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Post by beardedalbatross on Dec 17, 2016 19:03:53 GMT -5
My only real impetus for DSD is that I and a few friends have merged all of our CD collections in a Lossless FLAC collection. One of my friends has been contributing lots of High-Resolution Audio files. This was fine when he stuck to PCM 192kHz/24bit and lower, but he got onto the DSD Bandwagon in a big way for a while (thankfully he's backed off and mostly sticks to 96kHz/24bit now). This means that we have a fair number of DSD tracks which I need to dynamically convert down to 96kHz/24bit (the limit of my aging Logitech Squeeze Box Touch).e for getting my digital audio data into the RMC-1. Casey You realize this is a public forum where I believe most people buy the music they want to hear, not copy it from friends, etc. Russ What a strange purity test. The user states he and his friends all purchase high quality music. |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Dec 17, 2016 22:01:44 GMT -5
And then give it to each other. It's not supposed to work like that.  Russ |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 17, 2016 23:18:00 GMT -5
Actually we're within "fair use". And we often have multiple copies of said music.
Casey
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Post by yves on Dec 18, 2016 17:16:56 GMT -5
It would probably work (as long as it's USB3.0 since USB2.0 is just barely adequate for high-bandwidth audio), but it's not really clear that Emotiva has any real interest in DSD and I can't really blame them since it a "solution in search of a problem". My only real impetus for DSD is that I and a few friends have merged all of our CD collections in a Lossless FLAC collection. One of my friends has been contributing lots of High-Resolution Audio files. This was fine when he stuck to PCM 192kHz/24bit and lower, but he got onto the DSD Bandwagon in a big way for a while (thankfully he's backed off and mostly sticks to 96kHz/24bit now). This means that we have a fair number of DSD tracks which I need to dynamically convert down to 96kHz/24bit (the limit of my aging Logitech Squeeze Box Touch). And honestly, I just want to stream directly across Ethernet into the RMC-1. I don't really want the extra box and power cord/wart. And I definitely don't want to have to "figure out" some crazy Raspberry Pi/Linux/Roon/etc. solution — I spend enough time on that at work! But I also get why Emotiva wouldn't be interested in spending scarce engineering resources on things like Roon which are so far merely "interesting" as opposed to "Industry Standards". So I'm accepting that I will probably have to figure something out and get my hands dirty. So, I'm just trying to determine what the best solution will be for getting my digital audio data into the RMC-1. Casey USB 2.0 can handle up to 480 Mbit/s (theoretical), whereas 8-channel 32-bit 384 kHz PCM or 8-channel 12.288 MHz DSD audio playback requires only 93.75 Mbit/s so I haven't got a clue where you got your assertion of "USB 2.0 is just barely adequate for high-bandwidth audio". I may be wrong, but I believe the exaSound e38 DAC can do all that. |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 18, 2016 17:30:22 GMT -5
My friend has a Mac Mini directly connected to his Teac NT-503 via USB and is using Roon to drive it. I believe that he has the 3TB Music Volume (mostly FLAC) connected via Thunderbolt in order to leave the USB solely to the Teac. He tried running DSD256 across the USB but wasn't able to keep the Teac fed properly. Apparently the Teac is dragging the bus down to USB2.0 and combined with the Half-Duplex nature of USB2.0 and the various signaling on the bus, things just aren't making it across.
Casey
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Post by qdtjni on Dec 18, 2016 18:48:12 GMT -5
If you rely on UAC2 support in MacOS (and Linux) and don't have a dedicated driver and/or player for native DSD to your DAC, DSD only works over PCM, i.e. DoP.
For DoP to be able to transfer DSD256 over PCM, you need a DAC that can handle 786kHz.
The TEAC Dac mentioned above can handle up to 384 kHz, hence DSD256 wasn't possible with player used ot the settings were not set to use native DSD.
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Post by yves on Dec 18, 2016 19:03:29 GMT -5
My friend has a Mac Mini directly connected to his Teac NT-503 via USB and is using Roon to drive it. I believe that he has the 3TB Music Volume (mostly FLAC) connected via Thunderbolt in order to leave the USB solely to the Teac. He tried running DSD256 across the USB but wasn't able to keep the Teac fed properly. Apparently the Teac is dragging the bus down to USB2.0 and combined with the Half-Duplex nature of USB2.0 and the various signaling on the bus, things just aren't making it across. Casey The problem you described is not due to limitations inherent of the USB 2.0 specification. www.xmos.com/download/private/Why-do-you-need-USB-Audio-Class-2%3F%281.0%29.pdf |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 18, 2016 20:17:26 GMT -5
Sorry, I'm being dense. I wandered through the specification for the USB Audio Class (UAC) Standard for a while, but it wasn't immediately clear why you were referencing it. Were you pointing that out because either or both of the Apple Mac Mini or the Teac NT-503 aren't compliant with the USB Audio standards? Or to say that they are, and that therefore something else in my friend's setup is to blame — not USB 2.0. I'm just trying to get where you're going with this.
