highlights an existing problem in the stereo chain that we didn't realize before because we were accustomed and familiar with the sound that we were listening for many years.
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Post by frenchyfranky on Jul 29, 2016 8:42:37 GMT -5
Hi New XMC owner here, got the unit a week ago. I've spent the past week listening to a variety of music I know very well, ranging from Vinyl & CD to Hi-Res. My sources are an HTPC and CD player, both connected via COAX. All listening was done in Reference Stereo or Direct mode. Now for my issues. Compared to my old Preamp, which sounds natural & detailed, the XMC sounds bright & harsh, especially in the midrange. Vocals are affected the most, with emphasized 'F' and 'S'. I tried using my old Preamp as DAC, connecting its analog "Tape Out" to the XMC's Analog1 input. Quality was greatly improved, but the volume was so low I had to take the XMC up to 0db, and it still wasn't loud enough for casual listening. Some info about my setup: Speakers: Vandersteen 3A Amp: Bryston 4BST Old Preamp: Theta Digital Casa Nova (released in 1998) XMC and Casa Nova connected to the Bryston via XLR.
I've tried everything I can think of but starting to think this is just how the XMC sounds. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Also have you tried to plug the XMC-1 directly into your Bryston power amp instead of passing through an other unnecessary preamp? Because the XMC-1 is a preamp and using two in series as you do isn't a good idea.
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Post by retro80 on Jul 29, 2016 8:53:18 GMT -5
why not try USB and WASAPI on your HTPC? GIve you better sound quality and allows for playback of 192khz files Didn't try that yet, but currently my HTPC is too far from the rest of the system for USB. In any case, the HTPC is not the only source & I dont want to have to use a single USB input for all music listening. Btw, 24bit/192Khz works over Coax
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Post by retro80 on Jul 29, 2016 8:56:38 GMT -5
Also have you tried to plug the XMC-1 directly into your Bryston power amp instead of passing through an other unnecessary preamp? Because the XMC-1 is a preamp and using two in series as you do isn't a good idea. It is plugged directly, I used the Theta as DAC, plugged into the XMC, as an experiment, and it did sound much better.
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Post by retro80 on Jul 29, 2016 9:02:54 GMT -5
The sibilance in sounds as you describe is absolutely not a character of the XMC-1, something is wrong in the chain, if you suspect the XMC-1 could be defective call Emotiva. Also, Sometime when we add a new piece of equipment in the audio chain puzzle, it can highlights an existing problem in the stereo chain that we didn't realize before because we was accustomed and familiar with the sound that we were listening for many years. The only piece of equipment changed is the Preamp, all sources are the same. Before the Theta, I used another Preamp with the same amp & speakers, and there were no issues like what I'm experiencing. Next week I'll take the XMC to a friend and listen to it on his system, then I'll know for sure where the problem is coming from.
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Post by garbulky on Jul 29, 2016 9:20:54 GMT -5
Placement isn't irrelevant. Every piece of electronics I stuck in required some placement adjustments. The brightness sounds like too much or too little toe in. Adjust with toe in etc, distance from the speaker etc. Do the whole dance. Now Theta is supposed to be pretty good at being a DAC so maybe it's simply better. But the XMC-1 isn't really "harsh" when setup well. Remember to do the placement with DIRAC OFF. If plugging the Theta in to the XMC-1 sounds right and the XMC-1 sounds different then one indicator could well be that it is placement. The Theta has a different optimal placement.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,929
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Post by KeithL on Jul 29, 2016 9:46:38 GMT -5
The XMC-1 itself is very neutral - and I haven't ever heard it characterized as bright (except in comparison to things that aren't neutral). (Especially in Reference Stereo mode, I seriously doubt you'd even hear that the XMC-1 was there other than providing gain.) That's also NOT the sort of thing that will normally occur due to some sort of problem - other than a bad EQ setting.
I would tend to agree that what you're hearing is "system synergy" (which is an around-about way of saying that something else in your system is a bit too bright, and the Theta rolls off the high end a bit, and the two imperfections cancel out to "just right").
With very few exceptions, adding something adds coloration, although, hopefully, as little as possible. Therefore, if adding something in the signal chain makes something "better", it's almost always because it's cancelling out a flaw in something else with one of its own.
I would agree that speakers and speaker placement are the first places I would look... small changes in speaker location or positioning can make a huge difference.
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 29, 2016 10:25:40 GMT -5
Check to make sure that your speakers are set to large. I would have to disagree with this. Large or Small settings on the speakers will change how the speakers interact with the subwoofer or subwoofers. However, those settings are there as an option depending on your speaker type, size etc. Small setting will not cause the system to become harsh but may not be the best setting, given the size and/or output settings of the corresponding sub. I use "small settings" with large speakers for reasons too long to get into here, with fantastic results. Bill
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geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,181
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Post by geebo on Jul 29, 2016 11:09:41 GMT -5
Check to make sure that your speakers are set to large. I would have to disagree with this. Large or Small settings on the speakers will change how the speakers interact with the subwoofer or subwoofers. However, those settings are there as an option depending on your speaker type, size etc. Small setting will not cause the system to become harsh but may not be the best setting, given the size and/or output settings of the corresponding sub. I use "small settings" with large speakers for reasons too long to get into here, with fantastic results. Bill But I think the OP is without a sub whereas you have one.
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 29, 2016 12:36:55 GMT -5
I would have to disagree with this. Large or Small settings on the speakers will change how the speakers interact with the subwoofer or subwoofers. However, those settings are there as an option depending on your speaker type, size etc. Small setting will not cause the system to become harsh but may not be the best setting, given the size and/or output settings of the corresponding sub. I use "small settings" with large speakers for reasons too long to get into here, with fantastic results. Bill But I think the OP is without a sub whereas you have one. Yes......I re-read and you are right about my sub. but still, "bright and harsh" as he says. I don't think those large or small settings are his problem either way and we are looking for something else. Already, he's come back and reported his speaker settings are at large. I don't know, from my experience changing a preamp can be huge in terms of changing that overall sound. Maybe the unit has a problem or maybe, all the settings need to be looked over again. I know I have made some changes that are saved in "System EQ" so they remain "persistent". (I backed off the treble there a bit myself) At the same time, running default on parametric eq. (for the moment). Bill
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Post by repeetavx on Jul 29, 2016 14:03:45 GMT -5
My worry was that somewhere deep in the settings that the speakers were set to small, and that the low frequency cutoff was set too high. Like somewhere between 100nz and 200hz. That would make any system sound harsh and bright.
I'm afraid that something could be broke in his XMC-1. My XMC-1 might not be warm and full sounding, but it is ruthlessly neutral.
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