|
Post by adaboy on Dec 5, 2017 13:29:35 GMT -5
I do understand the OP has system issues that are a challenge to getting the desired sound quality, but I’m tired 💤 of seeing this thread title still popping up saying The XMC sounds “bright and unnatural”. Time to close this one and if needed, start a system help needed thread, or something.....that addresses the problem that lays no blame to the processor. Bill But but it does sound bright (my experience), so why change the title? What if the title was "XMC-1 sounds amazing" but the op had the same issues? I doubt anyone would be calling for a name change.
|
|
|
Post by foggy1956 on Dec 5, 2017 15:49:15 GMT -5
Hello, you only changed the tweeter of the left loudspeaker. There is a big difference between the two measurements... Is it only depending to the two differnt microphones or did you changed anything other ? Markus The only changes were the tweeter in the left speaker and I am using the MiniDSP UMIK-1 microphone instead of the included Emotiva microphone. Amps, wires, speaker positions, room placements and everything else is exactly the same. Did you load the filters into the xmc-1?
|
|
|
Post by rhale64 on Dec 5, 2017 16:29:25 GMT -5
It doesn't sound bright in my room with my speakers. I think this is the problem. First of all with that before graph of Dirac it should sound bright in direct mode. Or any mode that is not corrected. And if the op is not using stereo mode for 2 channel music then it is not taking advantage of Dirac. If the Onkyo sounds smoother it is not true to the source. The XMC1 is playing more true to the source. I am just saying if that mic is corrected with that graph it shows that it will be harsh sounding.
If you look at that graph his highs are elevated big time. I am assuming here that it is not a treated room. Maybe hard floors etc;.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Davis on Dec 5, 2017 21:51:31 GMT -5
The only changes were the tweeter in the left speaker and I am using the MiniDSP UMIK-1 microphone instead of the included Emotiva microphone. Amps, wires, speaker positions, room placements and everything else is exactly the same. Did you load the filters into the xmc-1? I did load the filters into the xmc1. The observations I wrote were based off of listening to it after applying the auto curve filter.
|
|
|
Post by foggy1956 on Dec 5, 2017 21:55:06 GMT -5
Did you load the filters into the xmc-1? I did load the filters into the xmc1. The observations I wrote were based off of listening to it after applying the auto curve filter. You might want to try a 6db shelf from 20- 100hz or so, bass tends to be anemic with the dirac house curve. If it still sounds harsh you could try rolling off the highs also
|
|
|
Post by Chris Davis on Dec 6, 2017 1:03:58 GMT -5
I did load the filters into the xmc1. The observations I wrote were based off of listening to it after applying the auto curve filter. You might want to try a 6db shelf from 20- 100hz or so, bass tends to be anemic with the dirac house curve. If it still sounds harsh you could try rolling off the highs also Thanks I'll try that. Sorry for my ignorance, but can you make a suggestion on where to roll off the highs? And by how much? Perhaps Just 1db DB? Also, does anyone know how to adjust the subwoofer levels or curves with Dirac? I don't see it listed in the speaker section of the software.
|
|
|
Post by superhelmi on Dec 6, 2017 1:17:44 GMT -5
Hello,
you have to setup your speakersetup correctly! Menu - setup - speakers - dirac There you have to tell the XMC-1 what speakers you have Attention !! You have to setup each preset (preset1 , preset2, dirac ) !! once you have enabled a sub , you will see it in the dirac software
Markus
|
|
|
Post by herbots on Dec 6, 2017 2:11:50 GMT -5
Me and another ordered also an Xmc-1. The other man is not happy with the sound in every possible setting, and if he does the dirac live correction the software is messing it up totally resulting in even a worser sound. He had a visit from a dirac specialist (not really someone from dirac) but he could not helo him. He made the switch back to his obkyo integra without changing anything else and the sound is much much better. I personally have not heard it myself
|
|
|
Post by superhelmi on Dec 6, 2017 6:22:39 GMT -5
Hello, The XMC-1 definitely sounds great !! But it`s also a true sound. So if it`s not sounding good you have to search why. my opinion / tip: - you have to use the dirac live Full version - you have to adjust the target curve - starting point is a curve near the meassured curve (without the peaks) - Don`t use the auto target or try to get a absolutely straight frequency response ! - after uploading you can compare the sound switching between "STEREO" and "REFERENCE STEREO", both in preset "dirac"
I came from a Linn AV5103. A really good sounding AV pre. In reference mode the XMC-1 was sounding minimum as good as the Linn (or a little bit better) But with dirac full it`s sounding better !
