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Post by lrobertson on May 11, 2018 19:44:25 GMT -5
Considering how much I’ve been pushing and asking for a product like the RMC-1 I’ll back it even if the pure content isn’t as abundant as I’d assumed it would be. I just hope it works itself out.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 11, 2018 20:12:44 GMT -5
SO, I've been playing catch up from missing quite a bit in this thread, and I want to make sure I am interpreting correctly what is being said...in a nutshell, even though Atmos in theory can leverage using a lot of speakers (7.1.6 and more), you guys are saying that a lot of content out there uses a lot less (such as a 7.1.4 configuration at most). So, if someone plays one of those disks through a system with more speakers, the additional channels would remain silent.
Is that correct? Sorry if I misunderstood, but the conversation is a bit hard to follow "after the fact".
Mark
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Post by lrobertson on May 11, 2018 20:23:33 GMT -5
SO, I've been playing catch up from missing quite a bit in this thread, and I want to make sure I am interpreting correctly what is being said...in a nutshell, even though Atmos in theory can leverage using a lot of speakers (7.1.6 and more), you guys are saying that a lot of content out there uses a lot less (such as a 7.1.4 configuration at most). So, if someone plays one of those disks through a system with more speakers, the additional channels would remain silent. Is that correct? Sorry if I misunderstood, but the conversation is a bit hard to follow "after the fact". Mark If what is being said is true there is a very convenient way for studios to simply choose to author the Atmos as 7.1 with only 4 objects which are pinned to the top speaker placements. So yeah in theory they are locking the system at 7.1.4 and it’s said to have been created for streaming but now it’s being used on uhd’s. This sounds like it might be verifiable because what some trinnov owners have been saying. One guy did say he was receiving info on the middle heights still though which is contradictory so I’m going to wait this one out and see and hopefully it works itself out. I had a hard time accepting this but they may be thinking of turning away from that original Atmos structure that was able to go all the way to 24.1.10 as if it’s the studios choice and not the defining criteria for Atmos. I can’t imagine pre pro manufacturers are going to allow this to keep going without a fight or some type of compromise on expanding past 7.1.4 considering that’s already common and processors need to be replaced for everyone’s revenue except of course Emotiva’s. There should at least be a requirement for the uhd’s considering they are capable of having the real Atmos. This is probably some cost accounting decision where they don’t want to add a needed layer on a disk or for all I know hitting that automatic 7.1.4 creator may be a whole lot cheaper and easier than converting the cinema version to the real home Atmos version. Or maybe like thrillcat was saying they have a marketing strategy and they want us upgrading to better uhd versions for the same movie. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 11, 2018 20:54:31 GMT -5
Thanks. I wasn't in a hurry for Atmos so now I am in less of a hurry.
Mark
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Post by rbk123 on May 11, 2018 21:00:40 GMT -5
Ditto on less of a hurry.
However, I do think the Atmos upgrade will improve the sound of DTS-HD and TruHD due to the newer and more powerful chips. So it still is very enticing.
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Post by lrobertson on May 11, 2018 21:23:59 GMT -5
That’s how I feel too. Emotiva should take their time and roll out the RMC-1 when they could take advantage of the best case scenario going forward.
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Post by Dan Laufman on May 11, 2018 23:27:17 GMT -5
SO, I've been playing catch up from missing quite a bit in this thread, and I want to make sure I am interpreting correctly what is being said...in a nutshell, even though Atmos in theory can leverage using a lot of speakers (7.1.6 and more), you guys are saying that a lot of content out there uses a lot less (such as a 7.1.4 configuration at most). So, if someone plays one of those disks through a system with more speakers, the additional channels would remain silent. Is that correct? Sorry if I misunderstood, but the conversation is a bit hard to follow "after the fact". Mark No, the other speakers will not remain silent. The Atmos and DTS-X up-mixers work very well and synthesize information for channels without discrete content. We use it all of the time and the Dolby up-mixer in particular sounds spectacular and extremely natural. We’re really hooked on 9.1.6!! Peace, Big dan |
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Post by cwt on May 12, 2018 1:50:39 GMT -5
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Post by lrobertson on May 12, 2018 8:01:47 GMT -5
Dan makes a good point that the 9.1.6 would still have a nice sound being able to fill in the speakers but the signals still won’t be based of the original object’s sound coding I was sold on which supports everything Dolby’s claimed as 24.1.10. Now we’re are back to matrixing objects it sounds like. If this becomes the new standard I could see a lot less demand for pushing it much further than 9.1.6 but I’ll still be in that crowd that won’t be afraid to play the mix non discrete and matrix. I just would have a hard time seeing a 24.1.10 system being desired without the content. I do feel bad for the 32 channel trinnov crowd if 7.1.4 is the norm going forward. If there is still quite a bit of real Atmos being released though (like over half uhd’s) I’m probably one of the few that would still want the RMC-1 offering expanding channels in some form. If it becomes a rare mix than the desire will go down.
