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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 22, 2016 18:53:09 GMT -5
A grab bag of thoughts; Thanks for the mock up Hair Nick looks very cool, like a UMC-200 but with rock. On the question of knobs versus buttons, I have volume buttons on the UMC-200 and a volume knob on the XSP-1 and I seriously can not remember the last time I used either of them. The remotes are my volume control and they have buttons. Personal preference of course. All of my Emotiva gear is daisy chained, so one trigger in and one trigger out works OK for me. It was one of the things I liked for HT Bypass when moving from the USP-1 (no trigger in) to the XSP-1 (has a trigger in). Power up the UMC-200 and it triggers the XSP-1 and all the power amps. Power up the XSP-1 and it only triggers the 2 x XPA-1L's and the 1 x XPA-100. On the balanced connectors question I've not seen Emotiva sell gear with balanced outputs that aren't in fact balanced. They have 2 outputs out of phase with each other which then is processed by the receiving gear and any noise added is eliminated. How deep the discrete circuitry is within the pre amp sections of XMC-1L is another question. But I can't believe that the output is in doubt. In regards to the DIRAC microphone connection on the front, I really only run room correction very rarely, so having it on the back is not a big issue. But the USB connection I think probably should be on the front, that would get used often enough to justify it. I like the XMC-1L plus XPA-1L thinking novisnick, it just might starve off the Monoblock Society leadership spill rumours Cheers Gary
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 22, 2016 19:01:56 GMT -5
BTW I don't believe it is appropriate for existing XMC-1 owners to vote "no interest", obviously they wouldn't be interested in a scaled down XMC-1L, unless it was for a another system of course.
Maybe think about changing your vote or abstaining.
Cheers Gary
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Post by Axis on Sept 22, 2016 19:03:30 GMT -5
BTW I don't believe it is appropriate for existing XMC-1 owners to vote "no interest", obviously they wouldn't be interested in a scaled down XMC-1L, unless it was for a another system of course. Maybe think about changing your vote or abstaining. Cheers Gary I agree. What would be cool is if visitors could vote. This crowd is old news.
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,213
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Post by novisnick on Sept 22, 2016 19:11:44 GMT -5
A grab bag of thoughts; Thanks for the mock up Hair Nick looks very cool, like a UMC-200 but with rock. On the question of knobs versus buttons, I have volume buttons on the UMC-200 and a volume knob on the XSP-1 and I seriously can not remember the last time I used either of them. The remotes are my volume control and they have buttons. Personal preference of course. All of my Emotiva gear is daisy chained, so one trigger in and one trigger out works OK for me. It was one of the things I liked for HT Bypass when moving from the USP-1 (no trigger in) to the XSP-1 (has a trigger in). Power up the UMC-200 and it triggers the XSP-1 and all the power amps. Power up the XSP-1 and it only triggers the 2 x XPA-1L's and the 1 x XPA-100. On the balanced connectors question I've not seen Emotiva sell gear with balanced outputs that aren't in fact balanced. They have 2 outputs out of phase with each other which then is processed by the receiving gear and any noise added is eliminated. How deep the discrete circuitry is within the pre amp sections of XMC-1L is another question. But I can't believe that the output is in doubt. In regards to the DIRAC microphone connection on the front, I really only run room correction very rarely, so having it on the back is not a big issue. But the USB connection I think probably should be on the front, that would get used often enough to justify it. I like the XMC-1L plus XPA-1L thinking novisnick , it just might starve off the Monoblock Society leadership spill rumours Cheers Gary I agree with most of what you say Gary but would like to see two triggers, One to daisy chain MONOBLOCKS for two channel listening and the other for HT amp(s).
