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Post by rbk123 on Jan 24, 2017 12:20:52 GMT -5
Please, it's not fixed on the XMC-1. It still functions worse than entry level receivers. Why expect anything different for the MC700? Either you live with this Emotiva quirk or return.  One thing I'll also add, which I'm sure is playing into Avalon's thought process, is Emo's "soon", is usually not in a sub-month (30 day) timeframe... |
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Post by cwt on Jan 24, 2017 12:32:59 GMT -5
Please, it's not fixed on the XMC-1. It still functions worse than entry level receivers. Why expect anything different for the MC700? Either you live with this Emotiva quirk or return. -tm Didn't think I said it was fixed ? ; some are more sensitive to it than others . My umc200 was exemplary but then I don't run a htpc as they tend to have hdmi issues with the plethora of playback apps out there .. Curious your so certain of a certain outcome when the 700 uses cirrus logic dsp and the XMC uses TI . The "no audio'" sounds like another reason to tweak the hdmi sync ; |
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Post by millst on Jan 24, 2017 12:54:40 GMT -5
Those who fail history are doomed to repeat it. It is problematic in the UMC-200, Fusion, and XMC-1. Emotiva continues to say the best they can do is a trade off between muting too much and not muting enough. No rational reason to expect this product to be different.
If it's a deal-breaker then best to return now. For most, it's not. Many don't even experience it as it's dependent on input source and system usage. I rarely experience it on my XMC-1 after moving from an Apple TV to an NVidia Shield.
-tm
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 24, 2017 13:07:53 GMT -5
Those who fail history are doomed to repeat it. It is problematic in the UMC-200, Fusion, and XMC-1. Emotiva continues to say the best they can do is a trade off between muting too much and not muting enough. No rational reason to expect this product to be different. If it's a deal-breaker then best to return now. For most, it's not. Many don't even experience it as it's dependent on input source and system usage. I rarely experience it on my XMC-1 after moving from an Apple TV to an NVidia Shield. -tm I don't experience it at all on my XMC-1. No problems with Apple TV, Sony DVP-S9000ES, Oppo BDP-103, Squeezebox Duet, and Emotiva ERC-1. My ERC-1 when first bought had an issue with the first second of music being cut off, but that was solved in the ERC-1 with a firmware update. I agree though that if it really bothers you, look elsewhere especially if you are concerned about the return window. Someone can pick up a returned/refurbished MC700 at a discount. |
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Post by hilodb1 on Jan 24, 2017 16:46:55 GMT -5
I'm very new to the Emotiva world and A/V in general. But this is quite disheartening to see these issues with this product. My MC 700 is slated to arrive tomorrow and I'm not even sure if I should unpack it and hook it up. I'm hoping Emotiva will be issuing firmware updates soon to hopefully correct some of these issues.
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Post by jolaca on Jan 24, 2017 17:07:43 GMT -5
Just to show a different opinion (though of course I respect all others) ...that's not a problem at all for me. When playing my lists through sonos, i.e. from spotify or even from my lossless music library I can always use the option crossfade ON and thus don't have this kind of issues. Moreover, knowing that Emotiva can additionally tweak these ms will surely improve the issue.