I’m a little consfused too how you can upmix static objects if those are indeed what make up the 7.1.4 heights. I thought the principal behind objects were they were separated in nature to the content it would regularly upmix so I guess like the trinnov owners this will be less of a bitstream deal. You’d think if it was static objects they could at least write them in as large enough objects to carry over to other speakers in their areas.
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Post by mgbpuff on May 12, 2018 8:33:19 GMT -5
SO, I've been playing catch up from missing quite a bit in this thread, and I want to make sure I am interpreting correctly what is being said...in a nutshell, even though Atmos in theory can leverage using a lot of speakers (7.1.6 and more), you guys are saying that a lot of content out there uses a lot less (such as a 7.1.4 configuration at most). So, if someone plays one of those disks through a system with more speakers, the additional channels would remain silent. Is that correct? Sorry if I misunderstood, but the conversation is a bit hard to follow "after the fact". Mark No, the other speakers will not remain silent. The Atmos and DTS-X up-mixers work very well and synthesize information for channels without discrete content. We use it all of the time and the Dolby up-mixer in particular sounds spectacular and extremely natural. We’re really hooked on 9.1.6!! Peace, Big dan So Dan, what you are saying is if an Atmos bitstream file is limited to 7.1.4, instead play the PCM version (Dolby True HD or whatever) and use the Dolby Surround upmixer? But, unless you rewrite that upmixer, it only handles 11 channels. Do you have a new upmixer? |
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Post by lrobertson on May 12, 2018 8:35:46 GMT -5
So if you guys at Emotiva got the RMC-1 and these little issues handled I’d like to see the roll out say before any more Supreme Court rulings. Maybe at least a pre order option..
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Post by davidl81 on May 12, 2018 9:40:46 GMT -5
So if you guys at Emotiva got the RMC-1 and these little issues handled I’d like to see the roll out say before any more Supreme Court rulings. Maybe at least a pre order option.. I would not like to see any pre-order option. I could see how bad that would become if people pre-ordered it and the RMC release kept on getting pushed back. |
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Post by rbk123 on May 12, 2018 10:07:58 GMT -5
Agree on the no-preorder. What they should do is describe the remaining milestones to completion, and then just provide an update on progress against those milestones. They don't have to give dates, just progress and effort remaining.
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Post by lrobertson on May 12, 2018 10:13:09 GMT -5
If things like Dirac functionality is still in the air or other features I’d completely agree. Pre orders would come only if they knew and were set on the feature sets so they could let us know. I wouldn’t mind any hold ups though as long as we end up getting what we pay for. I could see why others wouldn’t want to and those not knowing might be participating in hold ups they never would of thought acceptable. I agree it’s probably not a smart business move unless the parts for mass production are in the mail or getting installed and they are a few weeks out.