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 22, 2016 19:19:40 GMT -5
I agree with most of what you say Gary but would like to see two triggers, One to daisy chain MONOBLOCKS for two channel listening and the other for HT amp(s). Get with the program Nick, you should have an XSP-1 for triggering the monoblocks for stereo music. Cheers Gary
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,213
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Post by novisnick on Sept 22, 2016 19:26:12 GMT -5
I agree with most of what you say Gary but would like to see two triggers, One to daisy chain MONOBLOCKS for two channel listening and the other for HT amp(s). Get with the program Nick, you should have an XSP-1 for triggering the monoblocks for stereo music. Cheers Gary Sorry Gary, I have a manual switch for both sets of MONOBLOCKs , as I'm using a single set of speakers. XMC-1 for the XPR-1s and C220 for the BL ST-120/XPA-1Ls.
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Post by petew on Sept 22, 2016 19:45:29 GMT -5
I don't see the market for the XMC-1L. That's already covered by the BaseX and Emersa preamps.
I'd rather see an XMC-1 generation III L. It would be a 7.2.4 Atmos/DTSx machine with a couple of analog stereo inputs, two COAX and two TOSLINK digital inputs, USB input, Tuner. I'd lose the balanced connections except for the subs. Also delete the balanced stereo input. And no 7.1 analog inputs either. Four or five HDMI inputs on a separate, upgradable board should suffice.
It should sell for $1,299 with the Dirac upgrade priced at $199.
I agree with others that the volume control should be a knob. Some have asked for the mic connector on the front panel, but remember that Dirac connects the mic directly to your laptop via USB. The filters are calculated there then pushed over the network to the prepro after they get crunched by Dirac's servers.
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Post by wrinklemash on Sept 22, 2016 20:02:32 GMT -5
A grab bag of thoughts; On the balanced connectors question I've not seen Emotiva sell gear with balanced outputs that aren't in fact balanced. They have 2 outputs out of phase with each other which then is processed by the receiving gear and any noise added is eliminated. How deep the discrete circuitry is within the pre amp sections of XMC-1L is another question. But I can't believe that the output is in doubt. In regards to the DIRAC microphone connection on the front, I really only run room correction very rarely, so having it on the back is not a big issue. But the USB connection I think probably should be on the front, that would get used often enough to justify it. Cheers Gary Admittedly, the volume knob is a personal preference - I still HATE volume buttons on the piece, they belong on the remote. I don't see the mic input at all on the concept drawings, and I don't think the mic input is as much of a preference though. It is much, much more convenient on the front and pieces of this quality and price should consider the user experience more carefully. Ideally, room calibration should be done with everything in place. With it on the back, you often have to pull out or rotate the piece in the cainet/rack to access it. When this happens other things become disconnected. What should be a 30 minute process becomes a couple of hours. If you cannot rotate or pull the piece from the cabinet because the space in the rack/cabinet is tight, you sometimes you have to rotate the entire cabinet. In doing so you may actually the risk the cabinet itself, all those heavy Emotiva Gen1 and Gen2 amps, and your back. It's a pain the rear to have it on the back.
Then there is the calibration process itself. My experience has been to plug in the mic, do the room correction, unplug the mic (prematurely), fiddle with the settings and then decide you screwed it up. Then plug the mic back in again, do correction again, fiddle, etc... If this piece has Full Dirac as an option, you have to use a laptop too, presumably through a USB port. If both are on the back, its just more of pain. Put them up front. Edit: Never mind - I did not know how Dirac was actually used....I assumed it was like other room correction systems....grrr...The USB port up front would also allow more use of the nice DAC, which was one of the driving argument for this piece. I don't fully understand the balanced thing in pre-amps and processors, I do understand its benefit in amps though. To me, and relative to Emotiva, it is an extension of the quality and thoughtful design Emotiva puts into their products. In fact, I believe they trademarked some of the wording too - "fully differential design" perhaps. So, if the balanced design is carried deep into the unit, it conveys some exclusivity. IMO they should exploit it as much as possible whenever they can. Lastly, and this may be another dumb question, if the unit is Wifi and Bluetooth compatible, doesn't it need wifi and/or blue tooth antennas? Have they been embedded in the chassis or do they need to be attached to the rear? I don't know how Emotiva has implemented these before, so I am asking. Do they use one of the USB's for the antenna? If so, to me, its just one more reason to have one USB on the front.