Thus, I'm eager to receive my MC700!! ;-))
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Post by gr8erimage on Jan 24, 2017 17:17:24 GMT -5
I'm very new to the Emotiva world and A/V in general. But this is quite disheartening to see these issues with this product. My MC 700 is slated to arrive tomorrow and I'm not even sure if I should unpack it and hook it up. I'm hoping Emotiva will be issuing firmware updates soon to hopefully correct some of these issues. One of the new features of the MC700 is the ability to update the firmware over USB. They wouldn't have spent the time developing this new feature unless they planned on it being useful.. My overall experience with my MC700 has been positive. Sure, I've experienced a few minor issues, but nothing that keeps me from being able to enjoy a full audio/video experience. I got to be one of the first to own the MC700 and received a 17% discount for beta testing. |
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Post by doc1963 on Jan 24, 2017 17:36:13 GMT -5
I'm very new to the Emotiva world and A/V in general. But this is quite disheartening to see these issues with this product. My MC 700 is slated to arrive tomorrow and I'm not even sure if I should unpack it and hook it up. I'm hoping Emotiva will be issuing firmware updates soon to hopefully correct some of these issues. Your concerns are understandable, but, myself being a long time Emotiva customer, I wouldn't worry too much about it. They will get these issues addressed. FWIW, some of these things that you're reading here may not even apply to "your" particular setup or "your" particular needs at this particular time. Some things obviously will (i.e.: input naming) for now. One thing that I have learned over the many years that I've been involved with A/V gear (especially over the last several years) is that NO product of this nature is "perfect" on launch day. Sometimes several "updates" are required to evacuate all of the bugs and fine tune the firmware to achieve a happy medium for all end users. You will get there. If I were you, I would open it, hook it up and enjoy it. See what issues "you" might encounter and go from there. Obviously, there are shortcomings that can never be overcome, no OSD over 4K or DSP mute timing for example, but then again, how are these going to affect your enjoyment of this product in the bigger scheme of things(?). You won't know unless you kick the tires... Hope this helps...  |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jan 24, 2017 18:18:47 GMT -5
I'm very new to the Emotiva world and A/V in general. But this is quite disheartening to see these issues with this product. My MC 700 is slated to arrive tomorrow and I'm not even sure if I should unpack it and hook it up. I'm hoping Emotiva will be issuing firmware updates soon to hopefully correct some of these issues. Hook it up, see what you think on the intro mute issue. I have the UMC-1, the XMC-1, and the DC-1 (and other Emo gear unrelated to the topic). I do not have the issue with files ripped to FLAC and replayed by JRiver, with CD's I've played via an Oppo 105/a Denon DVD player/an Emotiva ERC-2, and with anything sourced via Sonos. And, I have used the internal DAC's of the UMC-1 and XMC-1 as well as external DAC's. I have never had the issue, and I have listened for it. As for the other issues, Emotiva will fairly quickly fix all it can with FW fixes. For things out of their control, it is not Emotiva's fault or control to fix. Net, try it and see for yourself. Mark |
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Post by sydhaynes on Jan 24, 2017 18:46:31 GMT -5
I'm very new to the Emotiva world and A/V in general. But this is quite disheartening to see these issues with this product. My MC 700 is slated to arrive tomorrow and I'm not even sure if I should unpack it and hook it up. I'm hoping Emotiva will be issuing firmware updates soon to hopefully correct some of these issues. First time Emotiva owner here as well. I felt the very same way and was becoming quite depressed as I read about the issues others were posting prior to my MC-700 being delivered. I even considered returning it before it was even opened. Thank God I opened it and set it up! It's amazing even with the quirks it has (which I'm sure will get better with each update). I am using it as a 2.1 system without 4K display right now so my issues are limited compared to others. My surround speakers have been installed and my center channel speaker arrives tomorrow so I'm sure it will be even more impressive in 5.1. I'll not even consider sending my unit back, in fact I haven't smiled this much in years (just ask my wife). -Syd |
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Post by hilodb1 on Jan 24, 2017 18:47:35 GMT -5
Good to hear! I will see how it goes when it gets here. Too bad I wont get to spend a lot of time with it in the upcoming week as I'm going to be out of town.
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Post by Percussionista on Jan 24, 2017 19:19:12 GMT -5
Don't know if this will help but I'm running a Windows 10 Intel i7 HTPC with a Nvidia GTX 960 video card outputting a 4K resolution (3840 x 2160 native) into the HDMI 1 input of the MC-700 and out the HDMI 1 output to a Vizio TV, works perfect.... Yes, this indeed works. Inputs 1-3 will pass a 4K signal. My problem is with Inputs 4-6. The manual says "non-commercial 4K" may be passed through the 4-6 inputs. My recent test as posted earlier today indicates that only the boot-up screens get displayed, then as soon as it switches to 4K to bring up the login splash-screen, the TV no longer receives the signal. |
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Post by Percussionista on Jan 24, 2017 19:31:18 GMT -5
SOME ANSWERS
We have discovered a few trivial issues with the MC-700.
...
Unfortunately, 4k is a relatively new technology, and there are many issues with OTHER PRODUCTS.
