Post by etc6849 on Aug 24, 2016 16:48:45 GMT -5
So, 80Hz crossover is -3dB. 40Hz (one octave down) we have -15dB, 20Hz we have -27dB down for the speaker. Now include the natural roll off of the loudspeakers woofer (I have this measurement on my google drive linked in the OP can't access it now), lets just assume -24dB/octave natural roll off since it is a vented enclosure. So at 20Hz we'd have -24dB + -27dB = -51dB down for the speakers impact for the Dirac PC version plot, versus what the sub is adding which is essentially ALL of the SPL for 15-20Hz... (which is most of the output since front spkr is very low)
This makes one wonder why you feel the need to keep insisting I measure just the front speaker by itself. It is already just the sub, and 99% of the improvement you see in the measurements is the low frequencies anyways (more phase coherence below 60Hz, better waterfall plot, etc...). For the freq range I'm talking about it is already essentially just the sub that is running, no need to take the front speaker out, it is honestly just the sub response Dirac is correcting for these frequencies.
If you want, feel free to post measurements here though. Since my main speakers have a 39Hz 3dB point it is crazy that you want me to plot this anyway when I've said no. Like I said, most improvement is in the low freq range.
It'd be nice to have comparisons on two different systems in two different rooms. To be honest, Emotiva is very busy and unlikely to care if just one user does this. They are great folks there though, but I can see them saying my room is an exception as I have 12 bass traps, etc... and they'd be absolutely right in saying my room is NOT typical.
In closing, the SUB is the contributor in the 15-30Hz region, crossover and main speaker affect is negligible at the frequencies where there is the most improvement. No reason to verify this and I'm not wasting my time. Please don't ask again, and this absolutely does not devalue my measurements/proof as the improvement is seen in the very low frequencies.
PS: As for using a MiniDSP, it may/may not work for time aligning the front speaker + sub crossover. If you need to add delay post Dirac (unlikely), it would help. If you need to subtract delay from the sub it may do this if you purposely leave cushion when you initially setup the MiniDSP for the subs, but you'd be delaying the LFE also when you adjust this later. This could also throw off your center and rear speakers that are crossed to the subs. Again a consequence of not having a time delay adjustments post Dirac when using just the XMC-1. Like I said, this PC idea is very optimum compared to other options and I posted it to help others. Don't get me wrong though, you'd see some improvement using a MiniDSP.
My interpretation is that Dirac correcting your subwoofer/main as a single channel (versus the XMC-1 correcting the subwoofer and main individually, then combining their corrected response) is the reason for the difference. I don't and have never disputed that the results are different. I could be wrong, but no way to tell without eliminating that variable from the equation.
It's entirely possible for Dirac to do different things on different platforms. They control the servers that do all the work so they're a black box to us. From a marketing perspective, it seems like they would be pumping up the PC offering's better correction if it existed, no? They already flout the extra features/functionality and high-res.
Yes, they look great and I'm interested to know why, but not so interested that I'll do a trial. If the price wasn't so high, I'd get it just for HTPC content, but the cost/benefit just isn't there for me at that pricepoint. Provide us incontrovertible evidence and we can harass Emotiva for providing us a watered down version.
-tm
This makes one wonder why you feel the need to keep insisting I measure just the front speaker by itself. It is already just the sub, and 99% of the improvement you see in the measurements is the low frequencies anyways (more phase coherence below 60Hz, better waterfall plot, etc...). For the freq range I'm talking about it is already essentially just the sub that is running, no need to take the front speaker out, it is honestly just the sub response Dirac is correcting for these frequencies.
If you want, feel free to post measurements here though. Since my main speakers have a 39Hz 3dB point it is crazy that you want me to plot this anyway when I've said no. Like I said, most improvement is in the low freq range.
It'd be nice to have comparisons on two different systems in two different rooms. To be honest, Emotiva is very busy and unlikely to care if just one user does this. They are great folks there though, but I can see them saying my room is an exception as I have 12 bass traps, etc... and they'd be absolutely right in saying my room is NOT typical.
In closing, the SUB is the contributor in the 15-30Hz region, crossover and main speaker affect is negligible at the frequencies where there is the most improvement. No reason to verify this and I'm not wasting my time. Please don't ask again, and this absolutely does not devalue my measurements/proof as the improvement is seen in the very low frequencies.
PS: As for using a MiniDSP, it may/may not work for time aligning the front speaker + sub crossover. If you need to add delay post Dirac (unlikely), it would help. If you need to subtract delay from the sub it may do this if you purposely leave cushion when you initially setup the MiniDSP for the subs, but you'd be delaying the LFE also when you adjust this later. This could also throw off your center and rear speakers that are crossed to the subs. Again a consequence of not having a time delay adjustments post Dirac when using just the XMC-1. Like I said, this PC idea is very optimum compared to other options and I posted it to help others. Don't get me wrong though, you'd see some improvement using a MiniDSP.
It's entirely possible for Dirac to do different things on different platforms. They control the servers that do all the work so they're a black box to us. From a marketing perspective, it seems like they would be pumping up the PC offering's better correction if it existed, no? They already flout the extra features/functionality and high-res.
Yes, they look great and I'm interested to know why, but not so interested that I'll do a trial. If the price wasn't so high, I'd get it just for HTPC content, but the cost/benefit just isn't there for me at that pricepoint. Provide us incontrovertible evidence and we can harass Emotiva for providing us a watered down version.
-tm
