|
Post by boomzilla on Dec 8, 2016 7:13:03 GMT -5
Hi ChadwickW - Bad news, amigo - Your Martin Logans, although rated at a "nominal" 4-ohms, are electrostatic speakers. The impedance in the treble drops significantly below 4 ohms. See that optimistic "2 ohms at 20 KHz" spec?. It's actually closer to one ohm. The TA-100 (despite being a sturdy 4-ohm amplifier) is NOT rated for impedances below that. If the speakers had a narrow impedance dip, the TA-100 would probably handle it fine, but for a broad and VERY low high-frequency impedance, I'd not recommend that amp for those speakers. Now if you NEVER go to high volumes, you might get away with it, but for movie watching, sometimes volumes tend to go higher... I'd DEFINITELY steer clear of AVRs as well. Their amps aren't as robust as the amp of the TA-100. And I'll also be honest - ML's "Compatible with 4, 6, or 8 ohm-rated amplifiers" spec is WILDLY optimistic. The speakers are compatible with SOME of those amps, but by no means all. SO what DO you need? You aren't going to like my recommendation... I think you need one of three things here: 1. An amplifier with output transformers (such as a tube amplifier or a McIntosh solid state amp). In such amps, the transformer impedance isolates the amplifier from the speakers. 2. A really (REALLY) robust power amplifier that is rated for low impedances (think Krell, or something like that) or 3. A different pair of speakers. So would the TA-100 drive the speakers at all? Maybe. BUT several bad things are also possible: The amplifier may run significantly hotter than it should because of the low impedance it's trying to drive. The amplifier's service life may be significantly reduced for the same reason. Any instability in the amplifier will be exacerbated by the low impedance load. Distortion may be SIGNIFICANTLY higher due to the low impedance. If amplifier damage does occur due to the low impedance, it may not be covered under warranty because you'll be operating the amp far out of its design limits. These bad things are not unique to the TA-100. In fact, the TA-100 is probably more robust than other amplifiers at its price. But the bottom line is that the ML speakers and the TA-100 are an inherently bad match. Don't shoot the messenger here - but I've given you my honest opinion. OTOH, the Emotiva folks may chime in here and say it's actually OK. If so, then trust their advice over mine. Boomzilla PS: There IS an alternative that would drive your speakers and at a reasonable price. It may not have the sound quality of the Emotiva products, but it will be a happier (and safer) match. So what's that option? It'd be a "pro" power amplifier. Those amps are designed to tolerate low-impedance abuse without damage. The Crown XLS series is a popular and inexpensive choice. The XLS Crown amps also have a feature that may serve you well in the future - they have a frequency-selectable high-pass filter. That means that if you ever want to add a subwoofer, you can cut off the low frequencies from your main speakers & let the sub handle the bass. You also get LOTS of power from the Crowns for the dollars spent. Happy shopping!
|
|
|
Post by chadwickW on Dec 11, 2016 12:16:43 GMT -5
Hey boom!
I appreciate your well thought response! I wish I had the cash flow for some McIntosh equipment but unfortunately that's not in my budget. These speakers were run off an old crown 300a for many years. This was my dad's setup. I've inherited the MLs since he got some newer NHT's and adcom gear. So that crown dc300a is still available. I can also get my hands on an adcom gfx 545 or 555 for decently cheap. It seems older amps are what I'll need to drive these. Now the hard part if finding some preamp with digital inputs. I don't want to hijack this thread and go off topic. I really do appreciate your time and thoughts!
Have a great weekend!
Chadwick
|
|
|
Post by boomzilla on Dec 11, 2016 14:51:01 GMT -5
Hi again @chadwickw -
The DC-300a, the Adcom 545 / 555 are all OK, but consider a Crown XLS-1500 (About $200 used). I've used one with a pair of ML Impression ESL-11A speakers. Not too shabby... Again - not Emotiva quality, but not Emotiva price either...