|
|
|
Post by 405x5 on Dec 6, 2017 9:06:40 GMT -5
I feel bad for those here who are not pleased with their XMC sound....sometimes I think it’s a rather simple matter of trusting your ears, before relying too heavily on automated room corrections, filters etc.
It’s also a tough nut to swallow that MAYBE....you need to choose new loudspeakers that appeal to you. The loudspeakers are fundamentally the most important component in the mix and trying to “correct” them, can take you on an impossible journey.
The loudspeakers and the room for listening....always the two most vital components in the mix.
Bill
|
|
|
Post by foggy1956 on Dec 6, 2017 9:17:42 GMT -5
I feel bad for those here who are not pleased with their XMC sound....sometimes I think it’s a rather simple matter of trusting your ears, before relying too heavily on automated room corrections, filters etc. It’s also a tough nut to swallow that MAYBE....you need to choose new loudspeakers that appeal to you. The loudspeakers are fundamentally the most important component in the mix and trying to “correct” them, can take you on an impossible journey. The loudspeakers and the room for listening....always the two most vital components in the mix. Bill Before buying new speakers I would take a hard look at room treatments, much smaller investment. People in this forum downplay REW but a few freq sweeps will tell a great deal about how the speakers are acting in that room. Those sweeps can be sent to companies who specialize in room treatments and their knowledge can be very helpful.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,938
|
Post by KeithL on Dec 6, 2017 10:29:07 GMT -5
I was thinking the same thing. The XMC-1 itself - without room correction - is simply neutral (it isn't bright, or dull, or warm, or cold). (Of course, if that's not what you're hoping for, then I guess you might not like it.... and speakers and the room itself both contribute far more to what you hear than your processor or amp.) "Room correction" works great for some things, and quite well at eliminating minor dips and peaks in frequency response, and sorting out imaging, but it isn't a panacea. For example, if your room is exceptionally reflective, or exceptionally dead, room correction won't be able to correct the RATIO between direct and reflected sound. And, if your speakers themselves are distorted, or have a serious resonance at a specific frequency, it won't be able to correct that either. Room correction does the best job if it has a pretty good starting point - and, if your speakers or room are really bad, then, while it will probably improve things, it may not be able to fix them entirely. I feel bad for those here who are not pleased with their XMC sound....sometimes I think it’s a rather simple matter of trusting your ears, before relying too heavily on automated room corrections, filters etc. It’s also a tough nut to swallow that MAYBE....you need to choose new loudspeakers that appeal to you. The loudspeakers are fundamentally the most important component in the mix and trying to “correct” them, can take you on an impossible journey. The loudspeakers and the room for listening....always the two most vital components in the mix. Bill
|
|
Lsc
Emo VIPs
Posts: 3,343
|
Post by Lsc on Dec 6, 2017 15:58:18 GMT -5
I wonder if these couple guys just have a bad XMC-1. Is that possible?
I felt like I had a bad tweeter in my Revel F208 when I originally bought it and within a year it blew. The replacement tweeter actually improved the performance of my system over the “defective” tweeter before it was blown.
