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Post by teaman on Sept 27, 2016 22:41:55 GMT -5
I called about my ERC-3 and was told, essentially, that the noise is due to the fast spindle speed of the DVD drive used in this player (I've heard that before). The techie told me (perhaps truthfully to a degree) that the faster spindle speed allows for faster reading of the data from the disc so that multiple reads can be done quickly to avoid read errors. I've also read that this machine caches a ton of data before converting it, which suggests that perhaps it is more immune to read errors and jitter than slower CD drives. I, for one, can't say... After the call, I did some testing. In fact, the cheap DVD player I have for movies does, in fact, make as much noise as the Emo unit, possibly a little more. Trouble is, I paid less than $100 for it. I expect more from a nearly $500 unit. AND, the Sony CDP (s9000ES) is virtually silent (I'm not yet sure if I've EVER heard a noise with that player even with my ear up close). In short, I'm giving it another week or so before I decide. I haven't heard any of the really loud noises for a while now so maybe some of the noise was due to break-in issues. They DID give me an RMA so I can return it. More once I decide what to do. Does that mean the ERC-3 will play dvd's then? |
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cpsen
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by cpsen on Sept 28, 2016 21:32:10 GMT -5
I don't have any audio DVDs to try so can't answer that. Obviously it won't play video DVDs; it won't load them much less play them.
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 28, 2016 22:55:16 GMT -5
Mann....I don't know what to think about this except that I've read enough about noise complaints to steer clear of this unit.
Bill
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Post by routlaw on Sept 29, 2016 10:17:01 GMT -5
The ERC-3 does not play DVD-A or DVD-V either one, it only uses a dvd transport to play the cd disc as I understand it. FWIW my ERC-3 is relatively quiet. By that I mean one has to put their head and ear up close to the until to hear it spin. In any case what ever background noise is created by this unit is far less than other extraneous things elsewhere including TT noise and the pop, clicks and static that go along with playing vinyl. The audio performance is fabulous.
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 29, 2016 10:59:01 GMT -5
A top of the line, mainstream 3D blu ray player plays (including SACD, many models)virtually every kind of disc you can throw at it, with superb fidelity, especially when using it as a transport to a unit like the XMC1.
I have not had a dedicated CD player in my main system for years.......I mean WHY??
I would love to hear reasons from others here about the justification. I suspect I know what SOME of those reasons are, but I would like to hear it from others.
My logic has been that the blu ray player should have superior error correction theoretically over a regular CD transport.
Bill
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Post by routlaw on Sept 29, 2016 11:27:33 GMT -5
A top of the line, mainstream 3D blu ray player plays (including SACD, many models)virtually every kind of disc you can throw at it, with superb fidelity, especially when using it as a transport to a unit like the XMC1. I have not had a dedicated CD player in my main system for years.......I mean WHY?? I would love to hear reasons from others here about the justification. I suspect I know what SOME of those reasons are, but I would like to hear it from others. My logic has been that the blu ray player should have superior error correction theoretically over a regular CD transport. Bill I used to think the same, and like you have not had a dedicated CDP for many years but have owned in the past a number of Class A players including some higher end Wadia's and others. I don't understand your rationalization of why a blu ray player would have better error correction than a dedicated cdp however, for CD's. I have an Oppo 103 and simply put it does not even come close in performance to the ERC-3 whether you play disc directly from its analog outs or as a transport into the XMC-1, IMO. Others who have listened to the comparison in my room also agree. Taken another step I've compared a few SACD's, as well as high res downloads of known quality to the same redbook version on the ERC-3 and in most cases actually preferred the ERC-3's rendition or at worse the difference was so slight it didn't matter. Over the weekend I down sampled a highly regarded classical album (24/96khz download) to 16/44.1 KHZ, burned a standard disc of that then compared the performance to its high resolution counterpart from my computer based music server. At the time I actually preferred the cd version via the ERC-3. FWIW, all of this has surprised me and not what I would have expected, especially the situation regarding my Oppo 103 as a transport or even used as a stand alone cd player. |
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Post by novisnick on Sept 29, 2016 11:40:22 GMT -5
