XDA-2 and Windows 10 Anniversary Update

[The History Kid]

So, I received the update for the "full circle" Windows 10 today and in general haven't been too bothered by it - outside of having to reset my folder view options.....AGAIN.

That is - until I realized something very important, the XDA-2 is now totally unresponsive to the computer and vice versa. I've tried power cycling the unit, unplugging and replugging the USB in, power cycling the computer...and even resetting the drivers.

Nothing.

It is nowhere to be found in any device management window, or sound menu. It works on Windows 10 units, but it seems to have a serious issue with the 10".1" version. Do we know if there are driver changes that'd impact this, and if there will be any driver updates to correct this?

[ludi]

Yesterday I did a full update to the new windows and my XDA-2 works as before. Maybe if you download and install the driver again it'll work?

[The History Kid]

Tried that with no luck. The only solace I have so far is knowing that whatever it is, is not on the DAC's end.

[Percussionista]

I lost the DC-1/driver connection with the anniversary update, but re-installing the driver fixed it. This is the same driver for all of Emo's DAC enabled products.

Win10's list of devices did include the DC-1 but said the driver was unavailable, and the list of audio output devices did not include it.

I had the usual trouble installing the driver as it's unsigned, so had to go through lots of extra hoops to turn MS's insistence on signed drivers off. Also, had to first remove the driver (so, the driver must still have existed out there but was not connected to the DC-1 device).

Have you been able to determine if that XDA-2 is working separately from the USB computer connection? Can you check one of the digital inputs instead? If you're connected to a computer it may have toslink-out which won't require a driver; just make sure you test it with a stereo signal otherwise the XDA-2 won't recognize it either ;-)

[The History Kid]

Aug 6, 2016 13:00:03 GMT -5 Percussionista said:

Can you check one of the digital inputs instead? If you're connected to a computer it may have toslink-out which won't require a driver; just make sure you test it with a stereo signal otherwise the XDA-2 won't recognize it either ;-)

Oh my gosh, I had never thought about doing that, but I guess it would be essentially the same thing, wouldn't it? I think I'll give that a go later tonight. Thanks for the tip!

[The History Kid]

So it gets better, the unit works if I boot into safe mode. I'm really scratching my head on this one...

[frenchyfranky]

emotiva.com/resources/Emotiva_C-Media_Drivers_Win10_v101a.pdf

Windows 10 won't use driver not digitally signed for Win 10, you need to force Windows to use it with the install procedure in the above link

[macromicroman]

I had to reload the drivers while the XDA-2 was connected. I had to first disable the signature requirement. I had done this before but apparently it has to be done again. All is now well.

[The History Kid]

The unit has randomly decided it's going to work now this morning. I'm not entirely sure what the issue was but, it is resolved I guess.

[ÈlTwo]

Unless you do a fresh install, the Win 10 anniversary update can be finicky. Sometimes you have to go and uninstall something (be it a driver, an entire underlying framework, or program), and then re-install it from scratch.

I've been on the beta for Win 10 since before it came out, and sometimes innocuous changes MS makes (and sometimes don't mention) cause this problem. In fact, the anniversary update, which I did on a fresh install, behaves slightly differently than the beta I was running on July 27th!

[hersh]

My DC-1 driver also failed when upgrading to the anniversary update.

I checked-out C-Media's site but couldn't find a suitable driver there. Then I googled for the C-Media True Audio driver to find out what other companies use it and if anyone had a signed version. Luckily, I found one that has a signed version of the driver and it worked like a charm.

Not sure if it's bad protocol to link to a competitor's site, but the driver can be had here: schiit.com/public/upload/drivers/Schiit_USB_Gen2_W10_1_01.zip

[KeithL]

OK......

There's this thing called "signing drivers".
The idea is that, when the vendor "signs" the drivers, they are "cryptographically locked against tampering".
So, if you download drivers from some dubious source, but the drivers are signed by the right vendor, then you know they're safe to use.

While this is a nice idea, it has a few flaws.....
1) You're still trusting the vendor that the drivers were safe before they were signed.
2) Signing drivers is a bit of a nuisance, it costs a bit of time and money, and you have to do it every time you update the drivers.
3) Because of that last item, about half the drivers in the world end up being signed, and about half are not.
4) You're also trusting the signatures to be real (which they probably are - but no promises).
5) And, if you're downloading the drivers from a location you already trust, then signing them doesn't really prove anything.