The 4k standard is complicated, and was "pushed out" rather quickly, and a lot of 4k products don't work 100% as they should according to the standard.
For example, HTPCs are notorious for adopting new technology first, but not getting it quite right for some time afterwards.
I appreciate Emotiva engineering their stuff all the while the HDMI sandpit keeps shifting underneath. Perhaps you might be able to answer the 4K issue I seem to have with the MC700's inputs 4-6. The manual says they will pass "non-commercial 4K" through inputs 4-6. I am unable to pass a PC's 4K output through those inputs. The boot-up screens work fine, but as soon as the PC switches to 4K-out for the login splash-screen, the TV says no input. I will check Nvidia's forums as you suggest, but I'd like a definitive opinion on whether a PC at 4K is considered "non-commercial 4K". Thanks. |
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Post by doc1963 on Jan 24, 2017 20:11:56 GMT -5
SOME ANSWERS
We have discovered a few trivial issues with the MC-700.
...
Unfortunately, 4k is a relatively new technology, and there are many issues with OTHER PRODUCTS.
The 4k standard is complicated, and was "pushed out" rather quickly, and a lot of 4k products don't work 100% as they should according to the standard.
For example, HTPCs are notorious for adopting new technology first, but not getting it quite right for some time afterwards.
I appreciate Emotiva engineering their stuff all the while the HDMI sandpit keeps shifting underneath. Perhaps you might be able to answer the 4K issue I seem to have with the MC700's inputs 4-6. The manual says they will pass "non-commercial 4K" through inputs 4-6. I am unable to pass a PC's 4K output through those inputs. The boot-up screens work fine, but as soon as the PC switches to 4K-out for the login splash-screen, the TV says no input. I will check Nvidia's forums as you suggest, but I'd like a definitive opinion on whether a PC at 4K is considered "non-commercial 4K". Thanks. Yours is indeed an interesting scenario. What is meant by "non-commercial 4K" is content that does not require an HDMI 2.0 handshake and/or an HDCP 2.2 encryption key (basically, any 4K content HDMI 1.4b could pass). I don't see why a Windows sign in screen would have such requests. Maybe your video card (or some background extension) is making a request that's not being satisfactory addressed and the initial handshake is being dropped. Perhaps booting in "safe mode" could help rule out an extension. |
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Post by bryston on Jan 24, 2017 22:56:49 GMT -5
Has anyone had the opportunity to try the basic HDMI-CEC features on the MC-700 such as turning on your TV when a video source is selected?
Thanks
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Post by Percussionista on Jan 24, 2017 23:43:16 GMT -5
Yours is indeed an interesting scenario. What is meant by "non-commercial 4K" is content that does not require an HDMI 2.0 handshake and/or an HDCP 2.2 encryption key (basically, any 4K content HDMI 1.4b could pass). I don't see why a Windows sign in screen would have such requests. Well, the GPU (EVGA 970) is HDMI 2.0 but not HDCP 2.2. TVs (or more precisely, their content providers boxes) switch between different modes, usually at commercial breaks, as they may be authored under different resolutions and audio, and clearly an HDMI handshake is happening at these junctures. Perhaps the same thing is happening during PC boot. At first it's a low-level resolution, which does not require either HDMI/HDCP participation even, but when it switches (as if from a low-res commercial to a hi-res TV program) to the 4K login-screen, the HDMI/HDCP handshake requirements fall into play. So, I guess this means, as per your definition, that we can't pass a 4K signal that is HDMI 2.0 (as in my case) through the MC700's HDMI-4-6-ins, as it must repress anything more than (say) HDMI 1.4b, etc. Repress might not be the right word, perhaps they aren't designed to handle the requirements of HDMI 2.0 or higher. I'm also quite sure that the 970 is sending at 60 hz which is above HDMI 1.4b. Until HDMI 2.0 was supported, you couldn't get better than 30 hz signals over HDMI. I definitely don't want to tell the 970 to run at 30 hz just to be able to use HDMI-4-6-in (in order to get OSD overlay)! It seems like the best use of the HDMI-4-6-ins is for plain HD, which would cover regular blu-ray players, cable TV, etc. Any somewhat older devices that pass 4K at 30Hz would also be usable. On the other foot, if anybody has managed to successfully run a PC at 4K and 60hz through MC700's inputs 4-6 I want to hear about it! Except for the lack of OSD overlay, I'm running just fine through the inputs 1-3. |