For a combination preamp / DAC, I'd recommend any of the following:
Emotiva BASX PT-100 - $299 (currently on sale for less) - Hits WAY beyond it's price... Emotiva Stealth DC-1 - $499 (currently on sale for less) Grace M920 - About $2K Mytek Brooklyn - About $2K Benchmark DAC-1 HDR - used @ about $700
|
|
|
Post by chadwickW on Dec 11, 2016 16:02:50 GMT -5
I never really considered rack mount. I like the slim profile. I see the xls 1502 for 360 on amazon and found a xls 1000 for 150 locally used. I do really like the emotiva PT-100. Has pretty much everything I need and more.
Would I see or notice much difference from getting the xls 1000, or 1502 compared to the emotiva a-300? since the xls 1502 and a-300 are the same price new. (No used stuff besides the xls 1000 in my area)
So 1503 - pt-100 for 600
Xls 1000 - pt-100 for 400
A-300 - pt100 for 600
|
|
|
Post by boomzilla on Dec 11, 2016 21:21:02 GMT -5
To start with, I'd try the free DC-300a with the PT-100. You already know that the DC-300a will drive the MLs OK... It may be a bit edgy in the treble, but the PT-100 has tone controls - just crank down the treble by a notch.
Still not happy with the sound? Get about the same SQ as the DC-300a with a Crown XLS amp or step up in SQ to the Emotiva A-300. But before I bought the A-300, I'd email Emotiva tech support & ask if their warranty will cover the A-300 with the ML speakers!
Boom
|
|
|
Post by vneal on Dec 12, 2016 8:32:42 GMT -5
ML owner
Get a DSonic 600 watt 2 channel and be done with it.
|
|
|
Post by tieftoener on Jan 9, 2017 16:01:00 GMT -5
This is old, but thought I'd chime in anyway... FWIW, the TA-100 still has the pre-level outputs and an amp trigger, so you could always upgrade/add a bigger amp later if power is what you really need. I have the Mini-X A-100 amp that is basically the same amp module that is inside the TA-100 (and is now the BasX A-100). If you consider the price difference between the PT-100 and the TA-100, it's a slam dunk. They basically give you an A-100 for $100 (less than half-price). IMO, that's a real bargain. The A-100 is one heck of an amp. It bests many larger amps that I've had and compared it against (notably, I preferred it over the Outlaw 750 & ATI 1506 & Parasound HCA-855A) - obviously it can't compete in outright power, but sound quality is top notch at the levels it is capable of reproducing, which is more than enough for the average living room (unless you're speakers have abnormally low efficiency). I recently ordered a TA-100, set to deliver tomorrow. I'm planning to use it in my living room system to minimize the footprint (currently using a (huge) modified Outlaw 950 preamp, only in stereo mode) and keep the great sound I'm getting from the Mini-X A-100 amp I have there now (I have future plans for my Mini-X ). I'll also get a top-notch DAC (AD1955) in the TA-100, which I anticipate will be even better SQ than the CS4396 DACs in the Outlaw 950. In short, the TA-100 still provides the opportunity to upgrade your amp in the future, if/when you want to. emotiva.com/sites/default/files/styles/product_very_large/public/ta100_reariso.png?itok=uhIG-6s7
|
|
novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,213
|
Post by novisnick on Jan 9, 2017 16:29:01 GMT -5
This is old, but thought I'd chime in anyway... FWIW, the TA-100 still has the pre-level outputs and an amp trigger, so you could always upgrade/add a bigger amp later if power is what you really need. I have the Mini-X A-100 amp that is basically the same amp module that is inside the TA-100 (and is now the BasX A-100). If you consider the price difference between the PT-100 and the TA-100, it's a slam dunk. They basically give you an A-100 for $100 (less than half-price). IMO, that's a real bargain. The A-100 is one heck of an amp. It bests many larger amps that I've had and compared it against (notably, I preferred it over the Outlaw 750 & ATI 1506 & Parasound HCA-855A) - obviously it can't compete in outright power, but sound quality is top notch at the levels it is capable of reproducing, which is more than enough for the average living room (unless you're speakers have abnormally low efficiency). I recently ordered a TA-100, set to deliver tomorrow. I'm planning to use it in my living room system to minimize the footprint (currently using a (huge) modified Outlaw 950 preamp, only in stereo mode) and keep the great sound I'm getting from the Mini-X A-100 amp I have there now (I have future plans for my Mini-X ). I'll also get a top-notch DAC (AD1955) in the TA-100, which I anticipate will be even better SQ than the CS4396 DACs in the Outlaw 950. In short, the TA-100 still provides the opportunity to upgrade your amp in the future, if/when you want to. emotiva.com/sites/default/files/styles/product_very_large/public/ta100_reariso.png?itok=uhIG-6s7 True! Nice job! I enjoy my TA-100 daily.
