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Post by jlafrenz on Sept 20, 2016 12:38:46 GMT -5
I on the other hand reccomend going big at the beginning. BECAUSE the tendency is to notice a difference even if it's very few like I did. Then basically dawdle on treating the rest (how much better can it get mentality). Garbulky nailed it! This is the number one problem with room treatment (lack there of). People don't do enough upfront and then wonder why their room didn't improve. Front soffit and 1st refection isn't going to tame a room. Don't dip your toe in, go ahead and jump in. It's a small fraction of your system (I assume) it is for most here. I don't think it is a matter of going all out so to speak at the beginning, but a matter of choosing the right panel for the application. There needs to be a balance of full treatment and what budget/comfort level will handle. I would only assume that many who take the plunge on acoustic panels simply purchase the lest expensive option which may not be correct for the room. Often times this is a simple 2" thick panel that is 2' x 4'. What the room really may need is a 6" thick bass trap. This could leave the end user underwhelmed. I think doing some research and choosing the appropriate product for the room's needs will help strike a balance and provide the best value to the system and listeners wallet. |
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Post by adaboy on Sept 20, 2016 12:42:05 GMT -5
Garbulky nailed it! This is the number one problem with room treatment (lack there of). People don't do enough upfront and then wonder why their room didn't improve. Front soffit and 1st refection isn't going to tame a room. Don't dip your toe in, go ahead and jump in. It's a small fraction of your system (I assume) it is for most here. I don't think it is a matter of going all out so to speak at the beginning, but a matter of choosing the right panel for the application. There needs to be a balance of full treatment and what budget/comfort level will handle. I would only assume that many who take the plunge on acoustic panels simply purchase the lest expensive option which may not be correct for the room. Often times this is a simple 2" thick panel that is 2' x 4'. What the room really may need is a 6" thick bass trap. This could leave the end user underwhelmed. I think doing some research and choosing the appropriate product for the room's needs will help strike a balance and provide the best value to the system and listeners wallet. That was a jump in with the correct treatments for the room. I recommend getting pro advice and going with it. |
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Post by creimes on Sept 20, 2016 12:42:30 GMT -5
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Post by brutiarti on Sept 20, 2016 12:47:27 GMT -5
All Corners: (if budget allows) First reflection points. Sides and/or front wall (they can be used for corners also)
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Post by jlafrenz on Sept 20, 2016 12:56:51 GMT -5
You know I have a DIY corner bass trap tutorial...  |
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Post by creimes on Sept 20, 2016 13:13:51 GMT -5
Here's a few photos of my room and they are all DIY panels, ones you can't see are two that lean against the wall behind my towers that are behind my screen, the only thing I am missing are bass traps, i did the test of taking them all down and then putting them back up and wow big difference in helping echo and reflections in my room. You know I have a DIY corner bass trap tutorial... Oh I would have built them at the same time but my room doesn't allow for them, doors in one corner and couch and lamp in the other and the other corners of the room are not worth it and no room either lol, otherwise I would have built them for sure  |
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Post by jcisbig on Sept 20, 2016 13:27:13 GMT -5
Hopefully I've successfully attached my MLP measurement to this post. I've applied no EQ to these measurements except for a couple filters on the sub to tame the worst of the peaks. That should give some idea of the various issues I have at my MLP. So yes, I will have the ability to measure before and after treatments. Any advice anyone can give me on what exactly I should be looking for in those sweeps would be helpful. Full Range Sweep.mdat (2.96 MB) |
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Post by jlafrenz on Sept 20, 2016 15:10:16 GMT -5
Hopefully I've successfully attached my MLP measurement to this post. I've applied no EQ to these measurements except for a couple filters on the sub to tame the worst of the peaks. That should give some idea of the various issues I have at my MLP. So yes, I will have the ability to measure before and after treatments. Any advice anyone can give me on what exactly I should be looking for in those sweeps would be helpful. View AttachmentI wasn't able to open the file. Not sure if others have the same issue. What software did you use? Are you able to upload a graph or similar in something like a jpeg? |
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Post by jcisbig on Sept 20, 2016 15:48:58 GMT -5
Hopefully I've successfully attached my MLP measurement to this post. I've applied no EQ to these measurements except for a couple filters on the sub to tame the worst of the peaks. That should give some idea of the various issues I have at my MLP. So yes, I will have the ability to measure before and after treatments. Any advice anyone can give me on what exactly I should be looking for in those sweeps would be helpful. View AttachmentI wasn't able to open the file. Not sure if others have the same issue. What software did you use? Are you able to upload a graph or similar in something like a jpeg? I believe it's just a typical REW file with the extension .mdat. Are others having the same issue? When I click on it it downloads a REW file that can be opened with REW. |
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Post by jlafrenz on Sept 20, 2016 21:40:08 GMT -5
I wasn't able to open the file. Not sure if others have the same issue. What software did you use? Are you able to upload a graph or similar in something like a jpeg? I believe it's just a typical REW file with the extension .mdat. Are others having the same issue? When I click on it it downloads a REW file that can be opened with REW. I figured that was probably the case. The computer I was using earlier didn't have REW on it. In looking at the file you have a lot of low end peaks that need to be tamed. This is going to require some thicker bass traps. As you move up the frequency range there are more sporadic peaks that are likely in the first reflection points. These two things are typical in a room and are both good places to start. Overall your room has a house curve to it. www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/96-house-curve-what-why-you-need-how-do.htmlDo you have any pictures or diagrams of your room? Do you have any flexibility in speaker placement? |
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Post by leonski on Sept 20, 2016 22:17:29 GMT -5
Just as an EXPERIMENT, get some friends over. Bigger = Better, in this case.
