hemster
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Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
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Post by hemster on Dec 22, 2016 9:18:29 GMT -5
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Post by leonski on Mar 29, 2022 22:50:01 GMT -5
As it turns out? MOST sets in the US are left untouched. I hope that is changing but am not an optimist.
I am ordinarily NOT a fan of audioholics 'advice' but I'll make an exception in this case.
and while the advice is going on 6 years old, it is still valid.
Another strategy is to look up your exact set and try to copy the settings from a published calibration.......this may or may not work.....
but some of the basic stuff in the Audioholics article? Gotta help.......Though SOME menu items are buried so you may nee help just FINDING some settings.
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Post by marcl on Mar 30, 2022 6:33:17 GMT -5
The S&M disc is very helpful and some guidance really makes a difference in getting a neutral and accurate "cinematic" picture. That is, within the limits of the simple controls in the regular TV menu. But I went a step further since I have an LG TV supported by the Calman software from Portrait Displays. It was a struggle and took a couple weeks of long calibration times and failures and finally a couple exchanges with tech support and even a beta copy of software to fix an issue (sound familiar?). But finally it worked. The before and after measurements showed a 10X improvement in both grayscale and color accuracy. The S&M disc confirmed the improvement in standard dynamic range, HDR10 and Dolby Vision. The Calman software goes into the deep controls that are not accessible through the TV's regular menu. You would have to have specific training and access code to get to these adjustments and know how to use them. The Calman software does it iteratively and automatically using a colorimeter and simple user setup. Takes about four hours to run all three calibrations. Yes I could have hired someone to do the calibration for the same or less cost as the software license plus colorimeter. But I could not find a local reference to someone I would trust to do a proper job (i.e. not Geek Squad).   |
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Post by leonski on Mar 30, 2022 14:10:45 GMT -5
Finding an ISF guy CAN be daunting. And like you? Who the heck would I trust?
Many years ago? I used DVE....Digital Video Essentials....which was I think.....either at the start or immediately before HD. No Can Remember.....
the largest SINGLE improvement? Power Conditioner on my Panasonic CRT 'round front' 36". Set weighed a TON....But once all that 'snow'
disappeared? It was all good after that.
For my Nickel? I won't GO NEAR the 2nd level menus. Once you screw THAT up? Best of luck. I looked for a color Spyder to work
with the TV....and connect to a computer which changed TV settings? But never found anything which it appears NOW is available.
And one last thing? A FEW out there DO NOT like a calibrated set. They have gotten used to 'stock'.....and a good display somehow offends......
When I worked at Frye's (!) I worked camera / TV / Home Electronics......Me and one ot the other guys adjusted the than-new 80" set to perfection.
Finally! A good picture out of that beast. But the boss made us 'put it back' since apparently it's the sizzle that sells.......whatever!
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 30, 2022 14:27:12 GMT -5
Agree with Leonski....I used one of the DVE discs and online recommendations to "calibrate" a friends set got the picture looking good...next time I was over, he had it in "torch" mode! Said he liked the vibrant picture.
Wow...just wow.
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Post by zoomer67 on Mar 30, 2022 16:55:59 GMT -5
I agree about the DVE setup disc. I have found it to be quite helpful when I purchased my current LG unit. My tv surprisingly also has a built-in ISF picture setting and it works well though I use the optional 'custom setting' that I set up with the DVE video patterns as well as a local TV station that had a really great test pattern screen on their one sub-channel for a while;it even had cool channel ID audio..'left channel...right channel'  |
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Post by gus4emo on Mar 30, 2022 18:16:22 GMT -5
Finding an ISF guy CAN be daunting. And like you? Who the heck would I trust? Many years ago? I used DVE....Digital Video Essentials....which was I think.....either at the start or immediately before HD. No Can Remember..... the largest SINGLE improvement? Power Conditioner on my Panasonic CRT 'round front' 36". Set weighed a TON....But once all that 'snow' disappeared? It was all good after that. For my Nickel? I won't GO NEAR the 2nd level menus. Once you screw THAT up? Best of luck. I looked for a color Spyder to work with the TV....and connect to a computer which changed TV settings? But never found anything which it appears NOW is available. And one last thing? A FEW out there DO NOT like a calibrated set. They have gotten used to 'stock'.....and a good display somehow offends...... When I worked at Frye's (!) I worked camera / TV / Home Electronics......Me and one ot the other guys adjusted the than-new 80" set to perfection. Finally! A good picture out of that beast. But the boss made us 'put it back' since apparently it's the sizzle that sells.......whatever! DVE was out around when 480P came out. |
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Post by leonski on Mar 30, 2022 19:45:18 GMT -5
I'll look around to see if I still have this disc. I think it was good for 16:9 displays, too.....
All I remember was it was VERY useful to set black levels. It even had a BELOW black test which some DVD players fail.
