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Post by adaboy on Sept 8, 2016 18:41:59 GMT -5
Bonzo I hate to say this but legacy video connections are ancient. It's time to retire it. I'm surprised they even included multichannel analog inputs. Would be neat if there was a standard legacy box with all of the old school connectors like s-video, composite, and component plugins that attach to modern devises via one connection. That way people can still have access to memories without wasting space on new units. (Maybe Emotiva can lead the way with it.) |
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klinemj
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Official Emofest Scribe
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Post by klinemj on Sept 8, 2016 19:17:24 GMT -5
I can't believe I didn't notice this photo in LCSeminole's pictures.
I'm in no rush for a new pre/pro - but it's nice to have an XMC-1 that I got with 40% off and have the 25% UFL membership. If I do want one, I can sell the XMC-1 for a reasonable price, but the big boy at 25% off, and be a happy camper.
Mark
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Post by junchoon on Sept 8, 2016 19:34:01 GMT -5
I am with Bonzo Expecting more xlr inputs. One pair is not enough What about reference RCA outputs? Use zone 2? What about Phono? Not stated but I hope it does bi-amp for front two, if not front three I hope this is just a hoax pic to stir up conversations  |
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Sept 8, 2016 19:53:19 GMT -5
I can't believe I didn't notice this photo in LCSeminole's pictures. I'm in no rush for a new pre/pro - but it's nice to have an XMC-1 that I got with 40% off and have the 25% UFL membership. If I do want one, I can sell the XMC-1 for a reasonable price, but the big boy at 25% off, and be a happy camper. Mark I can't believe it took until today for a thread to start about this!   |
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Post by petew on Sept 8, 2016 20:23:25 GMT -5
I can't believe I didn't notice this photo in LCSeminole's pictures. I'm in no rush for a new pre/pro - but it's nice to have an XMC-1 that I got with 40% off and have the 25% UFL membership. If I do want one, I can sell the XMC-1 for a reasonable price, but the big boy at 25% off, and be a happy camper. Mark I can't believe it took until today for a thread to start about this! DITTO!! |
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Post by novisnick on Sept 8, 2016 20:42:31 GMT -5
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Post by richardrc on Sept 8, 2016 22:42:29 GMT -5
Very clean rear panel, getting rid of all the superfluous I/O. Hopefully spending the money where it ultimately counts, DACs and final output drive with a very low noise design. It should be a very clean case inside, which is a positive on so many levels. Looks to me like it will be deserving of the RMC label, a processor for dedicated HT rooms. Perhaps we will be pleasantly surprised by the final price? IF the XMC-1 is anything to go by, try finding something else that sounds as good for the same $$$$. As for legacy, nuff said....
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Post by cwt on Sept 8, 2016 23:50:27 GMT -5
I could not disagree with you more. We are are the exact far ends of the spectrum on what we want. I'm glad someone started this thread from that picture, because when I saw it the other day I was seriously disappointed. I considered posting to the other thread but figured I'd just get bashed for being negative. From the looks of things, this processor will never be for me. This was touted as the monster end all of all processors, and from the usual Emotiva price point, for $5000+ it should be. For me that means lots of options, which means all kinds of inputs, and that most certainly means RCA analog, both audio and video. I want a monster processor to have it all, and this thing falls short for me. It certainly falls short of my thoughts and expectations of what this unit would be. When you say "others include superfluous audio/video jacks," I think you are wrong here, because the trend is the opposite for sure. Please point me to a newer processor with this. Or at least compare a company's newest design to one of just a few years ago. The trend is to loose input flexibility, not add it. Bonzo ; I had you in mind when I wrote this and foresaw your reaction so I tried to tone it down ; success-not  . Thats why I said audio /video jacks and not just audio . Case in point the current marantz/denon equivalents 8802a and even 7702 are crammed with superfluous composite and component video jacks and of course their coresponding analog rca's. I know you like the audio but the last time I used composite or even component was about 10 years ago . Dont think I have any love for hdmi either ; they have been caught out trying to catch up with UHD hi bandwidth throughput and are scrambling to accommodate dynamic hdr10 metadata ; one iteration after the last one hdmi2.1 .. Ide drop a few more opticals or coax digitals as well like loop 7 said . If there were source components with display port Ide put that in instead |
