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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 20, 2016 20:37:35 GMT -5
I've heard it argued that Emotiva's move to spending their engineering budget developing entry level products for the masses is indicative of their desire to become a volume manufacturer rather than a high-end one.
The failure to replace the XPA-1, Gen. 2 with an equivalent Gen. 3 mono block is one example.
Their introduction of the BASX line is another.
Their failure to offer fully differential balanced circuitry on the XPA Gen. 3 series is another.
Their failure to update the XSP-1, Gen. 2 is another.
Their failure to update the Stealth DC-1 is another (although Lonnie says that they ARE working on a replacement here).
Their failure to offer a "Reference" surround sound processor is another.
Their discontinuation of the XPR amplifier line is another.
There are more examples, but you get the idea. It seems that maybe Emotiva wants to be the American Yamaha/Sony/Denon, and move away from the type of products that established the company to start with - True audiophile products at a more reasonable price.
This is purely speculation, but I'd be interested in hearing Big Dan elaborate what the goals are and where the company wants to be in five or 10 more years... Now for business purposes, he may be unable / unwilling to do this - It's never a great idea to tip off the competition as to what parts of their market you want to steal from them, but it might be fun for US Loungers to speculate about it.
So my question to you, fellow Loungers, is:
Is Emotiva changing their direction away from high end audio? Yes or no, but justify your answers.
Boomzilla
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Post by adaboy on Sept 20, 2016 20:57:05 GMT -5
Well Boomzilla, Emotiva's slogan is "rethink high -end" so maybe their new vision is a product of the younger generation thinking ipod buds sound great or good enough. Also Speaking with some of my buddies that refuse to become Emo product owners solely because Stereophile doesn't endorse them etc. I think that now having dealer support customers will be able to hear Emo gear head to head with other products and may force more super reviewers to take the company serious. my 2 cents. |
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Post by brutiarti on Sept 20, 2016 21:05:36 GMT -5
I think they are, at least for now. All the brands that you mentioned have reference lines too so they can be in between mass production and high end market. They might create a reference line later on but not like before (quality yes, price NO).
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Post by Axis on Sept 20, 2016 21:07:07 GMT -5
Boom I don't think there going toward the masses enough.
They are working hard to develop there products and improve there products.
Where they go is going to be there decisions.
I hope they make the right ones.
They are not failing Boom.
They are growing.
We think of them as family.
We worry.
That's life.
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Post by vneal on Sept 20, 2016 21:10:00 GMT -5
I hope they are introducing their mid end products hopefully following those with their SOTA products like Mono reference amps
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Post by novisnick on Sept 20, 2016 21:17:50 GMT -5
Boomzilla I believe you've already read my post on this topic. 
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Post by lehighvalleyjeff on Sept 20, 2016 21:30:58 GMT -5
Well I think while we all love the expensive high end gear, the realities remain that a company's primary objective is to make a profit. Unfortunately the younger generations are not buying audio gear the way I was in my 20s during the 1990s. Consumer buying habits have changed and evolved (perhaps not for the better).
In the early 1990s I was selling mid fi gear and was speaking to the rep from one of the various lines that we carried. I remember asking him why the new McIntosh integrated didn't have whatever new bell or whistle that others were introducing. His response was profound. He said in home audio you can be on the cutting edge or the bleeding edge of technology. He further explained that McIntosh was in no rush to jump on the latest and greatest trend of the month, but rather preferred to stick with time tested essential features and focus on sound quality.
Now I watched Emotiva evolve a bit from the limited higher end market (XPR Line) to lower price point value products through brick and mortar dealers and big box stores. My assumption is that they are targeting that sector of the marketplace because it is more profitable, helps grow brand recognition and ultimately gets them closer to their corporate goals whatever they might be.
Rethink High End is their slogan and I think that they might be trying to attract consumers who normally would never find Emotiva on a high end forum or in Stereophile.
I do hope (for my own selfish reasons) that they eventually go back to the Reference Line and make a killer pass through balanced only preamp and hopefully someday an amazing tube line. Until then, I am happy I got the gear that I did when it was available. I just saw a pair of XPR-1s selling in Canada for $4,000 and I think it sold.
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Post by ribbonking on Sept 20, 2016 21:39:55 GMT -5
I am hard pressed to understand why one would set up dealers (a bunch of small time dealers as by definition virtually all local audio dealers are), spend the time and money to support them, take the credit risk in a business where more dealers are disappearing that are being created - at least from my perspective, its a difficult decision to understand.
Maybe if they were setting up some dealers with some heft like Crutchfield, Audio Adviser and Music Direct - that might make more sense to me.
If they wanted to mass market like a Denon, Marantz, Yamaha or Onkyo - my bet is those companies do more through Amazon and Best Buy than they do with local dealers and the dealers I hate the most - custom installers, Heck, I have more audio gear in my house than most custom installers have on hand. Try calling one to get an audition.
Why give up half your margin to a dealer?
Why extend credit to a dealer when an end user pays you before you ship the product? Waiting 60 or 90 days for your money? That will multiply your capital requirements.
If Emotiva continues to sell direct on the internet as well as through dealers, there will always be friction with their dealers. That's a given.
Maybe I am missing something - and for sure Emotiva's decisions are none of my business - but doesn't sound like a good move to me.
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Post by mgbpuff on Sept 20, 2016 22:05:54 GMT -5
Well Emo has totally revamped their lines with the priority on value. The reference line is next and I think that with a little patience and a little prodding so they don't think we are all satisfied, they will give us the affordable SOTA new Reference line products that we old Emo fans are waiting on.