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Post by lrobertson on May 12, 2018 11:00:31 GMT -5
With that 7.1.4 static material shouldn’t there be an available middle ground option that could be added in the signal before an old 7 channel system that could just pick up two or the four static objects to add two or four speakers without a new pre pro considering those height signals sounds like little to no processing. In my dedicated room I’d want the RMC-1 but most of my streaming is in my great room and if that could get a height boost on the cheap with that material and I can still make use of my pt-7030 that would be pretty cool. You’d think you could make it just pick up playback when objects are static at the right xyz for that format. Throwing in an optional reverb or plii z or the likes for all other 7.1 or real Atmos signal that breaks back down to 7.1 you’d think wouldn’t be the most demanding either. And Emotiva should tell them they don’t have to pay for licensing because they aren’t utilizing their 24.1.10 Atmos processing format haha. I don’t like Dolby anymore. If they don’t make a quality upmixer past 11 they better get it together and create one after this 7.1.4 bs. You’d think they could make the objects vary in size to give a proprietary upmixer some direction on what they’d be intending the objects to do when expanding or something. Dolby is essentially the government in this thing. It might be 30% dolby 70% studios but if the government lets the lobbyists screw the system they are to blame. When’s the government going to stand up for the little man.. haha. As I read in the trinnov forum “ first world problems”
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Post by thrillcat on May 12, 2018 11:44:40 GMT -5
SO, I've been playing catch up from missing quite a bit in this thread, and I want to make sure I am interpreting correctly what is being said...in a nutshell, even though Atmos in theory can leverage using a lot of speakers (7.1.6 and more), you guys are saying that a lot of content out there uses a lot less (such as a 7.1.4 configuration at most). So, if someone plays one of those disks through a system with more speakers, the additional channels would remain silent. Is that correct? Sorry if I misunderstood, but the conversation is a bit hard to follow "after the fact". Mark No, the other speakers will not remain silent. The Atmos and DTS-X up-mixers work very well and synthesize information for channels without discrete content. We use it all of the time and the Dolby up-mixer in particular sounds spectacular and extremely natural. We’re really hooked on 9.1.6!! Peace, Big dan Have you tried it on one of these new discs that is specifically labeled 7.1.4? (Thor: Ragnarok, Star Wars Las Jedi, some other one I can't remember) There are reports that on the Trinnov these discs that are hard-coded as 7.1.4 are not producing sound from channels outside of the 7.1.4. Just curious. Thanks. |
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Post by lrobertson on May 12, 2018 12:51:17 GMT -5
I did read them say they were able to take it out of bitstream to upmix so I’m not sure if that is a trinnov proprietary upmixer or the dts:x or Atmos upmixer but it would be nice to be sure those exact movies have no issues.
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Post by cwt on May 12, 2018 13:17:05 GMT -5
With that 7.1.4 static material shouldn’t there be an available middle ground option that could be added in the signal before an old 7 channel system that could just pick up two or the four static objects to add two or four speakers without a new pre pro considering those height signals sounds like little to no processing. In my dedicated room I’d want the RMC-1 but most of my streaming is in my great room and if that could get a height boost on the cheap with that material and I can still make use of my pt-7030 that would be pretty cool. Have a pt7030 as well and as appealing your height channel uptick would be ; it doesn't have an atmos decoder only a truehd/dts hdma etc one so will ignore any metadata objects sent with the bitstream  But if the hdmi 2.0 and atmos boards were compatible it would be winging its way to Tennesee as we speak  Pigs might fly both figuratively and metaphorically  Nothing to worry about you would think using a DTS NEURAL or DSU upmixer on a decoded 7.1.4 uhd disc soundtrack . As it always works once the bitstream is decoded to lpcm bass management ;dsp modes etc can manipulate the signal. |
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Post by lrobertson on May 12, 2018 13:24:07 GMT -5
With that 7.1.4 static material shouldn’t there be an available middle ground option that could be added in the signal before an old 7 channel system that could just pick up two or the four static objects to add two or four speakers without a new pre pro considering those height signals sounds like little to no processing. In my dedicated room I’d want the RMC-1 but most of my streaming is in my great room and if that could get a height boost on the cheap with that material and I can still make use of my pt-7030 that would be pretty cool. Have a pt7030 as well and as appealing your height channel uptick would be ; it doesn't have an atmos decoder only a truehd/dts hdma etc one so will ignore any metadata objects sent with the bitstream But if the hdmi 2.0 and atmos boards were compatible it would be winging its way to Tennesee as we speak Pigs might fly both figuratively and metaphorically That’s why I was curious if it had a say 2.0 hdmi in and 1.4 hdmi out pre pt-7030 in the signal chain. Or even using a hdmi splitter so there wouldn’t be any type of lag... Maybe...? Keith shot the idea down before but that is when it was dynamic object data and lots of processing. Wouldn’t the pt-7030 only see the 7.1 anyways? Im saying it would be a small separate system not something integral to just the 7030. |
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Post by lrobertson on May 12, 2018 13:33:28 GMT -5
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Pigs might fly both figuratively and metaphorically 
