MC 700 issues thread

[sydhaynes]

Feb 2, 2017 19:18:50 GMT -5 hosko said:

Feb 2, 2017 18:49:28 GMT -5 sydhaynes said:

Back on topic, where I wish this thread would remain.  Some of us invested our hard earned money in this processor, I myself also purchased an A-700 amplifier and other accessories along with it. I could really care friggin' less what other manufacturers are offering or any other non related BS.  I'm at a point where I'm trying to decide whether to RMA my unit or wait for a firmware upgrade. Most times I get a new post alert and it's not even related to the MC-700 lately.

Could you mods/admin clean this thread up so others won't have to wade through all this unrelated crap?

That post wasn't on topic either, just pointing it out.

My post mentioned the MC-700.  Not outlaw, not Fortex.  Do you even own an MC-700 hosko or are you just here for fun and games?
6 minutes ago

[Dan Laufman]

Everybody please remain calm.

If you are concerned about your MC-700, please know that we are not going to stuff these down anyones throat. The issues that we have confirmed are all straightforward to resolve and will be addressed. We are working on this now.

I'm going to extend the 30 day trial period to allow the firmware update to be implemented and tried out by our customers. I'm quite confident that you'll end up being very happy with the MC-700.

In the meantime, please now that we are following up on all known issues and will have an update to your firmware very soon.

Thanks,
Big Dan

[cawgijoe]

And this is why I love this company. Kudos Big Dan.

[harlan]

Feb 2, 2017 21:22:13 GMT -5 Dan Laufman said:

Everybody please remain calm.

If you are concerned about your MC-700, please know that we are not going to stuff these down anyones throat. The issues that we have confirmed are all straightforward to resolve and will be addressed. We are working on this now.

I'm going to extend the 30 day trial period to allow the firmware update to be implemented and tried out by our customers. I'm quite confident that you'll end up being very happy with the MC-700.

In the meantime, please now that we are following up on all known issues and will have an update to your firmware very soon.

Thanks,
Big Dan

That sounds great but as I quoted you and asked earlier, can you tell us what issues you are working on so we can all be on the same page?

[beardedalbatross]

Feb 2, 2017 21:22:13 GMT -5 Dan Laufman said:

Everybody please remain calm.

If you are concerned about your MC-700, please know that we are not going to stuff these down anyones throat. The issues that we have confirmed are all straightforward to resolve and will be addressed. We are working on this now.

I'm going to extend the 30 day trial period to allow the firmware update to be implemented and tried out by our customers. I'm quite confident that you'll end up being very happy with the MC-700.

In the meantime, please now that we are following up on all known issues and will have an update to your firmware very soon.

Thanks,
Big Dan

Extending the trial period is very very good. This addresses the problem I had earlier of placing customers in the awkward position of keeping something they normally would not have because of not wanting to miss out on the sale price they received.

[Axis]

Feb 2, 2017 22:10:39 GMT -5 beardedalbatross said:

Feb 2, 2017 21:22:13 GMT -5 Dan Laufman said:

Everybody please remain calm.

If you are concerned about your MC-700, please know that we are not going to stuff these down anyones throat. The issues that we have confirmed are all straightforward to resolve and will be addressed. We are working on this now.

I'm going to extend the 30 day trial period to allow the firmware update to be implemented and tried out by our customers. I'm quite confident that you'll end up being very happy with the MC-700.

In the meantime, please now that we are following up on all known issues and will have an update to your firmware very soon.

Thanks,
Big Dan

Extending the trial period is very very good. This addresses the problem I had earlier of placing customers in the awkward position of keeping something they normally would not have because of not wanting to miss out on the sale price they received.

Everytime issues like this have come up in the past Emotiva has extended trial time or sale price. I look forward to when all there gear is made in America but Emotiva has always strived to update and correct issues during a products life. I think that as more time goes by and there products are made all in house in USA they will get a handle on all these issues this will not even be at roll out. I will say I think Emotiva needs to have there products solid at release if they can or have the fixes in short order. Lonnie was up front with an apology and heads up the EQ was an issue and fix was to come. I have confidence that there will be the fix to issues that need to be fixed per Emotiva.

[sydhaynes]

Feb 2, 2017 21:22:13 GMT -5 Dan Laufman said:

Everybody please remain calm.

If you are concerned about your MC-700, please know that we are not going to stuff these down anyones throat. The issues that we have confirmed are all straightforward to resolve and will be addressed. We are working on this now.

I'm going to extend the 30 day trial period to allow the firmware update to be implemented and tried out by our customers. I'm quite confident that you'll end up being very happy with the MC-700.

In the meantime, please now that we are following up on all known issues and will have an update to your firmware very soon.

Thanks,
Big Dan

Thank you Dan, that indeed takes a lot of the pressure off. However I too would like to know what issues are being addressed. I love the sound of this unit, but as far as moving it into my main system I feel it's not quite ready for prime time. I'm currently keeping it in the home office as a 5.1 system for testing purposes.