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Post by wrinklemash on Sept 22, 2016 20:06:37 GMT -5
I don't see the market for the XMC-1L. That's already covered by the BaseX and Emersa preamps. I'd rather see an XMC-1 generation III L. It would be a 7.2.4 Atmos/DTSx machine with a couple of analog stereo inputs, two COAX and two TOSLINK digital inputs, USB input, Tuner. I'd lose the balanced connections except for the subs. Also delete the balanced stereo input. And no 7.1 analog inputs either. Four or five HDMI inputs on a separate, upgradable board should suffice. It should sell for $1,299 with the Dirac upgrade priced at $199. I agree with others that the volume control should be a knob. Some have asked for the mic connector on the front panel, but remember that Dirac connects the mic directly to your laptop via USB. The filters are calculated there then pushed over the network to the prepro after they get crunched by Dirac's servers. I agree with the Atmos/Dts:X arguement. for people new to Emotiva, the lack of those two will be a non-starter for them. I did not know how the Dirac and Microphone was implemented, so to this I say a USB needs to be on the front of the unit.
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Post by garbulky on Sept 22, 2016 20:08:13 GMT -5
I'd lose the balanced connections except for the subs.
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Post by petew on Sept 22, 2016 20:13:28 GMT -5
I don't see the market for the XMC-1L. That's already covered by the BaseX and Emersa preamps. I'd rather see an XMC-1 generation III L. It would be a 7.2.4 Atmos/DTSx machine with a couple of analog stereo inputs, two COAX and two TOSLINK digital inputs, USB input, Tuner. I'd lose the balanced connections except for the subs. Also delete the balanced stereo input. And no 7.1 analog inputs either. Four or five HDMI inputs on a separate, upgradable board should suffice. It should sell for $1,299 with the Dirac upgrade priced at $199. I agree with others that the volume control should be a knob. Some have asked for the mic connector on the front panel, but remember that Dirac connects the mic directly to your laptop via USB. The filters are calculated there then pushed over the network to the prepro after they get crunched by Dirac's servers. I agree with the Atmos/Dts:X arguement. for people new to Emotiva, the lack of those two will be a non-starter for them. I did not know how the Dirac and Microphone was implemented, so to this I say a USB needs to be on the front of the unit. The Dirac mic connects to the laptop by USB. No connection to the preamp by the mic or laptop except over the network cable that should always be connected.
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Post by 2muchht on Sept 22, 2016 22:46:22 GMT -5
HDMI specifics would make this a go or no-go.
* Will the single HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 input be 300 MHz/9 Gbps or 600 MHz/18 Gbps? The latter is, or will soon be important for 12-bit signals as we'll find for Dolby Vision and more. * On the other side, to accommodate HDR-10 you must have HDMI 2.0a so that the single stream data can pass. Will it have the "2.0a" version? * Lastly, any chance that it will be future upgradeable to the same "all HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2" board planed for the original XMC-1? That wouldn't have made a difference 18 months ago, but with XBox One S or PS4 Pro, 4K DirecTV or Dish and Roku 4, only one HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 just isn't enough anymore. Particularly with the Oppo UltraHD Blu Ray at what they said from CEDIA reports will be $499 I bet that will be on MANY holiday shopping lists!