Take turns STANDING IN CORNERS as you evaluate bass. Work the corners which produce the best effect first.
We did this at a buddies house who is TOTALLY high end. He has 20 series Magnepans, as well as 2 other sets of speakers which are panels.
His biamp setup uses Emo monoblocs AND a Marchand crossover as well as other gear. I think he sold his Krell and some tube amps.
By doing the corner thing, we determined where a couple corner traps would have the best / most effect. Without spending a dime.
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Post by jcisbig on Sept 20, 2016 22:48:03 GMT -5
I believe it's just a typical REW file with the extension .mdat. Are others having the same issue? When I click on it it downloads a REW file that can be opened with REW. I figured that was probably the case. The computer I was using earlier didn't have REW on it. In looking at the file you have a lot of low end peaks that need to be tamed. This is going to require some thicker bass traps. As you move up the frequency range there are more sporadic peaks that are likely in the first reflection points. These two things are typical in a room and are both good places to start. Overall your room has a house curve to it. www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/96-house-curve-what-why-you-need-how-do.htmlDo you have any pictures or diagrams of your room? Do you have any flexibility in speaker placement? There are a few pictures of my room on the 1st post of this thread: emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/47906/figure-out-required-subwoofer-headroomAs you can see I do have some flexibility in placement. However, I can't spread my towers out much further than they are (there's about 9 feet between them, and I'm sitting about 7 ft from each tower, so it's already really wide!). I can't bring the towers much closer together either since I'm hoping to put dual subs between each tower and the entertainment center (roughly at 1/4 placement for each sub). I do have the ability to move them forwards and backwards a bit though, so I can play with that. |
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Post by jcisbig on Sept 20, 2016 22:51:29 GMT -5
Just as an EXPERIMENT, get some friends over. Bigger = Better, in this case. Take turns STANDING IN CORNERS as you evaluate bass. Work the corners which produce the best effect first. We did this at a buddies house who is TOTALLY high end. He has 20 series Magnepans, as well as 2 other sets of speakers which are panels. His biamp setup uses Emo monoblocs AND a Marchand crossover as well as other gear. I think he sold his Krell and some tube amps. By doing the corner thing, we determined where a couple corner traps would have the best / most effect. Without spending a dime. Interesting idea, I'll have to keep that in mind! |
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Post by jlafrenz on Sept 20, 2016 22:54:21 GMT -5
Your layout looks good. Small rooms are known for bass build up which your measurement file shows. Those corners are begging for some bass traps. I would hit some first reflection points as well. Treating the rear of the room with some thicker panels would be beneficial as well.
