klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 28, 2016 18:55:22 GMT -5
Is it me or does an audio enthusiast or audiophile who enjoys arguing that "they all sound the same" is a walking oxymoron, a contradiction in terms? Just wondering  Did you mistype? Did you mean "walking oxymoron"?  Mark |
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Post by yves on Dec 28, 2016 19:01:26 GMT -5
Is it me or does an audio enthusiast or audiophile who enjoys arguing that "they all sound the same" is a walking oxymoron, a contradiction in terms? Just wondering It is you because even though the risk of buying snake oil products can be bad for my bank account, pseudoscientific tests tend to be much horrible for my music listening experience. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 19:22:51 GMT -5
[quote author=" Boomzilla " such tests so seldom show any difference at all" Precisely why I consider them invaluable, particularly with regard to dispelling myths about wires. Billl "dispelling myths about wires" I have heard differences in wires!! Gact! And could tell you which ones the were! ! Sorry to pop your bubble 🎈! Respectfully, Im not getting into this pissing match! Thank you. You just did!  |
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 28, 2016 19:25:07 GMT -5
I have absolutely no doubt that blind testing, double blind testing, etc. is useful and has its place. That said, I also think people can get too obsessed about it. From my own perspective, I don't have time to be conducting these detailed, time-consuming tests and ensuring all of the variables are controlled, etc. It's a whole lot easier to just listen to the devices and then pick whichever one you like best. I say "like best" not necessarily "sound best." One may say, our ears may be fooling us because we haven't sufficiently controlled the variables and thus are not making an apples to apples comparison. For example, the sound wasn't exactly matched. To this I agree, but so what? After you fiddle around with whatever you are evaluating and one seems to consistently please you over the others, then who cares? What happens if your ears tell you something the measurements don't? Or even though in the blind test, you still somehow can't accept the results? Are you going to follow your own heart/mind or be strictly scientific about it? Logically if you conduct the test properly then the two ought to be one in the same, but perhaps that is not always the case. Nevertheless, my point is why not just listen and pick whichever sounds the best to you. If you wind up having regrets because maybe, just maybe you didn't conduct your double blind seeing eye dog test exactly right, then either (1) your enjoyment comes not from music or video but from endless fretting over equipment; and/or, (2) you need another hobby. Taking the message from this video to being an "audiophile," what if the worst is true - what if you (aghast) happen to pick something that is .00001 not as good as what you should have picked? Life is too short to be worrying about such fluff. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 19:55:55 GMT -5
.......... To me, it's a little bit like if someone were to start a thread entitled: "Why Santa Claus is absolutely positively real......" .......... you're not going to convince me that there's really a jolly fat fellow riding around on a flying sled. Sorry Keith but I have to set you straight here about Santa Claus. He is in fact absolutely positively real! I can prove it. I'm currently here in Sendai Japan and I'll post a photo below of Santa Craus. When I was young (5-10) I had a friend Russell who lived down the alley and several houses on the other side. His father was a pharmacist/drug store owner and reasonably well off. Our family was quite poor. At Christmas I would get a few presents from family and maybe one or two from Santa. When I was down at his house I would see maybe 25 or more presents for Russell just from Santa. Fortunately I never concluded that Santa didn't like me near as much as Russell, maybe I had just been a bad boy more often. Anyway, when I was about 7 or so Russell and I had a very serious discussion about Santa. Russell said Santa wasn't real. I knew he was in fact real and I explained why. I told Russell that no ones parents could possibly afford all the presents they gave him that were supposedly from Santa, so therefore they had to be from Santa. To this day my logic continues to be unequivocally correct!  |
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Post by yves on Dec 28, 2016 19:57:18 GMT -5
"dispelling myths about wires" I have heard differences in wires!! Gact! And could tell you which ones the were! ! Sorry to pop your bubble 🎈! Respectfully, Im not getting into this pissing match! Thank you. You just did! ...And already getting wet.  |
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Post by yves on Dec 28, 2016 20:02:38 GMT -5
pick whichever one you like best. I say "like best" not necessarily "sound best." In the end that's precisely what everyone does, including even the die hard objectivists. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 20:15:44 GMT -5
I have absolutely no doubt that blind testing, double blind testing, etc. is useful and has its place. That said, I also think people can get too obsessed about it. Maybe, you should take that Ancestry DNA test that the LDS (Mormons) sell online and you would find that the Boom and Garbulky are your very close relatives! Did they also get fooled by the Skiing Ninja Speaker Ultimate Speaker Updrade? I hear it "sounded" good to many. (What's an hour or two with my Easy Nut Test for a hobby on which one spends thousands of dollars. Operators are standing by.) |
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Post by yves on Dec 28, 2016 20:21:34 GMT -5
I have absolutely no doubt that blind testing, double blind testing, etc. is useful and has its place. That said, I also think people can get too obsessed about it. Maybe, you should take that Ancestry DNA test that the LDS (Mormons) sell online and you would find that the Boom and Garbulky are your very close relatives! Did they also get fooled by the Skiing Ninja Speaker Ultimate Speaker Updrade? I hear it "sounded" good to many. (What's an hour or two with my Easy Nut Test for a hobby on which one spends thousands of dollars. Operators are standing by.) But have you detected the Higgs Bose particle yet?  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 20:28:07 GMT -5