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Post by Bonzo on Sept 9, 2016 8:45:02 GMT -5
How about if Emotiva came up with a companion piece - sort of how the SP-1 relates to the DC-1? The companion box could have a kick butt phono preamp, a bunch of analog inputs, and video conversion capability. Software would make it appear as an extension of the RMC-1. Communication would be via the balanced inputs and one of the HDMI inputs on the RMC-1. Control would happen over ethernet and be completely transparent to the user. I think that could be a very viable solution, if it were done so it was basically seamless. Something like this could also be a bonus for their other "smaller" processors that already have less inputs. If something like this did exist, what should we expect I wonder? Something this picture of the RMC-1 is totally missing is the 7.1 analog inputs. That's usually something only higher ends units have, so now they are losing them??? Many people will probably call these superfluous, but I don't think so. If you have a high end Oppo player that has these outputs, and you listen to multi-track discs like SACD and DVD-As, then you need these inputs to allow you to use the Sabre DAC's within the Oppo. Many will say why bother with that, but I say why loose that option? So if we had a companion module like you suggest, then the RMC-1 would still need to change. It would need 7.1 added, and then have (1) 2 channel for the module. I would then say it also needs at least (2) XLR balanced inputs (if maybe not 3). In terms of the legacy video stuff, I'm sorry, but there are people out there that still use their VCR's for old video's and home movies etc. Not all the time no, but they are still in use. Yeah, they are going out of production, but they still sold over 600,000 units last year. So they are still in use. The module should have at least one composite video input. I'd also add 1 component set input just to cover things. And then it would need to up-convert those to and HDMI output to plug into one of the HDMI inputs on the RMC-1. So at first bat with this module, let's see..... Inputs(6) 2 channel RCA (1) 2 channel RCA phono, with phono pre-amp built in (1) Composite Video (linked to one of the 2 channel RCA's so video/sound would be together) (1) Component Video set (linked to one of the 2 channel RCA's so video/sound would be together) Outputs(1) 2 channel RCA (1) HDMI (1) Module signal output And the RMC-1 would need....(1) set of 7.1 RCA added (1) only 1 set of 2 ch RCA to hook up with the module (2) XLR 2 channel inputs (1) Module signal input What else? Or what other ideas could be added or changed? Perhaps others could help in the brain storming effort? |
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Post by Bonzo on Sept 9, 2016 8:54:41 GMT -5
Bonzo ; I had you in mind when I wrote this It feels so nice to be thought about.  I think you were fairly successful actually. You didn't make me blow my top. You call them crammed and I call them lacking. You're right, I don't see the needs for 3 sets of component or composite, but one set is certainly useful. But they lack enough digital (toslink or RCA) inputs, and they absurdly don't have any digital outputs. This makes the XMC-1 more interesting for me. I have them both in use right now. I think the XMC-1 has the magic number of 6. I would not complain about the RMC-1 having 8, only if it had more of the other stuff. I would fall back to 6 to gain in other places. |
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Post by garbulky on Sept 9, 2016 9:19:19 GMT -5
What are you using the component cables for?
For me a reference processor is really all about the sound. If they can get there with a ton of other things sure. But I wouldn't mind if it had very few inputs but stellar quality. Even if they forgoed the phono jack (though I can see that as being an issue for a lot).
