KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Sept 12, 2018 10:56:27 GMT -5
Errrrrr.......
But you have to run down and change the CD anyway... Isn't the whole point of a setup like that NOT having to do that?
It has nothing to do with the fully balanced, and much more to do with the location of my equipment. Right now I have a A-700 doing some of my Atmos channels, and the other channels supporting my outdoor speakers. I am able to use my Marantz to control all of my zones. And since all of my input devices are already attached to my processor it just makes sense to go this way, I find adding a sonos actually would in a way complicate things since it would just be another system to install and manage that would be separate from the media room setup. I am sure there are some advantages in a Sonos system as well, but I was just asking if there would be a way for the RMC to have that same function that the Marantz has with the multiple zones. Perhaps I didn't make it clear with my smiley face. My balanced pool system comment was a joke as I can't think of any reason why it would be beneficial and add to the reason why there are better tools for zones than the RMC and the app. My comments about the Sonos system comes from a personal story. I have the Sonos system and love it. All hidden away in a storage closet and complete control by phone, tablet, or voice (Alexa). I had a "friend" who wanted to use his Marantz AVR for his Zone 2 patio area. I suggested Sonos for all the reasons I listed above. He insisted on using the Marantz. He purchased a used UPA-200 amp to power the speakers. Day 1 of using the system he didn't like that he could turn on the system using the Marantz app but he could not get the app to start playing a CD. So he had to run downstairs to push play. His solution was to purchase a cheap universal remote control and an IR repeater system and programmed the remote to the CD player. Now he can start playing songs or skip tracks, but he is using an app to power on and control volume and a remote to control music selection. He also complains because when playing a compilation disc, he cannot see the list of song on his remote or app. Issues that do not exist with a Sonos system. Now he wants to add speakers in his garage. He is buying another amp and y-adapter to split the signal and another remote for the garage with another IR repeater system. All this gear so he can have the same control a Sonos system gives him. If you did something similar with the RMC-1 you can use the extra channels of your amp and the Emo app to control your RMC, but I'm guessing you would run into the same source device issue. I don't believe the Emo app shows you track information like artist, song title, etc, unless those things are available when using the RMC to stream from your network. I feel the Sonos system is a better tool for the job. I can't think of any situation where the Zone 2 and/or Zone 3 system would be as easy to use or as flexible as an audio distribution system like Sonos or the offerings from Paradigm or Denon. I don't understand your want to use existing amp channels, but I think it's a disadvantage to use the RMC zone for anything other than feeding the same source to an adjoining room or lobby. In my last home my zone two ran a pair of speakers in the bathroom... for those times you have to visit the restroom but don't want to miss out on the (audio of) of the game. |
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Post by deewan on Sept 12, 2018 11:12:41 GMT -5
Errrrrr....... But you have to run down and change the CD anyway... Isn't the whole point of a setup like that NOT having to do that? Great point. I rarely use CD's anymore since my entire CD collection is also on my phone and music server. And since it's all on my phone I can control anything and everything with my music using an the Sonos app. Only time I struggle is when I'm using the Marantz 7704 for it's FM tuner and my Sonos system. Then I have to use two apps if I want to change the station and the volume.  Granted, some of my concerns go away dependent on how and what the RMC will be able to stream. Any everyone should do what's best for them. But before asking for additional zones in the RMC I just wanted to let a few people know its my opinion there are better solutions. Getting back to a more specific RMC question, I haven't seen it mentioned or anyone ask yet. If a person with a 40% off card orders an RMC-1 with one or more expansion bays installed, does the 40% discount apply only to the $4999 cost or to the overall cost with the expansion bays? |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 12, 2018 11:15:47 GMT -5
Unless a fully balanced audio system with it's superior sound is needed by the pool. In which case I'll shut up. Same for needing fully balanced on any of the surround channels; like anyone would be able to hear a difference. Yes ... but wouldn’t you rather have balanced helicopter blades swirling over your head rather than unbalanced helicopter blades? 🤔 |
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richb
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Post by richb on Sept 12, 2018 11:16:54 GMT -5
Errrrrr....... But you have to run down and change the CD anyway... Isn't the whole point of a setup like that NOT having to do that? [Scotty] A CD, how quaint  [/Scotty] I have always considered Zones a PIA. There utility is dwindling with the advent of inexpensive streaming endpoints that come with support communities and regular software updates. - Rich |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Sept 12, 2018 11:20:18 GMT -5
I think it's kind of a matter of how you look at it.