A top of the line, mainstream 3D blu ray player plays (including SACD, many models)virtually every kind of disc you can throw at it, with superb fidelity, especially when using it as a transport to a unit like the XMC1. I have not had a dedicated CD player in my main system for years.......I mean WHY?? I would love to hear reasons from others here about the justification. I suspect I know what SOME of those reasons are, but I would like to hear it from others. My logic has been that the blu ray player should have superior error correction theoretically over a regular CD transport. Bill I used to think the same, and like you have not had a dedicated CDP for many years but have owned in the past a number of Class A players including some higher end Wadia's and others. I don't understand your rationalization of why a blu ray player would have better error correction than a dedicated cdp however, for CD's. I have an Oppo 103 and simply put it does not even come close in performance to the ERC-3 whether you play disc directly from its analog outs or as a transport into the XMC-1, IMO. Others who have listened to the comparison in my room also agree. Taken another step I've compared a few SACD's, as well as high res downloads of known quality to the same redbook version on the ERC-3 and in most cases actually preferred the ERC-3's rendition or at worse the difference was so slight it didn't matter. Over the weekend I down sampled a highly regarded classical album (24/96khz download) to 16/44.1 KHZ, burned a standard disc of that then compared the performance to its high resolution counterpart from my computer based music server. At the time I actually preferred the cd version via the ERC-3. FWIW, all of this has surprised me and not what I would have expected, especially the situation regarding my Oppo 103 as a transport or even used as a stand alone cd player. As i read your post im curious as to which specific inputs your using when doing your comparisons. XMC-1 DAC VS Oppo -103 DAC, analog,,,,digital? |
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Post by routlaw on Sept 29, 2016 12:10:09 GMT -5
All of them, analog outs, HDMI and coax, well not all have not tried optical or AES/EBU. Of those 3 I slightly in most cases preferred the HDMI out… I think. With my mac mini server of the USB connection was used into the XMC-1. Its important to note I did not in any way expect to arrive or obtain the results I got and as previously stated was surprised by them all. I bought the ERC-3 while on sale almost as a curiosity figuring I would have not much to loose if it didn't measure up. Also this in no way means I am dissatisfied with the XMC-1, it still has its place in my system but for traditional cd playback I much prefer the ERC-3 rather than the other options. In fact I like this player so much it has me second guessing my analog rig something I never expected to say out loud.
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 29, 2016 13:04:08 GMT -5
"..... In fact I like this player so much it has me second guessing my analog rig something I never expected to say out loud." Not to change the subject, but I noticed in your gear you've got a cartridge from Soundsmith. That guy is not 15 minutes from my place in NY. paid him a visit in person a few years ago on a "fact finding mission" regarding service on amplifiers. Some pricey stuff under his roof😎 Bill |
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Post by routlaw on Sept 29, 2016 15:14:42 GMT -5
I can only imagine, and some of their cartridges are fairly pricey as well. Most of them too rich for my blood these days.
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cpsen
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 8
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Post by cpsen on Oct 4, 2016 20:03:34 GMT -5
I have not had a dedicated CD player in my main system for years.......I mean WHY?? I would love to hear reasons from others here about the justification. I suspect I know what SOME of those reasons are, but I would like to hear it from others. Bill I have had a lot of cd players and in almost all cases I can't hear a difference among them. Back in the late 90s I bought a Rotel RCC955 (a carousel player with HDCD ability) and immediately heard a difference from all the others. And that was with standard redbook CDs (not HDCD). My system is now much more resolving and differences are easier to hear. The Rotel started having problems reading discs and basic efforts failed to revive it. I set up a Mac Mini as a music server using a 384K/32bit asynchronous USB dac (XMOS chip) and it is sonically nice. But when I got the Emotiva, I was surprised to find I prefer its sound to the Mini setup. The ERC-3 has a few specific areas it beats the Mini Server (and anything else I've had except maybe the Sony I mentioned earlier). 1. It has more on the low end. Not sure what exactly it is, but I hear more weight in the bass region and hear some bass notes/frequencies that I don't notice in other sources. It's not overwhelming, but in focused listening, it's quite nice. It seems like it has a flatter response curve that reaches lower into the bass regions. It is also quite tight, and with my particular DIY speakers that use 8" full range drivers, that extra low end is good. 2. It has better resolution on the treble end. I hear things I don't hear in other digital sources. 