Maybe, you should take that Ancestry DNA test that the LDS (Mormons) sell online and you would find that the Boom and Garbulky are your very close relatives! Did they also get fooled by the Skiing Ninja Speaker Ultimate Speaker Updrade? I hear it "sounded" good to many. (What's an hour or two with my Easy Nut Test for a hobby on which one spends thousands of dollars. Operators are standing by.) But have you detected the Higgs Bose particle yet? No, but I got fooled big time in 1971 when Amar Bose pulled the wool over my eyes with the original Bose 901, my worst speaker buy ever! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 20:43:59 GMT -5
Wonderful movie scene. Woody Allen is the complete opposite of completely worthless! |
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Post by novisnick on Dec 28, 2016 20:53:39 GMT -5
"dispelling myths about wires" I have heard differences in wires!! Gact! And could tell you which ones the were! ! Sorry to pop your bubble 🎈! Respectfully, Im not getting into this pissing match! Thank you. You just did! |
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 28, 2016 21:13:27 GMT -5
I have absolutely no doubt that blind testing, double blind testing, etc. is useful and has its place. That said, I also think people can get too obsessed about it. Maybe, you should take that Ancestry DNA test that the LDS (Mormons) sell online and you would find that the Boom and Garbulky are your very close relatives! Did they also get fooled by the Skiing Ninja Speaker Ultimate Speaker Updrade? I hear it "sounded" good to many. (What's an hour or two with my Easy Nut Test for a hobby on which one spends thousands of dollars. Operators are standing by.) Well now I do admit I got fooled on that one. Based on my MEMORY, I thought the modded Emo 6.2 with the Skiing Ninja crossover upgrade sounded better than the stock version. And I could list out the reasons why. Then when I actually did a side by side comparison between the modded and stock, I heard absolutely NO difference between the two. Now who do I believe, my memory or my real-time ears? Some would say believe my memory... |
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 28, 2016 21:14:07 GMT -5
pick whichever one you like best. I say "like best" not necessarily "sound best." In the end that's precisely what everyone does, including even the die hard objectivists. So then why waste time? Just cut out the middleman. |
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 28, 2016 21:16:02 GMT -5
.......... To me, it's a little bit like if someone were to start a thread entitled: "Why Santa Claus is absolutely positively real......" .......... you're not going to convince me that there's really a jolly fat fellow riding around on a flying sled. Sorry Keith but I have to set you straight here about Santa Claus. He is in fact absolutely positively real! I can prove it. I'm currently here in Sendai Japan and I'll post a photo below of Santa Craus. When I was young (5-10) I had a friend Russell who lived down the alley and several houses on the other side. His father was a pharmacist/drug store owner and reasonably well off. Our family was quite poor. At Christmas I would get a few presents from family and maybe one or two from Santa. When I was down at his house I would see maybe 25 or more presents for Russell just from Santa. Fortunately I never concluded that Santa didn't like me near as much as Russell, maybe I had just been a bad boy more often. Anyway, when I was about 7 or so Russell and I had a very serious discussion about Santa. Russell said Santa wasn't real. I knew he was in fact real and I explained why. I told Russell that no ones parents could possibly afford all the presents they gave him that were supposedly from Santa, so therefore they had to be from Santa. To this day my logic continues to be unequivocally correct! We had no chimney when I was growing up so I asked how does Santa get into our house? My mom said she would leave the front door unlocked. Now how does one reconcile being constantly told to never leave the front door open/unlocked versus leaving it open for this guy? Made no sense but I wasn't going to let common sense get in the way of whatever I wanted to believe. And don't tell me I've strayed off-topic because I haven't.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 21:45:52 GMT -5
We had no chimney when I was growing up so I asked how does Santa get into our house? My mom said she would leave the front door unlocked. Now how does one reconcile being constantly told to never leave the front door open/unlocked versus leaving it open for this guy? The Times They Are A-Changin' In this day and age it's probably wise to keep the doors locked!  |
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Post by drtrey3 on Dec 29, 2016 14:47:31 GMT -5
I cannot wrap my head about it being worthless, but having a background in running experiments I know that a true double blind test would be very, very difficult to run. As such, I think it is impractical.
Trey
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Post by Axis on Dec 29, 2016 14:52:56 GMT -5
So, is double-blind testing completely worthless ? No I did not read this thread.
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Post by Jim on Dec 29, 2016 14:55:11 GMT -5
So, is double-blind testing completely worthless ? No I did not read this thread. You saved yourself hours of time by not reading it. Those that think it was worthless still do and those that find merit still do. |
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Post by copperpipe on Dec 29, 2016 14:59:22 GMT -5
I cannot wrap my head about it being worthless, but having a background in running experiments I know that a true double blind test would be very, very difficult to run. As such, I think it is impractical. Trey What I don't understand is why this has to be difficult. You invite a buddy down, he swaps the equipment around a few times, you listen to your favourite music that you are very familiar with, you just make provisions so that you never know what equipment is being used. Is this difficult?? You're not trying to prove "is there a difference", you're trying to answer the question "can I consistently hear a difference". Obviously you play each DAC more than twice, but you don't have to listen hundreds of times either. Just be honest with yourself and your abilities and be willing to accept what the test tells you either way. Stop getting caught up in the labels of DBT or BT or proving null hypotheses, it's all irrelevant fluff. |
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