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Sept 9, 2016 9:23:36 GMT -5
Obviously not every product is for every customer...... The new pre/pro is designed to provide superb performance - and mostly for people who plan to use it with other modern high-end components. If you have unbalanced analog AUDIO sources, then it's simple enough to just use a passive adapter on the input; they won't degrade the sound at all and they don't cost much. Likewise, while most of the amplifiers you're likely to use with a $5k pre/pro will have balanced inputs, a simple adapter will allow you to connect our balanced outputs to unbalanced inputs as well. As for composite and component VIDEO sources.... The reality there is that you won't find modern equipment that uses composite any more - except maybe some portable stuff (and it isn't capable of getting even a good picture by today's standards). Even component video has pretty well been done away with and replaced by HDMI. And, if you really have something with that sort of output, you wan use a converter for that as well. (You won't find too many phono preamps that support pre-RIAA EQ curves, or many turntables that can play 78 rpm records, either.) In order to retain all those different input options, we'd have to make the unit itself more expensive, and we'd have to double the size to make room on the back panel for all the inputs. We figure both of those options would be more of a deal breaker than making you use an adapter if you want an unbalanced audio connection, and eliminating a few inputs that barely anyone uses any more. I could not disagree with you more. We are are the exact far ends of the spectrum on what we want. I'm glad someone started this thread from that picture, because when I saw it the other day I was seriously disappointed. I considered posting to the other thread but figured I'd just get bashed for being negative. From the looks of things, this processor will never be for me. This was touted as the monster end all of all processors, and from the usual Emotiva price point, for $5000+ it should be. For me that means lots of options, which means all kinds of inputs, and that most certainly means RCA analog, both audio and video. I want a monster processor to have it all, and this thing falls short for me. It certainly falls short of my thoughts and expectations of what this unit would be. When you say "others include superfluous audio/video jacks," I think you are wrong here, because the trend is the opposite for sure. Please point me to a newer processor with this. Or at least compare a company's newest design to one of just a few years ago. The trend is to loose input flexibility, not add it. Bonzo ; I had you in mind when I wrote this and foresaw your reaction so I tried to tone it down ; success-not . Thats why I said audio /video jacks and not just audio . Case in point the current marantz/denon equivalents 8802a and even 7702 are crammed with superfluous composite and component video jacks and of course their coresponding analog rca's. I know you like the audio but the last time I used composite or even component was about 10 years ago . Dont think I have any love for hdmi either ; they have been caught out trying to catch up with UHD hi bandwidth throughput and are scrambling to accommodate dynamic hdr10 metadata ; one iteration after the last one hdmi2.1 .. Ide drop a few more opticals or coax digitals as well like loop 7 said . If there were source components with display port Ide put that in instead |
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Post by Bonzo on Sept 9, 2016 10:38:41 GMT -5
What are you using the component cables for? You have to remember, I'm still using my old Denon that doesn't even have DVI let alone HDMI. So the only way I can get it's on screen menu's to work (or send video for my VCR) is to hook it to the TV via component (or composite, but I used component). I use a composite feed from my VCR to the Denon. I also use composite to feed my old camera and super old Sony Video 8 direct to the TV. I do now have one of the VCR to DVD recorders in my system, which I plan to use to transfer some of my old VCR stuff to disc. But I've had no time in my life to do that as of yet. Understood. That's totally reasonable and I get it. For me a reference processor simply means more than that. It means great cake and eat the whole thing too, not great cake but you only get to eat half. As the RMC-1 is pictured in this thread, I just don't see much appeal to it over the XMC-1 for me. For double the price, you get a fully balanced unit (what that really means in terms of sound has yet to be proven; some would guess a lot, some would guess none), more channels (but when compared to the upcoming XMC-1 Gen 3 with 7.2.4 capability, is there really so much difference for most people?), and a few more digital inputs. I think that's it but please correct me if I'm wrong. But you lose the 7.1 analog in, (1) analog in, the tape loop out, and the ability to use the RCA and XLR outputs simultaneously for things like bi-amping. Nope, for my system, my room, and my needs, at half the price, I'll stick with the new upcoming XMC-1 Gen 3. I'm already budgeting for it. |
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Post by Bonzo on Sept 9, 2016 11:11:49 GMT -5
Obviously not every product is for every customer...... Very true. I predicted this is what you'd say. See one of my posts above. Totally debatable, and results will certainly vary. Some are very cheap pieces of crap. I'm starting sense a trend here. And here I don't necessarily disagree, since the original video quality isn't great to begin with. But again, as above, quality could vary. Understood. But really, THAT much more expensive? Adding what you already are calling other companies inexpensive adapters to an Emotiva unit will be really expensive? I thought Emotiva were the experts at providing super high quality at the very lowest of prices. Okay now, that's a complete exaggeration for sure. From the picture attached, you've already managed the hard part of cramming all the balanced electronics in there and kept it fairly small, so kudos. But you are saying you'd have to go from 5" tall to 10" tall? Or 6" to 12"? No you wouldn't. 5" to 7" or 6" to 8" would be more like it. Like I said before, for which big time audio/video-phile would that stop them from buying a full blown 16 channel unit? Slim to none is my answer. Per my 2 posts above, I think you can tell I disagree. I'll stick with the XMC-1 Gen 3. |
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Post by chaosrv on Sept 9, 2016 11:34:40 GMT -5
I think it was a smart move to leave out a phono stage. This is supposed to be their reference channel processor. If anyone is spending upwards of $5,000 on a processor and is also into vinyl has likely already spent a great deal of oney on their turntable & standalone phono stage.