|
|
|
Post by nn on Oct 14, 2017 5:45:44 GMT -5
This is old, but thought I'd chime in anyway... FWIW, the TA-100 still has the pre-level outputs and an amp trigger, so you could always upgrade/add a bigger amp later if power is what you really need. I have the Mini-X A-100 amp that is basically the same amp module that is inside the TA-100 (and is now the BasX A-100). If you consider the price difference between the PT-100 and the TA-100, it's a slam dunk. They basically give you an A-100 for $100 (less than half-price). IMO, that's a real bargain. The A-100 is one heck of an amp. It bests many larger amps that I've had and compared it against (notably, I preferred it over the Outlaw 750 & ATI 1506 & Parasound HCA-855A) - obviously it can't compete in outright power, but sound quality is top notch at the levels it is capable of reproducing, which is more than enough for the average living room (unless you're speakers have abnormally low efficiency). I recently ordered a TA-100, set to deliver tomorrow. I'm planning to use it in my living room system to minimize the footprint (currently using a (huge) modified Outlaw 950 preamp, only in stereo mode) and keep the great sound I'm getting from the Mini-X A-100 amp I have there now (I have future plans for my Mini-X ). I'll also get a top-notch DAC (AD1955) in the TA-100, which I anticipate will be even better SQ than the CS4396 DACs in the Outlaw 950. In short, the TA-100 still provides the opportunity to upgrade your amp in the future, if/when you want to. emotiva.com/sites/default/files/styles/product_very_large/public/ta100_reariso.png?itok=uhIG-6s7 Does the TA100 with preout connected to the Airmotiv5 powered sound better than a Airmotiv passive
|
|
novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,213
|
Post by novisnick on Nov 11, 2017 18:06:20 GMT -5
creimes make sure you give us your feedback when you’ve had time. Thanks, Im keeping mine.
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Nov 11, 2017 18:43:22 GMT -5
creimes make sure you give us your feedback when you’ve had time. Thanks, Im keeping mine. I'll try the TA-100 on my Chane A5rx-c towers
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Nov 11, 2017 18:59:26 GMT -5
creimes make sure you give us your feedback when you’ve had time. Thanks, Im keeping mine. I also got my buddy in Kelowna BC to grab one for his living room setup he is building, he bought it through Summit Hi-Fi and plans to get the T1 for speakers in the near future.
|
|
novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,213
|
Post by novisnick on Nov 11, 2017 19:08:45 GMT -5
creimes make sure you give us your feedback when you’ve had time. Thanks, Im keeping mine. I also got my buddy in Kelowna BC to grab one for his living room setup he is building, he bought it through Summit Hi-Fi and plans to get the T1 for speakers in the near future. I think he will be very happy with it. If he ever wants more power or try a tube amp he’s good to go. So very versatile.
|
|
|
Post by Justme on Dec 31, 2017 17:51:29 GMT -5
Hi Boomzilla,
Your comments here have been quite helpful to me. I have a set of old Maganapan MG-III kind of on permanent loan for a few years (likely to be replaced by a newer model when the owner reclaims them). I have been looking for something exactly like the TA-100 to drive them. Even the price is right for my budget. I am very concerned about low impudence performance. Your input here has kind of talked me out of it, but I thought I'd ask about my specific use before giving up. I do not listen at very high levels, nor will I use them for movies, but I do want something that will sound good and be reliable. Room size is 12x14ft, 9ft ceiling. I had been using these with an old very low powered (20W) NAD integrated amp quite successfully, though it did blow the HF fuses once. That amp found a new home during a reno so now I'm looking for a replacement. Input source will be digital 90% of the time and phono the rest.
I would be interested in your (or anybody else's here) thoughts.