It was useful at the time but of course WAY off the curve.
I think it even had some VERY basic multi-channel setup helps, also way behind current standards....
Setting colors by EYE makes the assumption that the user has NO color blindness......
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Post by leonski on Mar 30, 2022 22:13:26 GMT -5
I found the disc. right. Pre HD. No mention of HDMI or higher resolutions.
But for things like color and black level? Should still be OK. My disc has extensive color / contrast / grey scale and geometry setups......
Disc even has a RGB color gel set
I think this part should STILL be useful. And the Audio? Dolby and DTS 5.1 supported. And they distinguish between LFE and other....at the same frequency band of 40hz to 80hz.
Bass management goes to 15hz.
I may test this later and just check out how useable it may or may NOT actually be.
I don't know how to use some of the 'other' sectins, as for 'flat field' or SMPTE or even 'multiburst'....whatever those are.
But it does have sections on 1.38 and 1.78 frame ratios. So called 'letterbox' ratio. I may play the disc just so see that!
I may look at current self-help disc offerings. I'd also like to see a disc which included some HDR material....
I remember now....the MENU portion is a little convoluted and will drive you nuts trying to find a SPECIFIC point......
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Post by leonski on Mar 31, 2022 21:04:45 GMT -5
I followed Marci's lead and hit the Mother Lode of calibration / check sites. More than I can make sense of AND several comparison reviews.......
Costs vary as apparently does ease of use.....
The Spears and Munson disc is now up to 4k while the original is still available and in Blue Ray......THAT may be the sweet spot, depending on cost.....
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Mar 31, 2022 21:46:44 GMT -5
Another strategy is to look up your exact set and try to copy the settings from a published calibration.......this may or may not work..... While the actual panels may be called the same name, ie: LG's OLED panels that are widely sold to Sony, Vizio, LG Display and yes even Samsung now, are called WBC and WBE, the uniformity in the manufacturing process by no means make them equal, thus varying degrees and levels of rejection are put in to the selection process especially by Sony with their XR OLED models. Not only can one assume varying differences among the actual panels, the hardware in the TV's by these manufacturers, the processors, scalers and the software/firmware algorithms as well as the tone mapping play a huge part in what we all see. Thus copying settings such as black levels, luminance, color adjustments and especially advance color temperature multi-point settings and white points, are a crap shoot at best. Thus, for the most part, each TV has it's own distinct settings that will bring it into spec within D65 white point industry standards to make it look its best and without a whole bunch of training by ISF, I would never trust my eyes to make these settings either. imagingscience.com/ |
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Mar 31, 2022 22:03:03 GMT -5
The Calman software goes into the deep controls that are not accessible through the TV's regular menu. You would have to have specific training and access code to get to these adjustments and know how to use them. The Calman software does it iteratively and automatically using a colorimeter and simple user setup. Takes about four hours to run all three calibrations. Yes I could have hired someone to do the calibration for the same or less cost as the software license plus colorimeter. But I could not find a local reference to someone I would trust to do a proper job (i.e. not Geek Squad). Hey Marc, there are several ISF professionals that I have researched in the past before I decided on one that toured my area regularly. I have since seen enough reviews of some of these ISF calibrators that I would trust to come into my home and calibrate my OLED's. Luckily a local friend of mine knew of and still uses one of these professionals that I too have now been using for 12 years now. His website link is below. When I get time this weekend or the next weekend, I'll dig up those other ISF guys that travel and post them here as well. www.hdtvbychadb.com/ |
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Post by leonski on Apr 1, 2022 0:37:41 GMT -5
Another strategy is to look up your exact set and try to copy the settings from a published calibration.......this may or may not work..... While the actual panels may be called the same name, ie: LG's OLED panels that are widely sold to Sony, Vizio, LG Display and yes even Samsung now, are called WBC and WBE, the uniformity in the manufacturing process by no means make them equal, thus varying degrees and levels of rejection are put in to the selection process especially by Sony with their XR OLED models. Not only can one assume varying differences among the actual panels, the hardware in the TV's by these manufacturers, the processors, scalers and the software/firmware algorithms as well as the tone mapping play a huge part in what we all see. Thus copying settings such as black levels, luminance, color adjustments and especially advance color temperature multi-point settings and white points, are a crap shoot at best. Thus, for the most part, each TV has it's own distinct settings that will bring it into spec within D65 white point industry standards to make it look its best and without a whole bunch of training by ISF, I would never trust my eyes to make these settings either. imagingscience.com/You don't 'match' by technology.....or model series....but you MUST go by Model Number. That's the start of the rabbit hole...... That seems to be as good a match as possible. I did a Panasonic 50" Plasma TV by that method and got pretty decent results. The problem might be set-to-set variation which is unaccounted for in such published settings... And yes, When I first saw OLED by 'other' builders? LG making the panels and everybody else supplying the electronics. After having done decades of photo editing and even looking at photos ON TV after edit? My eyes are pretty good. Not ISF good, but I've learned a few things about what to look for...... |