Now, Windows has an option called "driver signature enforcement".
It's been around for a while but, in most previous versions of Windows, it has been turned off by default.
(This varies by Windows version, and by the maker of your computer if it's an OEM version.... and Microsoft can change the setting when they do an update.
Also, if you had it turned off in Windows 8, it may or may not STAY off when you update to Windows 10 - mine did.)

Note that, if driver signature enforcement is turned ON, it will block you from installing an unsigned driver (sometimes without telling you).
Or it MIGHT let you seem to install the driver - but then not allow the driver to work.
And, if you turn it on AFTER an unsigned driver is already installed, it might BREAK that driver so it no longer works.

So, odds are that what we're talking about here is that driver signature enforcement got turned on by the update.
(This happens on some machines and not others - isn't Windows fun?)

*** OUR DC-1/XDA-2/XMC-1 DRIVERS ARE ***NOT*** SIGNED ***

HERE'S HOW YOU FIX IT.....   TURN DRIVER SIGNATURE ENFORCEMENT OFF!
However, since it probably already broke the drivers, but didn't actually remove them....
AFTER DISABLING DRIVER SIGNATURE ENFORCEMENT, you're going to have to UNINSTALL the drivers, reboot your computer, and then REINSTALL the drivers.

Note that the XDA-2 will work with the same drivers as the ones we use on the XMC-1 and the DC-1, so you can download either of those and use them with your XDA-2.
(However, if you already have the drivers installed because you used the computer with an XMC-1, you may have to remove and reinstall them for them to work with an XDA-2.)

HERE'S HOW TO PERMANENTLY DISABLE DSE IN WINDOWS 10 (at least as of now - until they change something again)

Assuming you have a keyboard:

1)
Press the "X" key WHILE HOLDING DOWN THE WINDOWS KEY
(this will bring up a menu)

2)
On this menu, select COMMAND PROMPT (ADMIN)
(this lets you enter commands with administrator privileges)

3)
It will probably ask you if you "want to let this app make changes to your system".
If it does, click YES.
(you should now see a black screen with a command prompt window)
(this will look something like:  C:\WINDOWS\system32>     )

4)
At the command prompt type the following CAREFULLY AND EXACTLY - then press the ENTER key

bcdedit.exe /set nointegritychecks on

(you should then be told "The operation completed successfully".)
(to get out of the black text window - type EXIT then hit the ENTER key.)

5)
Now, when you restart Windows 10, driver signature enforcement should be OFF
(it should stay that way - at least until someone turns it back on - which might happen with the next major update)

Aug 6, 2016 13:00:03 GMT -5 Percussionista said:

I lost the DC-1/driver connection with the anniversary update, but re-installing the driver fixed it. This is the same driver for all of Emo's DAC enabled products.

Win10's list of devices did include the DC-1 but said the driver was unavailable, and the list of audio output devices did not include it.

I had the usual trouble installing the driver as it's unsigned, so had to go through lots of extra hoops to turn MS's insistence on signed drivers off. Also, had to first remove the driver (so, the driver must still have existed out there but was not connected to the DC-1 device).

Have you been able to determine if that XDA-2 is working separately from the USB computer connection? Can you check one of the digital inputs instead? If you're connected to a computer it may have toslink-out which won't require a driver; just make sure you test it with a stereo signal otherwise the XDA-2 won't recognize it either ;-)

[The History Kid]

Guys,

Appreciate that in my instances it could be an issue with driver signatures, but I highly doubt that was the issue because the drivers were installed and working prior to the update, and randomly began working again after the update. There was no rhyme or reason to what exactly caused the problem or what the resolution was.

Drivers worked after my 8.1 to 10 move, but not 10 to 10.1.
That doesn't seem like an issue with driver signing.

Installation was successful when I reinstalled the drivers and still had no luck. I can't say what fixed the issue as I left for work - came home, the DAC was responding again, with no indications that any other updates had been installed.

[Percussionista]

Thanks for this info! A lot easier than the first method, requiring several arcane reboots and boot-level menus. I have one question though - does this affect any other features other than driver signing? The flag "nointegritychecks" is kind of all-inclusive sounding.

Aug 10, 2016 11:57:20 GMT -5 KeithL said:

...
At the command prompt type the following CAREFULLY AND EXACTLY - then press the ENTER key

bcdedit.exe /set nointegritychecks on

[Percussionista]

Aug 10, 2016 13:15:29 GMT -5 The History Kid said:

Guys,

Appreciate that in my instances it could be an issue with driver signatures, but I highly doubt that was the issue because the drivers were installed and working prior to the update, and randomly began working again after the update. There was no rhyme or reason to what exactly caused the problem or what the resolution was.