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Post by Loop 7 on Sept 9, 2016 11:50:13 GMT -5
As a person responsible for determining optimal features for products (mobile apps), I try to always EXCLUDE edge cases or functionality that will be used by only by a tiny percentage of the customers. By leaving out these edge cases, the majority of users can often enjoy a better and simpler experience.
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Post by cwt on Sept 9, 2016 12:18:26 GMT -5
As the RMC-1 is pictured in this thread, I just don't see much appeal to it over the XMC-1 for me. For double the price, you get a fully balanced unit (what that really means in terms of sound has yet to be proven; some would guess a lot, some would guess none), more channels (but when compared to the upcoming XMC-1 Gen 3 with 7.2.4 capability, is there really so much difference for most people?), and a few more digital inputs. I think that's it but please correct me if I'm wrong. But you lose the 7.1 analog in, (1) analog in, the tape loop out, and the ability to use the RCA and XLR outputs simultaneously for things like bi-amping. Nope, for my system, my room, and my needs, at half the price, I'll stick with the new upcoming XMC-1 Gen 3. I'm already budgeting for it. Ide wait a little for more info Bonzo ; will this have dirac unison as standard or is it more likely the xmc1 will get it as an extra cost option ? considering the price whats more likely ? dirac unison may well give better results in this incarnation due to its channel count ; not to mention better atmos/dts-x if they come up with a chipset that does more than the current 7 bed 4 ceiling limit.. For many though with ht's of average size your right the xmc1 mk3 is the sweet spot for value . You never know you may decide you want room eq with your oppo ; not happening with the sabre dac version ; always get the "transport version" and save some money If you have any interest in the upcoming uhd oppo bluray player the price may make it an easy decision  More things we dont know about ; hdmi versions uhh  |
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Post by petew on Sept 9, 2016 12:44:22 GMT -5
Responding to Bonzo's earlier post...
I can't see a compelling reason to go with the RMC-1 vs. Atmos version of the XMC-1 either. That said, the RMC-1 is going to be a killer piece.
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Post by cwt on Sept 9, 2016 13:14:08 GMT -5
Okay now, that's a complete exaggeration for sure. From the picture attached, you've already managed the hard part of cramming all the balanced electronics in there and kept it fairly small, so kudos. But you are saying you'd have to go from 5" tall to 10" tall? Or 6" to 12"? No you wouldn't. 5" to 7" or 6" to 8" would be more like it. Like I said before, for which big time audio/video-phile would that stop them from buying a full blown 16 channel unit? Slim to none is my answer. Its good we have a yardstick here Bonzo ; The DENON AVP-A1 also has duplicate unbalanced circuitry input to output and is 8.4" high ; considering adding the extra channels on top of this with double circuitry... Now consider all the power amps for the object audio . I like small chassis rather a bit if you cant tell Its a good thing class d is available to help www.cnet.com/products/denon-avp-a1hdci/specs/ |
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Post by Bonzo on Sept 9, 2016 16:49:28 GMT -5
Okay, here it is!!!
The BMC-1!!!
Bonzo's Master Controller!!!!!  BMC-1.pdf (2.19 MB) All I did was do a super crappy job with PS and AI to see what I could come up if I combined the XMC-1 and RMC-1 and also added a few more things. Just a first run and completely for fun. Now I'm not saying this could be done exactly like this. And I'm not saying it could be done at this height fitting all the inputs/outputs (although as you can see here, it's only slightly higher than the XMC-1 - look at the top corners for reference) or squeezing all the added fully balanced stuff inside (especially using Emotiva's modular structure) or still having all the legal print crap on back. But THIS is more like what I'm talking about. This would represent much more of a processor king for me. Everything the XMC-1 is, and much more. This I would buy. Note: Actually, from what I can tell, Emotiva's own drawing of the RMC-1 is a bit of a stretch trying to get all 16 XLR's and the power cord plug across the bottom. I couldn't do it using an actual XMC-1 image. I'm not sure it would all fit in reality.Cheers --- Bonzo
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. Thats why I said audio /video jacks and not just audio . Case in point the current marantz/denon equivalents 8802a and even 7702 are crammed with superfluous composite and component video jacks and of course their coresponding analog rca's.
More things we dont know about ; hdmi versions uhh 