3. It has a fast and authoritative way of throwing music into the room, but it does it pretty effortlessly. It's not "in your face" in my system though I imagine it could be in some. I suspect it's what others call "punch." 4. Finally, it does all this in most cases without being dry and analytical (though sometimes I DO notice this), and so far I haven't noticed any fatigue in long listening sessions. That's not to say there aren't better players out there... Also, I find it awkward to find and play music on the Mini/Server (it has no screen and I control it remotely via mobile device or another computer). The main reason is that I don't always know what I want to hear before browsing. I know my CD collection and it's organization and I can go to it, scan, and quickly find something I want to listen to. The Mini is just harder to browse, despite the ability to organize the music in many different ways. Now, I'm an old coot (55) and I'm sure others find it easier. It's just me. But that's part of the appeal to me. This is why I'm having such difficulty deciding whether or not to keep it. Today I noticed another disc that was quite noisy in the transport, making me nervous. But the second time around it wasn't so noisy. Now what could that be? Edit: Oh, and I've tried a number of different music servers, from iTunes to VLC and Songbird (older version, not available any more?). From what I can tell I like JRiver but it hasn't been available on Mac (I see it may be now though, but I suspect my 2007 Mini can't run the required OS). |
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cpsen
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 8
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Post by cpsen on Oct 21, 2016 6:46:51 GMT -5
Just to follow up, I ended up keeping the ERC3. The noise level has seemingly reduced in that I'm not hearing the unusually loud discs any more. I don't understand how that could be, but now when replaying the disc in the video, it is much quieter. Maybe one or two playings files down the disc thickness slightly so there's no noise (  ), or maybe something in the drive unit had to break in before it could run smoothly. The deck is still noisier than I would like (I assume it's the high speed of the dvd drive unit) but from a few feet away I either can't hear it at all or have to listen really carefully to hear it. And as I've said already, the quality of the music reproduction is stellar. I sure hope they fix the noise problem in the next versions. And hope that I don't experience a resurgence of the noise (as I've read in a few cases with the ERC3). Cheers, all! |
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Post by starchoice on Oct 31, 2016 14:00:27 GMT -5
Well, this seems problematic. Was looking to get one of these units. Being in Canada, returning a unit is not the easiest, notwithstanding that there is a Canadian dealer. Hmm, faster spindle? If these units are manufactured to specifications, it would seem that they should all make noise or none of them. I'm surprised that the company has not addressed the issue. Perhaps it's cheaper to address problems on an individual basis but if the issue is considered "normal", who wants a unit making noise when you are supposed to be listening to music? Some make noise while others don't do it? I'm thinking that this is a quality control issue. Given that the units are manufactured offshore, I'm wondering if someone in the chain is sacrificing quality control? These units should now really be tested before leaving the facility. Given that Emotiva is essentially direct to consumer, it shouldn't be an issue to test these units before sending them out, in fact, it should be mandatory at this stage of the game.
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Post by Loop 7 on Nov 2, 2016 6:17:37 GMT -5
I remember hearing disc spin noise from my first Denon CD player in the mid 1990's but it didn't bother me in any way. However, it would now drive me up a wall which says something about how high strung I may have become. Parasound had a CD player (Halo CD 1) which claimed "ROM drive spins four times faster than any CD drive" but it was dead silent from my short exposure. To be fair, the CD 1 retailed for an irrational $4,500. Looking at the brochure, Parasound engineers allocated some of that high price to deal with the noise: "Proprietary software enables the CD 1 to run silently during the entire time a CD is playing." |
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Post by starchoice on Dec 1, 2016 18:40:30 GMT -5
I'm surprised about how complacent people are with this issue. I think that there should be a recall. The company seems silent on the problem, not unlike some issues with car manufacturers but since nobody can possibly die from this, I guess it's cheaper for them to deal with any problems on a case by case basis, notwithstanding the fact that it must cut into sales and creates needless expense for the user in having to ship back. Now, on top of the noise issue, I'm reading about some also having sound drop-outs.
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), or maybe something in the drive unit had to break in before it could run smoothly. The deck is still noisier than I would like (I assume it's the high speed of the dvd drive unit) but from a few feet away I either can't hear it at all or have to listen really carefully to hear it.