Drivers worked after my 8.1 to 10 move, but not 10 to 10.1.
That doesn't seem like an issue with driver signing.

Installation was successful when I reinstalled the drivers and still had no luck. I can't say what fixed the issue as I left for work - came home, the DAC was responding again, with no indications that any other updates had been installed.

If I'm reading what you have been saying correctly, the driver started working whenever you re-booted, which is to be expected. After re-installing the driver (correctly), you needed to do a reboot, I believe. If on the other hand, by working "randomly" thereafter, you mean that after it seemed to work again, after a reboot, that it then seemed to stop working, and another time started working again, then I have no thoughts on that ;-(

[The History Kid]

Indeed it's the latter description. It wouldn't bother me so much if I could understand how it was fixed.

1. Updated to Windows 10.1 from 10.
There were several reboots during this time.
2. Tested XDA-2, device couldn't be found or accessed.
3. Rebooted PC.
4. Rebooted XDA.
5. Tested again with no luck.
(Checked and verified XDA worked on other 10.1 and 10 PC's with success.)
6. Rebooted with driver check turned off.
7. Reinstalled driver.
8. Rebooted again and tested XDA with no luck.
9. Rebooted XDA again.
10. Tested again with no luck.
11. Left the room for a few hours.
12. Returned, tested XDA again after confirming the PC had not rebooted - works.

My only stab or guess is that somehow the driver had a delayed load, but that goes out the window when running a diagnostic boot shows the driver clearly being loaded on startup. Like I said, I should just be glad it's working, but irked if someone else has the exact same issue and it takes an unknown amount of time to begin working again.

[KeithL]

OK, first of all, the driver only loads when the computer "sees" the attached device......
so, if the connection between the DAC and the computer isn't properly established, you won't see the driver when you look.

The only thing I can think of that would explain that sort of erratic behavior might be something borderline in the USB connection.
For example, our DACs won't work if the USB cable is too long, or with some odd audiophile cables.
However, whether the connection is successful also depends to some degree on the timing inside the computer, both hardware and software.

While most short cables will work reliably, and a cable that's too long probably won't work at all, a cable that's "borderline" might work some times and not others,
or may work with certain USB ports on your computer and not others, or might even work or not depending on other drivers that may be loaded in Windows.
(And which drivers are loaded may depend on what other USB devices, if any, are plugged in at the time.)
This suggests that it might be worthwhile to try a shorter or different cable, or a different port on your computer.
It's also possible that there's some sort of conflict going on in Windows between our driver and something else.

(However, since it's working just fine on other Windows 10 machines, even with the latest update, there's no "basic" problem with our drivers and Windows 10 itself.
We are also not currently aware of any specific devices which conflict with ours. )

[KeithL]

The short answer is that I have no idea......
The ONLY references I have been able to find to that command involve disabling DSE.
(However, trying to figure out Windows security is a moving target at best.... )

Aug 11, 2016 13:48:27 GMT -5 Percussionista said:

Thanks for this info! A lot easier than the first method, requiring several arcane reboots and boot-level menus. I have one question though - does this affect any other features other than driver signing? The flag "nointegritychecks" is kind of all-inclusive sounding.

Aug 10, 2016 11:57:20 GMT -5 KeithL said:

...
At the command prompt type the following CAREFULLY AND EXACTLY - then press the ENTER key

bcdedit.exe /set nointegritychecks on

[The History Kid]

Well, I can say that the attachment on the end of the DAC has always been odd in that it doesn't snap in to place like I would normally expect. It's the only cable at this point that I haven't replaced with a better quality one - as the USB is a Gigaware brand from the Radio Shack days. I do have to reboot the DAC if I want to use it after my computer goes to sleep or reboots...

One question based off of what another member said, are there any cons to using Tosslink? I use up to 192 kHz outputs with the DAC now, does Tosslink support that rate, and would I notice any shortcomings? The PC does have a standard Optic out, and I still have one free on the DAC.

[Percussionista]

Aug 11, 2016 14:20:42 GMT -5 KeithL said:

The short answer is that I have no idea......
The ONLY references I have been able to find to that command involve disabling DSE.
(However, trying to figure out Windows security is a moving target at best.... )

Aug 11, 2016 13:48:27 GMT -5 Percussionista said:

Thanks for this info! A lot easier than the first method, requiring several arcane reboots and boot-level menus. I have one question though - does this affect any other features other than driver signing? The flag "nointegritychecks" is kind of all-inclusive sounding.

Hmm... Yep after doing some googling around it does seem that this flag affects DSE but no other feature is mentioned in addition to that.