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Post by avalon on Jan 25, 2017 0:37:07 GMT -5
Given the proposed solution to PCM sync delay appears to be adding a moment of silence to a file to compensate for the processor, I believe I have my answer to #2. Not waiting for the firmware update Avalon ? Cant say what will be addressed by the firmware update but emo have in the past changed the muting timing for the hdmi [ maybe the sp/dif as well ?]for the xmc1 iirc . As has been said its a trade off with pops and clicks from different codec switching as well so can understand if you want better sync . Is it any better if you skip back to the start of the track after the start ? Nope. I fell for that with the UMC-200. Not only was the problem never fixed, it cant be fixed. From my research I'm convinced the MC700 uses the exact same Cirrus chipset as the UMC-200. It has the exact same features (despite contrary information provided here by Emotiva) and characteristics: no rear surround 11 band EQ, only 3 band sub EQ, and the same sync delay. This post is from another forum and another user back in 2014 that describes exactly my problem with the MC700: I am a two-channel guy, and when I first used it, my digital source was a Squeezebox Touch via S/PDIF. The S/PDIF input of the UMC-200 is very problematic. It cuts off the beginning of songs that have a small amount of leading silence, and when playing playlists having a mixture of 16/44.1 and 24/96 material ripped from DVD-A, there are major audible hiccups when it changes resolution/bit rate. The combination of Squeezebox Touch and Denon 3312CI was flawless with S/PDIF.
If you need a pre/pro that works properly with S/PDIF, consider something else. HDMI has been fine for me so far though. I am using firmware 1.52.02.47.
from what I've been able to find on other forums, the same sync problem plagues several other brands that use this OEM platform including the Outlaw 975. So no, the product does not meet my expectations of performance and seems to have inherited the all the same DSP limitations that drove me to sell the UMC200. Im returning the MC700 as soon as I get off the road with work. Mabe in a year I'll check back to see what progress has been made. But, based on my journey with the UMC-200, my money is on the slow sync never getting fixed, and the rear surround EQ and 11 band sub EQs never being added to the MC700. |
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Post by millst on Jan 25, 2017 1:07:17 GMT -5
Yeah, I wouldn't count on any quick firmware fixes. The digital out on my XMC-1 was broken for 6-12 months while I awaited one of those firmware fixes. Or maybe people think that is quick...
At least Emotiva gives 30 days to try it out. That should be enough time for anyone to determine how it works in his/her system.
-tm
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Post by cwt on Jan 25, 2017 1:08:55 GMT -5
Nope. I fell for that with the UMC-200. Not only was the problem never fixed, it cant be fixed. From my research I'm convinced the MC700 uses the exact same Cirrus chipset as the UMC-200. It has the exact same features (despite contrary information provided here by Emotiva) and characteristics: no rear surround 11 band EQ, only 3 band sub EQ, and the same sync delay. from what I've been able to find on other forums, the same sync problem plagues several other brands that use this OEM platform including the Outlaw 975. So no, the product does not meet my expectations of performance and seems to have inherited the all the same DSP limitations that drove me to sell the UMC200. Im returning the MC700 as soon as I get off the road with work. Understand mate ; we all have different thresholds for this [ once spotted never missed ]I once owned a cary 11a with the same cirrus logic chipset [cs 49700] and it was eventually trimmed back .. so many problems so many firmware upgrades . At one stage some reported its muting would let through white noise that didn't help tweeters much . Emo is ace in comparison |
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Post by harlan on Jan 25, 2017 8:02:23 GMT -5
Yeah, I wouldn't count on any quick p firmware fixes. The digital out on my XMC-1 was broken for 6-12 months while I awaited one of those firmware fixes. Or maybe people think that is quick... At least Emotiva gives 30 days to try it out. That should be enough time for anyone to determine how it works in his/her system. -tm In this case they need to better define the 30 days. It seems the warranty says from date of order. For me it took over 6 weeks to receive it. They really need to publically clarify this. |
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