Just sayin’...
|
|
|
Post by foggy1956 on Dec 6, 2017 16:24:37 GMT -5
I wonder if these couple guys just have a bad XMC-1. Is that possible? I felt like I had a bad tweeter in my Revel F208 when I originally bought it and within a year it blew. The replacement tweeter actually improved the performance of my system over the “defective” tweeter before it was blown. Just sayin’... My bet is the previous processor didn't do hi freqs accurately, now with an accurate processor and probably some reflective surfaces that are poorly or not treated the sound is brighter than expected. My .02 only
|
|
Lsc
Emo VIPs
Posts: 3,343
|
Post by Lsc on Dec 6, 2017 19:19:01 GMT -5
My bet is the previous processor didn't do hi freqs accurately, now with an accurate processor and probably some reflective surfaces that are poorly or not treated the sound is brighter than expected. My .02 only Vandersteen 3A is a very laid back speaker, I’d almost say they sound rolled off at the high frequencies. The Theta Casanova was an excellent preamp from back in the day with a great analog volume control. I’m guessing the preamp of the XMC-1 is worse than the Casanova. It makes sense.
|
|
|
Post by foggy1956 on Dec 6, 2017 19:35:13 GMT -5
My bet is the previous processor didn't do hi freqs accurately, now with an accurate processor and probably some reflective surfaces that are poorly or not treated the sound is brighter than expected. My .02 only Vandersteen 3A is a very laid back speaker, I’d almost say they sound rolled off at the high frequencies. The Theta Casanova was an excellent preamp from back in the day with a great analog volume control. I’m guessing the preamp of the XMC-1 is worse than the Casanova. It makes sense. Well then, back to my original suggestion , run a freq sweep of both set ups in REW and lets have a look at what's going on.
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,188
|
Post by geebo on Dec 6, 2017 20:00:14 GMT -5
My bet is the previous processor didn't do hi freqs accurately, now with an accurate processor and probably some reflective surfaces that are poorly or not treated the sound is brighter than expected. My .02 only Vandersteen 3A is a very laid back speaker, I’d almost say they sound rolled off at the high frequencies. The Theta Casanova was an excellent preamp from back in the day with a great analog volume control. I’m guessing the preamp of the XMC-1 is worse than the Casanova. It makes sense. Don't they have tweeter controls? What if they're turned up? Anyway, it was the original OP that has those speakers. The more recent poster that resurrected the thread has Energy Veritas V6.3 towers, Energy Veritas V5.1 Center, Energy Veritas Cieling speakers for rear surrounds.
|
|
Lsc
Emo VIPs
Posts: 3,343
|
Post by Lsc on Dec 6, 2017 20:03:29 GMT -5
Vandersteen 3A is a very laid back speaker, I’d almost say they sound rolled off at the high frequencies. The Theta Casanova was an excellent preamp from back in the day with a great analog volume control. I’m guessing the preamp of the XMC-1 is worse than the Casanova. It makes sense. Don't they have tweeter controls? What if they're turned up? Anyway, it was the original OP that has those speakers. The more recent poster that resurrected the thread has Energy Veritas V6.3 towers, Energy Veritas V5.1 Center, Energy Veritas Cieling speakers for rear surrounds. Energy speakers are generally on the bright side.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Davis on Dec 8, 2017 1:32:55 GMT -5
Update for everyone:
After spending some time making a custom house curve and moving away from the auto-curve, I can happily say that the warm sound of the speakers has improved -for the most part. I am having trouble isolating a small range of "harsh" that pokes its head out very noticeably on a particular song. Does anyone have a suggestion on how I can try to isolate a specific song's frequency for an instrument so that I can try and dial back that specific range with Dirac?
Is what I am asking for unheard of / unreasonable?
|
|
|
Post by superhelmi on Dec 8, 2017 6:07:03 GMT -5
Hi Chris,
good to hear that ! One way would by try and error... Perhaps an other way would be useing RTA in RoomEQ. There you can see a realtime frequenzy analysis and perhaps you can see the frequenz-area that is moving up when that instrument/song is playing.
Markus
|
|