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Post by dcg44s on Sept 20, 2016 22:24:45 GMT -5
Interesting question.I'm not qualified to answer it because I don't have sufficient information.I'll give you my gut feeling though.The answer is no,but they are temporarily distracted from it.I think there are two issues at play in this,financial interests and resources.The first law of business is to survive because if you can't do that the rest won't matter.Emotiva is concentrating on more affordable products at the moment because that is what is going to sell in greater numbers.
I think that with limited resources it is very difficult if not impossible to do everything at once.Imagine trying to design,build,etc. all of the different products,updates,etc. all at once.Simply too much.So they are doing the more affordable stuff first to keep the company solid and the high end wil come along when it can.Somehow I just can't imagine Big Dan being happy with totally abandoning the higher end and being satisfied with being known as just a mid level product company.I say mid level because nothing they make is weak enough to be called low end.
I think Big Dan,Lonnie and the rest of the crew will bring us more high end gear down the line somewhere,they just have obligations to the business to consider and decided to prioritise the market segment that brings in the majority of the sales.Once that is set and running smoothly they can focus on the higher end stuff.Which by the way,I suspect is more enjoyable for them personally.
Just my uninformed 2 cents worth of gut feeling.
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Post by jlafrenz on Sept 20, 2016 22:32:08 GMT -5
I agree with DCG. It seems as though the market is dictating the product lines. We certainly don't know this for sure as we here on the Lounge are only a small percentage and none of us are in Emotiva's shoes.
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 20, 2016 22:34:36 GMT -5
A very interesting topic, looking at it from a distance (and considering a not insubstantial change in local pricing) I don't think that they have much choice but to move technically (sonically) down market initially. The retail selling model, by its very nature, has to include reasonable margins for Distributors and Retailers. Plus it has to allow for volume sales, selling a very small number of sonically high end Emotiva products per months is not as attractive as selling multiple lesser endowed products. Personally, I'm almost in the market for a replacement for the UMC-200 and I just don't see me paying $A4,000 for an XMC-1 (that's what they cost here), processors just don't last that long, technically.
If I look at what is currently "new" product (available right now or soon to be available) there's a common theme, they are fundamentally volume products. Spec'd and priced to appeal to a larger audience than the average Emotiva product of recent history. Personally, for the first time in 7 years, there's not a single Emotiva product that I am seriously considering buying. Perhaps even worse, there's not one that I'm lusting after, but hopefully that's only a short term situation and Emotiva will return to more normal programming shortly.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by dcg44s on Sept 20, 2016 22:37:32 GMT -5
I agree with DCG. It seems as though the market is dictating the product lines. We certainly don't know this for sure as we here on the Lounge are only a small percentage and none of us are in Emotiva's shoes. Good to see you post,haven't seen you posting as much as years past. |
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Post by Axis on Sept 20, 2016 22:40:56 GMT -5
You guys got to be frigin kidding me ! All that happens here is how many and how soon. You guys live in a science fiction future world of audio and video gear. Emotiva has been going forward since they started. This is nonsense to think Emotiva is abandoning high end.
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Post by jlafrenz on Sept 20, 2016 22:43:27 GMT -5
I agree with DCG. It seems as though the market is dictating the product lines. We certainly don't know this for sure as we here on the Lounge are only a small percentage and none of us are in Emotiva's shoes. Good to see you post,haven't seen you posting as much as years past. Lots more going on these days than I did in the past with family and work. I still read quite a bit, but don't chime in as much as I used to. |
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Post by MusicHead on Sept 20, 2016 22:45:26 GMT -5
Unless you want to remain small and in a niche, you need "cash cows" products to pay the bills and finance the development of lower volume, higher performance products.
There you have it, my speculation! :-)
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Post by pedrocols on Sept 20, 2016 22:45:34 GMT -5
It is a jungle out there...
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Post by TempTag on Sept 20, 2016 22:49:09 GMT -5
The BasX looks like a reboot of the UMC line so not really new is it? I assume Emotiva are focusing on replacing their most profitable products first so not surprising to see some of the new announcements. I have to admit to being a little confused about the lag between product lines (UMC gone long before BasX is ready as an example) as the company seemed to have a really limited selection for awhile.
I was also surprised to see products like the XPA-1L not replaced as it seemed to fit a modern niche - compact form factor but providing some traditional step-up class A capability and at a reasonable price - I can only assume it did not sell. Maybe not selling well is what is hindering the next generation of XPR and other higher spec products as well.
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 20, 2016 22:49:12 GMT -5
You guys got to be frigin kidding me ! All that happens here is how many and how soon. You guys live in a science fiction future world of audio and video gear. Emotiva has been going forward since they started. This is nonsense to think Emotiva is abandoning high end. A couple of simple questions, what's the most recent "high end" product Emotiva has released? How many "not so high end" products has Emotiva released since they released a "high end" product? IMHO "abandoning" is a bit strong, perhaps it's more like "temporarily leaving", the question is how temporary? Cheers Gary |
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Post by Axis on Sept 20, 2016 22:51:11 GMT -5
You guys got to be frigin kidding me ! All that happens here is how many and how soon. You guys live in a science fiction future world of audio and video gear. Emotiva has been going forward since they started. This is nonsense to think Emotiva is abandoning high end. A couple of simple questions, what's the most recent "high end" product Emotiva has released? How many "not so high end" products has Emotiva released since they released a "high end" product? IMHO "abandoning" is a bit strong, perhaps it's more like "temporarily leaving", the question is how temporary? Cheers Gary The XMC-1. It put everyone else to shame. Where have you guys been ? |
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