I appreciate your extending the trial period, that says a lot about your company.

[dmbaer]

Feb 2, 2017 21:22:13 GMT -5 Dan Laufman said:

I'm going to extend the 30 day trial period to allow the firmware update to be implemented and tried out by our customers. I'm quite confident that you'll end up being very happy with the MC-700.

In the meantime, please now that we are following up on all known issues and will have an update to your firmware very soon.

Thanks,
Big Dan

Thank you, Dan - a completely reasonable and customer-friendly response to this.  But a question: I called for and received my RMA info yesterday.  Can I just "sit on it" and wait until the firmware update is available before acting on it or is some other action on my part advisable?

Also (and I suspect I know the answer already), will the problem of dropped audio at the start of playback be addressed?  Can it even be fixed with firmware?

Thanks.

[rbk123]

Perhaps a call to the people who actually gave you the RMA would make more sense than a post on a message board to the company's president? I dunno, maybe it's just me but..

[dmbaer]

Debating now whether to act on the RMA opportunity or wait for the firmware upgrade - so my unit is boxed up at the moment. But I think I encountered another bug in my final testing that hasn't been mentioned so far. I was looking for other things, so this possible bug wasn't my primary focus at the time. I wonder if someone could quickly test this.

Selecting Analog or Digital from the remote is supposed to immediately take you to the last one used of that variety. I think I noted that it does not do that. This is trivial to test. Select Digital and push the button until you get to Optical. Select any HDMI input and then select Digital once again. It is supposed to take you immediately to Optical, but I suspect it may not.

[millst]

Outlaw's response to the Fortex question.

-tm

LCSeminole: As a leading moderator of the Emotiva Lounge, the contents
of your post are not surprising, other than that you are posting them in
"our" Saloon. We hope in the future, Emotiva welcomes our posts in
"their" Lounge.

As virtually all companies in our market do,
(including Emotiva using ODMs Tonewinner and Jade), we use external ODM
firms that present us with footprints of a basic design. While the
starting point and the "outside" of a product may resemble something
that was offered to others, the "insides" are designed and tested by us.

You asked about the similarity of the forthcoming Model 976 to an old OEM prototype. Here are just a few differences:

• The video board, the critical component of any processor, is 100% ours.
It was designed by Outlaw. A look at the pictures of both units
confirms this. It is our design, and ours, alone; including HDMI 2.0b
capability
• The audio board is also an Outlaw design. It uses DACs
and an output architecture that is quite different from any OEM product
and other similarly priced products. It is ours, and ours alone.
• The main board architecture and internal software code was also designed
Outlaw to accommodate the special requirements of the HDMI 2.0b inputs
on the video board. A quick check of the date and Outlaw identification
in the pictures show that clearly is the case.
• The user interface, including the PEQ system choices, was also created by Outlaw.
• Other special Outlaw only features are right there to see: take a close
look at our rear panel and these differences will be obvious.

Most importantly, the Model 976 has undergone extensive testing and
certification to assure that it works exactly as it should right out of
the box. Proper pre-launch beta testing is a vital product development
step some other companies leave to their customers to do after purchase.

Along with our internal software and hardware evaluations, industry veterans
assisted us with the beta testing so that we could catch and then squash
all the bugs. We then performed extensive regression testing to make
sure that what may have fixed one bug did not cause another. You can
only do this kind of testing when the final product is your own design.
We firmly believe that our customers should not Beta testers.

We trust that this answers the questions you have raised. That’s all well
and good, but here’s the bottom line: What is important is where a
product ends up--not where it started. When the Model 976 begins
shipping later this spring we invite everyone to order one for
themselves and compare it to what they are using now, or may have been
considering as an alternate purchase.

The final proof is in the listening and viewing. We are confident that the Model 976 will be the best product in its class.

[bolle]

Good response.

[doc1963]

I find it rather funny that they mention "Jade" as an ODM that Emotiva has used. Do they not realize that Jade is also owned by Dan Laufman, the owner of Emotiva?

As a former owner of Outlaw products, I wish them success. But please, have them turn those HDMI ports the right way around...

[Hair Nick]

Feb 7, 2017 13:56:05 GMT -5 doc1963 said:

I find it rather funny that they mention "Jade" as an ODM that Emotiva has used. Do they not realize that Jade is also owned by Dan Laufman, the owner of Emotiva?

I found that amusing too.

[brutiarti]

Punches here and there from both sides are part of a healthy competition that benefits the end consumer. I feel that outlaw as a brand is still missing something

[LCSeminole]

You forgot to add my actual post which I have added below, and thanks for posting this as I had forgotten I'd posted the question.

"For those of you not familiar with P-EQ, try checking out the REW software made available free through HomeTheaterShack. You will be amazed at what it can do with a properly calibrated microphone, like the miniDSP UMIK-1. As for the 976 being a "completely new product", it looks like an updated Fortex JZ-038S?".