I also see mention here that the BasX power amps use the same basic topology, so I assume something like the A-150 would have related issues?
|
|
|
Post by tchaik on Dec 31, 2017 19:39:00 GMT -5
Hi Boomzilla, Your comments here have been quite helpful to me. I have a set of old Maganapan MG-III kind of on permanent loan for a few years (likely to be replaced by a newer model when the owner reclaims them). I have been looking for something exactly like the TA-100 to drive them. Even the price is right for my budget. I am very concerned about low impudence performance. Your input here has kind of talked me out of it, but I thought I'd ask about my specific use before giving up. I do not listen at very high levels, nor will I use them for movies, but I do want something that will sound good and be reliable. Room size is 12x14ft, 9ft ceiling. I had been using these with an old very low powered (20W) NAD integrated amp quite successfully, though it did blow the HF fuses once. That amp found a new home during a reno so now I'm looking for a replacement. Input source will be digital 90% of the time and phono the rest. I would be interested in your (or anybody else's here) thoughts. I also see mention here that the BasX power amps use the same basic topology, so I assume something like the A-150 would have related issues? I am very familiar with Maggies and know that they are a reasonable resistive load. here is what I wrote in sept after I got home from the emofest. I think you will be pleased with the TA-100. "so, being an owner of the xmc-1, and the xpr-2 and xpr-5 amps, former owner of xsp-1 preamp and other related emo components, I was expecting their budget stuff to not be embarrassing but I didn't expect this. I bought (at the emofest) the base x ta-100 and the cd-100 with other uses in mind but opened them up for the first time today and decided to try out the components hooked up to my main speakers in the living room just for the heck of it (no subs). mind you, these have been hooked up to the xsp-1 and xpr-2 in the past and now the xmc-1 plus the xpr's for both stereo listening and surround sound. I first started with Ramsey Lewis (Brazilica), followed by Mickey Hart (Planet Drum;udu chant and temple caves) and topped off with Reference Recording's Rachmaninoff's (Symphonic Dances, mvt. 1). to quote our president.... SON OF A *bleep*...... is this thing dynamic, open, sweet, non-fatigueing and downright just plain listenable and FUN. now wait a second.... this amp is 50 watts at 8 ohms and my xpr-2 is 600 at 8 ohms..... HOLY CRAP.... this is not supposed to be.... my xmc-1 and xpr-2 and erc-1 is a total of $4800 in components and the 2 base x components are a total of $700. granted, I did not try to push the ta-100 into clipping but it played damn loud without strain. my speakers are rated at about 86.5 db at 1 watt at 1 meter. so these are not super efficient speakers. again.... if life forced me to give up my higher priced stuff, I could still live with these itsy bitsy teeny weeny yellow polka dot bikini..... oops... got a little carried away there........ I could still live with my music being played through these very, very, very modest pieces of equipment. CONGRATS EMOTIVA...... YOU REALLY HIT IT OUT OF THE PARK THIS TIME.......... btw.... I am going to keep these two pieces of equipment in the living room for a while to play with ( to the consternation of my wife) before I eventually move the CD player to the piano room and give the ta-100 to my daughter to replace an aging receiver. and we'll have fun, fun, fun till your daddy takes the emo away.......... " tchaik....................