If I was looking ONLY for a whole-home system that would conveniently play background music, then I would opt for a Sonos setup. However, the little Sonos boxes really aren't up to being the basis of a "real" home theater or stereo music system.
Therefore, I'm going to want a good "big system" in my home theater or stereo listening area.
Now it becomes a question of whether you want to use two different systems and tie them together somehow - or figure out how to run the rest of the house off your main system. Also note that, while the Sonos devices aren't all that expensive individually, the cost adds up if you want a lot of them. (So using a single zone amp to feed speakers in five different areas would be a LOT cheaper than buying five separate Sonos boxes.)
Personally, assuming I had both the budget and the need, I'd probably opt for a big pre/pro in my home theater, and Sonos in the rest of the house. (And a Sonos unit as one input to my main pre/pro for when I want to listen to background music in that room.)
Personally, I also see a physical CD player as a sort of non-starter for playing music remotely. If you have a single-disc player then you're going to be constantly making trips to change the disc. And I've never been a fan of multi-disc players.... (I'd much rather use a computer-based music file server.)
In fact, for a complete system, I'd probably do Sonos around the house... Sonos seems to have the whole "multi-room thing" down cold.
With a big pre/pro in my main listening area... And a computer-based music server in my main listening area... I would basically have my main system and a Sonos network. My music server could supply music from my collection to both... And the Sonos setup would supply streaming music to both... (Basically, either system could operate independently, or supply music to the other.)
 Any chance of a Zone 3 output on the RMC-1? I know it is a super specific request but for my outdoor set up I really enjoy the way I can control the volume for my patio speakers separately from my speakers that play towards the pool. I don't really need difference sources per say, just a way to control the volume levels independently of one another. Also an iOS app for the RMC would be amazing. It would be perfect to control everything from outside. This is what I do with my current Marantz as I can control everything from my phone on my patio. Is there a reason to ask for features in the RMC when devices like Sonos exist? Sonos would allow you to use analog outputs from sources like CD player, TV audio output a FM tuner, as well as playing music from your tablet, computer, phone or internet source. All controlled independent or synced together and the system is expandable past two or three zones. Sonos also already have a solid iOS app that allows you to control each zone from a mobile device or even your voice using Amazon's Alexa. Personally, I don't understand the desire to use an AVR or processor for whole home audio distribution when better and more flexible products exist and likely at a much lower cost. Unless a fully balanced audio system with it's superior sound is needed by the pool. In which case I'll shut up. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 12, 2018 11:36:53 GMT -5
Well to put the Zone issue back in context; whether you want to use a Zone Amp / Sonos type external system, or drive your external amp speakers directly from the Zone output — we need a Zone 2 output on any processor so that we can send ANY of our sources to other parts of our homes. Whether someone wants to use Roon, iTunes, TV, CDs or even Vinyl shouldn’t be for us to debate, the processor should be able to send a separately selectable signal to the Zone output. Whether we all want to pay for additional Zones at the processor is a reasonable discussion. I’m assuming it’s not just repurposing an output used for something else, because the ability to select a different source requires some kind of switching circuitry and hence additional cost. Maybe assigning additional Outputs with their own level controls to Zone 2 would meet davidl81’s needs and be within the existing architecture. |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Sept 12, 2018 11:42:53 GMT -5
I'm with KeithL on this one. I have all of my music RIP'ed on a server and play it via the Roon app on my iPhone which includes Music Selection, Volume Control, etc. About the only down side of using my DMC-1 (and I presume the RMC-1) is that my Front Porch Zone 2 can't play a Digital Source independently of the Main Zone in my Living Room. And that's only a problem when Friends' kids want to watch a Movie and I'd like to continue listening to Music on the Front Porch. But not a real biggie ... Casey |
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 12, 2018 12:01:33 GMT -5