I fully would have expected a new HDMI video board as the Fortex processor is a 2014/2015 model, thus HDMI ver 1.4 as well as newer DAC's. So technically this still looks like a Fortex platform that has been updated, so in my opinion "completely new product" is an overstatement. So the IR/triggers in/out's have been added, it's still built off an existing box, not to mention other similarities that I may have overlooked. I also don't believe that Dan or Lonnie has ever stated that the MC700 is a "completely new product", but we do know that the XMC-1, when introduced, and the upcoming RMC-1 was/is a completely new platform from the ground up(box design included) and owned in every form of manner by Dan. I do find my question a reasonable question, whether I'm a Lounge moderator or not, and no different from, "Gonk", a known Outlaw beta tester at time, asking many a question about the UMC-1 in it's day. Just for clarification, "Completely new product" to me means a completely new box design which includes 100% of the actual design on the inside. Whether that is a feasible definition or not, that is what I believe and I'm sure there are those with differing views.

Sorry for any of the off-topic discussion in this thread.

Feb 7, 2017 13:21:20 GMT -5 millst said:

Outlaw's response to the Fortex question.

-tm

LCSeminole: As a leading moderator of the Emotiva Lounge, the contents
of your post are not surprising, other than that you are posting them in
"our" Saloon. We hope in the future, Emotiva welcomes our posts in
"their" Lounge.

As virtually all companies in our market do,
(including Emotiva using ODMs Tonewinner and Jade), we use external ODM
firms that present us with footprints of a basic design. While the
starting point and the "outside" of a product may resemble something
that was offered to others, the "insides" are designed and tested by us.

You asked about the similarity of the forthcoming Model 976 to an old OEM prototype. Here are just a few differences:

• The video board, the critical component of any processor, is 100% ours.
It was designed by Outlaw. A look at the pictures of both units
confirms this. It is our design, and ours, alone; including HDMI 2.0b
capability
• The audio board is also an Outlaw design. It uses DACs
and an output architecture that is quite different from any OEM product
and other similarly priced products. It is ours, and ours alone.
• The main board architecture and internal software code was also designed
Outlaw to accommodate the special requirements of the HDMI 2.0b inputs
on the video board. A quick check of the date and Outlaw identification
in the pictures show that clearly is the case.
• The user interface, including the PEQ system choices, was also created by Outlaw.
• Other special Outlaw only features are right there to see: take a close
look at our rear panel and these differences will be obvious.

Most importantly, the Model 976 has undergone extensive testing and
certification to assure that it works exactly as it should right out of
the box. Proper pre-launch beta testing is a vital product development
step some other companies leave to their customers to do after purchase.

Along with our internal software and hardware evaluations, industry veterans
assisted us with the beta testing so that we could catch and then squash
all the bugs. We then performed extensive regression testing to make
sure that what may have fixed one bug did not cause another. You can
only do this kind of testing when the final product is your own design.
We firmly believe that our customers should not Beta testers.

We trust that this answers the questions you have raised. That’s all well
and good, but here’s the bottom line: What is important is where a
product ends up--not where it started. When the Model 976 begins
shipping later this spring we invite everyone to order one for
themselves and compare it to what they are using now, or may have been
considering as an alternate purchase.

The final proof is in the listening and viewing. We are confident that the Model 976 will be the best product in its class.

[millst]

Off-topic is probably my fault for not starting another thread in the first place. Would have been nice to have the discussion all in one place instead of scattered through this issues thread.

-tm

[Dan Laufman]

Hi all,
We're not picking on Outlaw... I think Nick got a kick out of the fact that Outlaw stated the new 976 was an all new original design from the ground up, which it is clearly not. It is just like the 975, a modified version of an existing Fortex platform. We've had that unit laying around here for a year or two. They've been trying to sell it to everyone in town, including us. No big deal...

That's fine. No one cares. It's just that Outlaw probably should not be so adamant that it is original work, when it is clearly not. We all use ODM companies to various degrees to bring products to market. We've always been very open about this fact, while some people try to conceal this. Who cares? It's a small and transparent world. Nothing can be kept a secret for very long. So, we've always been very open about our company, it's just easier. As you all know, Emotiva is designing and building more and more of its gear here in the U.S.A. and that trend is going to accelerate, not slow down. This also why we have an open door policy for visitors. You are welcome to visit our company anytime, without appointment. You'll get to see where the products are made and meet the people who build and design them for you. I'm sure Peter would love to have to have you visit him too. Then you can make a truly informed purchase decision.

Anyway, you will buy what you like, from whomever you like. You are the judges of who makes the best mouse trap. Come on out for a visit!! We'd love to show you around!

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

[teaman]

Good points Dan. Now is there any chance you can bring your building and contents up to Michigan? It would save me the drive.....lol!

[geebo]

Feb 7, 2017 17:00:54 GMT -5 teaman said:

Good points Dan. Now is there any chance you can bring your building and contents up to Michigan? It would save me the drive.....lol!

I think it's doing just fine right here in middle Tennessee.