Casey
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Post by audiosyndrome on Dec 18, 2016 20:34:17 GMT -5
Actually we're within "fair use". And we often have multiple copies of said music. Casey Sorry. IMO you and your friends are stealing. Music should be purchased not copied from others. Russ |
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Post by foggy1956 on Dec 18, 2016 20:55:21 GMT -5
Actually we're within "fair use". And we often have multiple copies of said music. Casey Sorry. IMO you and your friends are stealing. Music should be purchased not copied from others. Russ never burned a CD for a friend? |
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Post by beardedalbatross on Dec 18, 2016 21:16:41 GMT -5
Sorry. IMO you and your friends are stealing. Music should be purchased not copied from others. Russ never burned a CD for a friend? I suppose when that user goes out to a bar he plugs his ears and shields his eyes in case there is a pay per view event going on. |
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator 
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,831
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Post by LCSeminole on Dec 18, 2016 21:18:02 GMT -5
If anyone here wants to discuss or debate "Fair Use" of digital music files, please take it to the "Green Room" and start a thread there. This discussion is off-topic from the RMC-1 Processor subject. Thanks for everyone's cooperation.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 18, 2016 23:26:11 GMT -5
Sorry, I hadn't intended to cause any problems.
Casey
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Post by qdtjni on Dec 19, 2016 4:23:25 GMT -5
Sorry, I'm being dense. I wandered through the specification for the USB Audio Class (UAC) Standard for a while, but it wasn't immediately clear why you were referencing it. Were you pointing that out because either or both of the Apple Mac Mini or the Teac NT-503 aren't compliant with the USB Audio standards? Or to say that they are, and that therefore something else in my friend's setup is to blame — not USB 2.0. I'm just trying to get where you're going with this. Casey Both MacOS and that TEAC are compatible with UAC2. The problem is with native DSD and UAC, which is not really strict specified. So in almost all cases with Mac & Linux, unless you have DAC specific driver and/or your player program knows how to send native DSD to your DAC, you will use DoP (DSD over PCM). DoP has some overhead and to be able to send DSD256, you would need a DAC with bandwidth for 768 kHz. Since the TEAC DAC mentioned earlier does not go further than 384 kHz, with DoP DSD128 is max unless you use a player software that can supports DSD native with that DAC. Supposedly, the TEAC HR Audio Player does support DSD Native but that must then be setup in the settings. |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 19, 2016 12:11:26 GMT -5
Ah, thanks. That makes sense.
Of course, for my friend, all of this is supposed to get a lot easier since apparently Teac is promising a Roon Ready Firmware update for his Teac NT-503 which means he'll be able to just plug the Ethernet cable directly in. (He's already using Roon and loving it.)
Casey
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 22, 2016 12:41:28 GMT -5
By the way, if Emotiva is taking requests for features, I sure would love to see this allow for Firmware Upgrade over the net. It's so much easier to deal with Oppo's that way. You turn it on, it tells you that there's a Firmware Update available and asks you if you want to do it now or defer till later.
Casey
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Post by goozoo on Dec 22, 2016 13:59:48 GMT -5
Has there been any more specific timeline given for the release of the RMC? I know they plan on having it at one of the shows to showcase, but seems like some time in late 2017 before anyone gets their hands on one. Really hope they can come down from their $5K price point.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 22, 2016 14:02:33 GMT -5
Nope, no published time line. And I totally understand that. They've actually released more information than I would have expected.
I'm just throwing down for a feature that I (and I think a lot of others) would like to see ... And it's a feature that really shouldn't be that hard to implement.
I am of course waiting with much anticipation for more details on the product! Hopefully at CES 2017, but if not, later ...
Casey
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Post by rhale64 on Dec 22, 2016 14:13:54 GMT -5
Me too. I hope to hear something at CES.
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stiehl11
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Give me available light!
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Post by stiehl11 on Dec 22, 2016 14:38:33 GMT -5
Has there been any more specific timeline given for the release of the RMC? I know they plan on having it at one of the shows to showcase, but seems like some time in late 2017 before anyone gets their hands on one. Really hope they can come down from their $5K price point. With the XMC-1 at $2,500 (MSRP) and the XMC-2 likely being more, I would fathom that the RMC will near or at $5,000. |
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