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Post by jcisbig on Sept 20, 2016 23:21:53 GMT -5
Your layout looks good. Small rooms are known for bass build up which your measurement file shows. Those corners are begging for some bass traps. I would hit some first reflection points as well. Treating the rear of the room with some thicker panels would be beneficial as well. This is exactly what GIK is recommending, so I think you're right on! I'm planning to do things in phases, and I think the first phase will be some soffit traps in the front corners for bass and a couple panels at my first reflection points. After that I'll tackle the back wall. |
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Post by creimes on Sept 21, 2016 9:31:58 GMT -5
Hey All, I'm planning to add acoustic treatments to my HT room soon and have been talking primarily with GIK. They are recommending the following: Four Soffit Traps to help control bass frequencies (and some mids) 242 Panels at my 1st reflection points on my sidewalls Three 6" Alpha traps on my back wall More 242 Panels on my front wall after those other things have been done Altogether, it will represent a little over $2k in treatments, which is a lot more than I was expecting! Needless to say, I wonder in the back of my head how much audible difference those things will make in my room. I've heard a lot of folks say that acoustic treatments make a HUGE difference, but there's always that little nagging doubt in my mind. Two questions: 1) Does anyone have experience with any of the treatments above? (or similar from another company) 2) Can anyone say a few things to help ease my mind about spending so much for room treatments? Have you thought about DIY panels ?? If you have a compound mitre saw and can cut 45 degree cuts and pre-drill some holes and then screw those pieces of wood together you could make your own panels for a lot lot less money than buying some. Things you will need 1x3 wood(nothing warped obviously) Roxul SafenSound insulation I used cheap bed sheets from Walmart Staples #8 2" screws and tools Mitre Saw Drill Square Tape Measure Pencil Stapler |
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Post by jcisbig on Sept 21, 2016 14:27:42 GMT -5
One of the biggest concerns I would have with building my own would be that I wouldn't be as sure of the performance of my panels compared to another company's panels. I might put all that time into building my own panels, but they may not work at certain frequencies, or they maybe less effective with other frequencies. With the professionally made panels I have confidence in knowing what they're capable of, backed up by 3rd party measurements.
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Post by pedrocols on Sept 21, 2016 15:19:25 GMT -5
One of the biggest concerns I would have with building my own would be that I wouldn't be as sure of the performance of my panels compared to another company's panels. I might put all that time into building my own panels, but they may not work at certain frequencies, or they maybe less effective with other frequencies. With the professionally made panels I have confidence in knowing what they're capable of, backed up by 3rd party measurements. Not true. I built my own panels using the same materials used by professional acoustics companies. Hence the results and measurements are going to potentially be identical. |
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Post by leonski on Sept 21, 2016 15:53:09 GMT -5
I figured that was probably the case. The computer I was using earlier didn't have REW on it. In looking at the file you have a lot of low end peaks that need to be tamed. This is going to require some thicker bass traps. As you move up the frequency range there are more sporadic peaks that are likely in the first reflection points. These two things are typical in a room and are both good places to start. Overall your room has a house curve to it. www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/96-house-curve-what-why-you-need-how-do.htmlDo you have any pictures or diagrams of your room? Do you have any flexibility in speaker placement? There are a few pictures of my room on the 1st post of this thread: emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/47906/figure-out-required-subwoofer-headroomAs you can see I do have some flexibility in placement. However, I can't spread my towers out much further than they are (there's about 9 feet between them, and I'm sitting about 7 ft from each tower, so it's already really wide!). I can't bring the towers much closer together either since I'm hoping to put dual subs between each tower and the entertainment center (roughly at 1/4 placement for each sub). I do have the ability to move them forwards and backwards a bit though, so I can play with that. I wouldn't 'plan' for the subs to go into a particular spot. They'll tell YOU where they want to go. As will the speakers. From Harman International, I'd START by asking you to read this. They take it a step by step so it is easy to understand in small bites. www.harman.com/sites/default/files/white-paper/12/11/2015%20-%2006%3A12/files/multsubs.pdf |
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Post by jcisbig on Sept 21, 2016 16:09:21 GMT -5
There are a few pictures of my room on the 1st post of this thread: emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/47906/figure-out-required-subwoofer-headroomAs you can see I do have some flexibility in placement. However, I can't spread my towers out much further than they are (there's about 9 feet between them, and I'm sitting about 7 ft from each tower, so it's already really wide!). I can't bring the towers much closer together either since I'm hoping to put dual subs between each tower and the entertainment center (roughly at 1/4 placement for each sub). I do have the ability to move them forwards and backwards a bit though, so I can play with that. I wouldn't 'plan' for the subs to go into a particular spot. They'll tell YOU where they want to go. As will the speakers. From Harman International, I'd START by asking you to read this. They take it a step by step so it is easy to understand in small bites. www.harman.com/sites/default/files/white-paper/12/11/2015%20-%2006%3A12/files/multsubs.pdfJust so you know, I did measure my room a few weeks back to determine the best locations for my subs. I placed my sub at my MLP on a pair of barstools to get it up at about head level and then used my UMIK-1 to measure all the possible spots in my room that I could place my subs (total of 7 distinct locations) and found that overall the front wall 1/4 placement measurements were pretty good. They definitely weren't perfect, but their imperfections didn't match up, which I'm hoping means that one sub will help make up for the deficiencies in the response of the other. |
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