That is a valid point. IMO having the balanced surround channels is almost just for bragging rights. I can't think that anyone in a blind test would ever be able to tell a difference. Yep. The only time it could make a potential difference is if you had powered surrounds, or you located your surround amps near the speakers. Long noise-canceling XLR's would be of value. Only need balanced interconnects to achieve that, which doesn't require internally balanced (discrete) circuitry. The only reason to go to that level is to ensure that there's no digital noise, which the processors have a lot of, getting into the pre amplifier circuitry. More channels means more digital "noise" inside the box. Cheers Gary |
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Post by thrillcat on Sept 12, 2018 12:09:28 GMT -5
Errrrrr....... But you have to run down and change the CD anyway... Isn't the whole point of a setup like that NOT having to do that? Great point. I rarely use CD's anymore since my entire CD collection is also on my phone and music server. And since it's all on my phone I can control anything and everything with my music using an the Sonos app. *sarcasm font enabled* But you're not getting full CD-quality on your deck???!?!?!?!?!?!!!?!?!! |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 12, 2018 13:16:49 GMT -5
Unless a fully balanced audio system with it's superior sound is needed by the pool. In which case I'll shut up. Same for needing fully balanced on any of the surround channels; like anyone would be able to hear a difference. While it’s unlikely one will need a fully balanced channel for Surround or Atmos, it’s quite possible you could want a balanced connection. I have the option of running a long speaker cable to my first Atmos speakers, I could also use an existing balanced line that happens to be there (we all have one of those ... right?). I could put a remote amp, like a pair of auto-on PA-1’s, with the speakers. This would be a better way to handle the signal, and if I need additional amp channels anyway, a valid configuration. However any of the new processors will handle that. |
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Post by rbk123 on Sept 12, 2018 13:33:47 GMT -5
Only need balanced interconnects to achieve that, which doesn't require internally balanced (discrete) circuitry. The only reason to go to that level is to ensure that there's no digital noise, which the processors have a lot of, getting into the pre amplifier circuitry. More channels means more digital "noise" inside the box. Pure marketing snake oil. Competent circuit designers won't allow that to happen, not to mention the huge s/n ratios that DACS possess. And then there is neither enough information nor of a high enough quality that one could remotely discern a difference between a balanced vs. an unbalanced surround. While it’s unlikely one will need a fully balanced channel for Surround or Atmos, it’s quite possible you could want a balanced connection. I have the option of running a long speaker cable to my first Atmos speakers, I could also use an existing balanced line that happens to be there (we all have one of those ... right?). I could put a remote amp, like a pair of auto-on PA-1’s, with the speakers. This would be a better way to handle the signal, and if I need additional amp channels anyway, a valid configuration. However any of the new processors will handle that. Yep, agree. And just like Gary said you only need balanced interconnects to obtain that benefit. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 12, 2018 13:40:35 GMT -5
I find adding a sonos actually would in a way complicate things since it would just be another system to install and manage that would be separate from the media room setup. I am sure there are some advantages in a Sonos system as well, but I was just asking if there would be a way for the RMC to have that same function that the Marantz has with the multiple zones. As a heavy Sonos user, I will attest to the fact that you don't really have to "manage" them. And, their simplicity in use with ability to easily group multiple zones and adjust volume as a group or separately, as well as ability to play different things in different zones is a HUGE benefit. Before I had it, I would not have imagined how useful they are. And...my wife and both kids can easily use them and control from their preferred devices. Mark |
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Post by davidl81 on Sept 12, 2018 14:24:05 GMT -5
I find adding a sonos actually would in a way complicate things since it would just be another system to install and manage that would be separate from the media room setup. I am sure there are some advantages in a Sonos system as well, but I was just asking if there would be a way for the RMC to have that same function that the Marantz has with the multiple zones. As a heavy Sonos user, I will attest to the fact that you don't really have to "manage" them. And, their simplicity in use with ability to easily group multiple zones and adjust volume as a group or separately, as well as ability to play different things in different zones is a HUGE benefit. Before I had it, I would not have imagined how useful they are. And...my wife and both kids can easily use them and control from their preferred devices. Mark I am not against a Sonos setup, and if I had a blank slate I may have gone that route. But as I am currently setup a RMC-1 with both the Z2 and Z3 options would be perfect for me (basically a direct replacement for my AV8802a). I only brought it up as Keith mentioned that they would listen to feedback about future upgrade modules and this would be something that I would be interested in. |