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Apr 3, 2022 12:29:41 GMT -5
The Calman software goes into the deep controls that are not accessible through the TV's regular menu. You would have to have specific training and access code to get to these adjustments and know how to use them. The Calman software does it iteratively and automatically using a colorimeter and simple user setup. Takes about four hours to run all three calibrations. Yes I could have hired someone to do the calibration for the same or less cost as the software license plus colorimeter. But I could not find a local reference to someone I would trust to do a proper job (i.e. not Geek Squad). Hey Marc, there are several ISF professionals that I have researched in the past before I decided on one that toured my area regularly. I have since seen enough reviews of some of these ISF calibrators that I would trust to come into my home and calibrate my OLED's. Luckily a local friend of mine knew of and still uses one of these professionals that I too have now been using for 12 years now. His website link is below. When I get time this weekend or the next weekend, I'll dig up those other ISF guys that travel and post them here as well. www.hdtvbychadb.com/Hey Marc, My traveling for work has been extended for another week, but I was able to find the info on one of the other ISF professionals that made my short list. His company is located up in the New England area and I know he tours/travels as he also does tours of Florida, where I live. He's also well known in the "Display Calibration" section of the AVS Forum. www.lionav.com/gregg-loewen/You can also go to the ISF website and find the registered ISF calibrators in your area. imagingscience.com/dealers/ |
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Post by leonski on Apr 3, 2022 14:44:35 GMT -5
Just thinking of 'ISF Calibration Technicians'......I wonder what it takes? Sign up and register? OR do you need a (best case) series of certifications on the subjects of human perception and visual issues..... Website lists 11 (eleven) online modules in level one....... imagingscience.com/isf-online-certification-for-isf-website/ |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Apr 5, 2022 10:51:06 GMT -5
If you haven't already check out the RTings review site (www.rtings.com).
The do extensive tests...
But they also list calibration recommendations on many models...
And people also tend to include lots of discussion about calibration, and recommended settings, in their comments...
Modern TVs tend to be rather consistent... so sometimes it works out quite well to simply use the settings that worked well for someone else.
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cawgijoe
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"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 5, 2022 10:57:28 GMT -5
If you haven't already check out the RTings review site (www.rtings.com). The do extensive tests... But they also list calibration recommendations on many models... And people also tend to include lots of discussion about calibration, and recommended settings, in their comments... Modern TVs tend to be rather consistent... so sometimes it works out quite well to simply use the settings that worked well for someone else. This is what I do. I use Rtings settings and then tweak as I see fit. I realize that the disclaimer is that no two sets are the same, but this works very well for me. |
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Post by leonski on Apr 5, 2022 22:53:57 GMT -5
Good.....I'd completely lost track of where to go to get some sample settings......
I had done this with my Panasonic S30 Plasma with decent results. The '30' series was
maybe 4 years or so before Panny droppyed out of Plasma altogther.....
I also suspect Keith is right about newer sets being much more consistent from the factory....
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Post by hsamwel on Dec 14, 2022 9:02:47 GMT -5
Just saw this.. I want to comment on one thing though.
The thing about reviews is that they more than often use presales samples in testing.
These don’t have the exact onsale factory calibration. Sometimes huge changes.
Example. I bought the Sony VPL-XW5000 projector. Got some calibration settings from
internet. Both for HDR and SDR. The SDR settings are pretty much spot on. After checking them
out in Spears and Munsil they are near perfection. However Sony had done some huge changes
to the HDR. Because their calibrated settings was pretty much unusable. Both gray scale, contrast
and brightness was really off. Also the hue of each color seemed to be too much.
I had to ”hand” calibrate to get the gray scale to match that of the SDR.
But after I had tried to fix the white point.
Also the contrast and brightness had to be reset. For example the reviewer had set the contrast level
to 70. After reading some later info and doing some tests on my own I found 48 to be max before
clipping whites. This btw made a huge difference to the picture quality. Still extremely bright for
a projector but I could now see all the detail in the bright scenes.
Sony still has issues with HDR and dark scenes that tend to be too dark. But that has mainly to
do with missing tone mapping.
Could be that the calibrator set the HDR mode higher so the dark scenes would be brighter.
But in my room that was not good.
Yes I am aware that projector calibration should always be done per setup due to the many
external factors. I just tried them to see if they could do some improvements.
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Post by dvcdude on Apr 29, 2024 6:17:34 GMT -5
I gave up my calibration business a few years ago. Most people do not see the value in video calibration with all these self help threads available. I had thousands invested in equipment, training and software. Very few people wanted to pay for calibration. You can actually purchase software that will automatically calibrate your display on many modern brands and with an inexpensive meter just DIY. store.portrait.com/consumer-software.html |
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