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 22, 2016 22:50:29 GMT -5
I don't fully understand the balanced thing in pre-amps and processors, I do understand its benefit in amps though. In my simplistic understanding the application is much the same in that it occurs in the analogue pre amp circuitry, not in the DAC. At some point, utilising differential circuitry, the analogue audio signal is split into 2 signals, being out of phase with each other. That split is maintained throughout the remainder of pre amp circuitry and passed to the balanced out connections (XLR) as two out of phase signals which then travel to the power amplifier. If the non balanced out (RCA) connections are used, there is circuitry to flip the phasing, then compare and eliminate any noise and then pass a single phase signal to the power amplifier. That eliminates any noise in the pre amp, but exposes the cables to the introduction of external noise. If we connect a differential pre amp to a differential power amp then any noise generated in the pre amp circuitry (post the signal splitting), any noise that sneaks into the XLR cables and any noise generated in the power amplifier are all eliminated prior to the output being passed to the speaker wiring. In my case I have a differential CD player (ERC-3), a differential pre amp (XSP-1) and a pair of differential power amps (XPA-1L's). I have used long interconnects (XLR) between the pre amp and the power amps which are located close by the speakers, hence very short speaker cables. As a result there is no noise introduced all the way from post the DAC in the CD player to the speakers, it's as close to dead silent as I can get it. Cheers Gary
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Post by vcautokid on Sept 22, 2016 22:56:23 GMT -5
I think it is a good Idea. $999.00 price range is rather empty territory these days of anything. Pre Pros are so much more expensive, and I think an XMC-1L might be the product to wake people up too a possible Amplifier Processor vs. Receiver solution in a big way. You know, the XPA Gen 3 and the XMC-1L combo.
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Post by redcoat23 on Sept 23, 2016 1:31:25 GMT -5
Love the idea. I have a main theater setup where Atmos will live and that will get the latest and greatest, but my lounge is 5.2 and won't ever have atmos, so this would be perfect for there. Yes please
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Post by cwt on Sept 23, 2016 2:13:51 GMT -5
I voted no as Ime more interested in the xmc1/rmc1 object audio solutions . I too see many similarities with the emp1 but this ; "However, the HDMI subsystem is modular and will evolve along side the XMC-1 and other AVP solutions we are designing." has me wondering if the emp1 is indeed modular [ its footprint is considerably smaller] or its hdmi 2.0[a?] is permanent . Could easily have missed something but everything cant be modular ..? HDMI is crucial these days with HDR and DV. If so with the dirac option I see it as a good proposition for those with smaller rooms ; the xlrs are nice too
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Timster
Sensei
Posting from Scarsdale, Vic, Australia
Posts: 140
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Post by Timster on Sept 23, 2016 6:12:52 GMT -5
I am still kicking myself that I missed the boat on the original XMC-1 release and to take advantage of 40% card and a favourable exchange rate to AU. Now the rate is down significantly and I have to buy from a dealer in AU, and even with the card it's considerably more than I want to spend.
However, I would buy this. Due to the above cost of the XMC-1 in AU was looking to the EMP-1 to upgrade my UMC-1. This however matches existing aesthetics and gets me all I need and a bit more, with seemingly the sound quality of the XMC-1.
No interest for me in atmos etc, nor 4K. Maybe many years hence, but not now as would require a lot of additional expenditure (speakers, amps, new PJ for 4k etc) that frankly I can't justify.
Hope I don't have to wait too long.
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Post by vinylfreak on Sept 23, 2016 6:40:26 GMT -5
Sign me up!!
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geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,161
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Post by geebo on Sept 23, 2016 7:03:53 GMT -5
Hi everyone, Big Dan asked me to post this concept before I left tonight. Personally I think it looks pretty badass and hope you do too. Overall, I like it. F ive criticisms regarding the layout. #1 Volume Knob. If the BasX MC-700 has a knob, the XMC-1L MUST have a knob too. I HATE volume buttons. A lot of other people do too - it is just cheap feeling not to have one. (not a killer, but I HATE volume buttons) #2 The room correction microphone connection needs to be in the front of the unit, always.....Never, ever put a mic jack for room correction on the back panel. That said, I do not see one at all. If not connecting via USB, the unit needs to have one. #3 Please put a USB in the front too. Make it easy for us. #4 Really, what would it hurt to do a second 12v trigger out? C'mon guys! #5 The UMC-200 had RCA zone outputs. Can the XMC-1L at least have one zone output too??? Can't even remember the last time I touched the volume knob. I could easily live without it. Mic jack and USB port on the front would be nice. (Dirac capable. No mic jack required) A second trigger would come in handy. And it looks very nice, too!
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Post by maseline98 on Sept 23, 2016 8:10:51 GMT -5
I made some design changes...lol
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