|
|
|
Post by frenchyfranky on Jan 18, 2018 10:30:25 GMT -5
Hi Boomzilla, Your comments here have been quite helpful to me. I have a set of old Maganapan MG-III kind of on permanent loan for a few years (likely to be replaced by a newer model when the owner reclaims them). I have been looking for something exactly like the TA-100 to drive them. Even the price is right for my budget. I am very concerned about low impudence performance. Your input here has kind of talked me out of it, but I thought I'd ask about my specific use before giving up. I do not listen at very high levels, nor will I use them for movies, but I do want something that will sound good and be reliable. Room size is 12x14ft, 9ft ceiling. I had been using these with an old very low powered (20W) NAD integrated amp quite successfully, though it did blow the HF fuses once. That amp found a new home during a reno so now I'm looking for a replacement. Input source will be digital 90% of the time and phono the rest. I would be interested in your (or anybody else's here) thoughts. I also see mention here that the BasX power amps use the same basic topology, so I assume something like the A-150 would have related issues? I am very familiar with Maggies and know that they are a reasonable resistive load. here is what I wrote in sept after I got home from the emofest. I think you will be pleased with the TA-100. "so, being an owner of the xmc-1, and the xpr-2 and xpr-5 amps, former owner of xsp-1 preamp and other related emo components, I was expecting their budget stuff to not be embarrassing but I didn't expect this. I bought (at the emofest) the base x ta-100 and the cd-100 with other uses in mind but opened them up for the first time today and decided to try out the components hooked up to my main speakers in the living room just for the heck of it (no subs). mind you, these have been hooked up to the xsp-1 and xpr-2 in the past and now the xmc-1 plus the xpr's for both stereo listening and surround sound. I first started with Ramsey Lewis (Brazilica), followed by Mickey Hart (Planet Drum;udu chant and temple caves) and topped off with Reference Recording's Rachmaninoff's (Symphonic Dances, mvt. 1). to quote our president.... SON OF A *bleep*...... is this thing dynamic, open, sweet, non-fatigueing and downright just plain listenable and FUN. now wait a second.... this amp is 50 watts at 8 ohms and my xpr-2 is 600 at 8 ohms..... HOLY CRAP.... this is not supposed to be.... my xmc-1 and xpr-2 and erc-1 is a total of $4800 in components and the 2 base x components are a total of $700. granted, I did not try to push the ta-100 into clipping but it played damn loud without strain. my speakers are rated at about 86.5 db at 1 watt at 1 meter. so these are not super efficient speakers. again.... if life forced me to give up my higher priced stuff, I could still live with these itsy bitsy teeny weeny yellow polka dot bikini..... oops... got a little carried away there........ I could still live with my music being played through these very, very, very modest pieces of equipment. CONGRATS EMOTIVA...... YOU REALLY HIT IT OUT OF THE PARK THIS TIME.......... btw.... I am going to keep these two pieces of equipment in the living room for a while to play with ( to the consternation of my wife) before I eventually move the CD player to the piano room and give the ta-100 to my daughter to replace an aging receiver. and we'll have fun, fun, fun till your daddy takes the emo away.......... " tchaik.................... Absolutely got the same feeling as you. I received this little receiver 3 weeks ago to improve my garage man cave experiences working 2.1 mode together with a pair of Bas-X Sat and sub8. As I'm familiar listening my main system of XMC-1 XPA-1s , I really don't expecting to much of this little receiver and speakers but only an honest and clean sound. Wwwwooooaaaattttt I obtained from this very affordable and modest kit it largely over all my expectations, exceptionally powerful, responsive and dynamic for there size, very smooth and detailed, I'm very surprised no astonished. I couldn't be more happier, I nearly have the same sonic class in my man cave as my main living room system for a fraction of the cost. Long live Emotiva.
|
|
|
Post by vneal on Jan 18, 2018 11:04:21 GMT -5
I too am happy with Emotiva. I put my $ now where it matters-speakers
|
|
|
Post by Guest on Jan 30, 2018 4:42:47 GMT -5
Hi! I check the user manual and did not find any information about list of supported Bluetooth modules. I must use emotiva BTM-1 or it can be any other aptx-compatible dongle?
|
|
novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,213
|
Post by novisnick on Jan 30, 2018 6:58:19 GMT -5
Hi! I check the user manual and did not find any information about list of supported Bluetooth modules. I must use emotiva BTM-1 or it can be any other aptx-compatible dongle? BTM-1 only.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,902
|
Post by KeithL on Jan 30, 2018 9:54:16 GMT -5
It must be an Emotiva BTM-1. There is no actual standard for Bluetooth modules (from the hardware connection side of things). The wiring on the connector is specifically set up for that module... and is designed to work with it. To be honest, there are a lot of similar Bluetooth modules in the world, and some others may be wired the same way... HOWEVER, if you try a different type of module, and it doesn't work, you may permanently damage the module or the TA-100. (And that wouldn't be covered under warranty.) Hi! I check the user manual and did not find any information about list of supported Bluetooth modules. I must use emotiva BTM-1 or it can be any other aptx-compatible dongle?
|
|