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Post by Bonzo on Sept 12, 2018 18:35:03 GMT -5
As a heavy Sonos user, I will attest to the fact that you don't really have to "manage" them. And, their simplicity in use with ability to easily group multiple zones and adjust volume as a group or separately, as well as ability to play different things in different zones is a HUGE benefit. Before I had it, I would not have imagined how useful they are. And...my wife and both kids can easily use them and control from their preferred devices. Mark I am not against a Sonos setup, and if I had a blank slate I may have gone that route. But as I am currently setup a RMC-1 with both the Z2 and Z3 options would be perfect for me (basically a direct replacement for my AV8802a). I only brought it up as Keith mentioned that they would listen to feedback about future upgrade modules and this would be something that I would be interested in. As I've said before, make a single analog module that has 8 RCA inputs, and 1 stereo pair output. Make it switchable so the 8 inputs can either run as 5.1 with 1 stereo pair, 7.1, or 4 stereo pairs. And make the output selectable as variable output (zone 3) or fixed (record out). That's the module I want to see. Its all analog. Emotiva is great at all analog, so it should be easy for them. |
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Post by lrobertson on Sept 12, 2018 21:09:33 GMT -5
I would definitely not be against 8 unbalanced outputs on a module if it were to cut the cost down with similar performance. If it frees up processing for more channels even better but I’m not sure how exactly that works. I wonder if such a module could act as both and input or output depending on your needs.
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Post by liv2teach on Sept 12, 2018 21:48:33 GMT -5
Quick question:
I'm hooking up my Marantz 8802...seven of the outputs are going to an Emotiva Sherbourne PA7-350.... I was going to use the XLR connections... The other 4 outputs are going to an older Rotel 1075 that doesn't have XLR connections...just the unbalanced RCA.
Can I mix and match? Does the Marantz send a signal out both outputs at the same time? Is this safe to do? I suppose if I can't, rather than spring for a new amp, I'll just go RCA interconnects all around for now.
Same question for the sub outs...Does anyone know if the XLR sub outs are active at the same time as the rca sub outs? It will save me splitting since I have to go five ways (four subs and a setup of butt kickers)....
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 12, 2018 22:23:47 GMT -5
^^^ You’ve chosen the RMC-1 thread to ask a Marantz question? Why not the V3 thread? 🤔
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Post by novisnick on Sept 12, 2018 22:49:04 GMT -5
^^^ You’ve chosen the RMC-1 thread to ask a Marantz question? Why not the V3 thread? 🤔 Can you help me fix my DodViper? 😆 |
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Post by liv2teach on Sept 12, 2018 23:26:09 GMT -5
^^^ You’ve chosen the RMC-1 thread to ask a Marantz question? Why not the V3 thread? 🤔 The Marantz is a fill in while I continue to wait for the RMC....which seems to be getting longer and longer.... I figured since I knew a few of the fellows on this thread also have a Marantz, they might be the ones to ask..... Sort of the friendly face, friendly place sort of thing....you know? |
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Post by cwt on Sept 12, 2018 23:56:54 GMT -5
^^^ You’ve chosen the RMC-1 thread to ask a Marantz question? Why not the V3 thread? 🤔 The Marantz is a fill in while I continue to wait for the RMC....which seems to be getting longer and longer.... I figured since I knew a few of the fellows on this thread also have a Marantz, they might be the ones to ask..... Sort of the friendly face, friendly place sort of thing....you know? Just as a 1 off [off topic] as I have a yam 5100 and am doing what you want to do ; I am running 7ch balanced to a Elektra theaterhd and 4 ch unbalanced to a class d rotel and a class a/b basx a150 [temporarily]no worries . Apart from the higher pre out level for the balanced which is easily levelled with a spl meter its fine A good read here ; bluewizard knows whats what  www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2-channel-audio/1779561-use-balanced-unbalanced-same-time-other.html |
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