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Post by leonski on May 17, 2017 19:09:27 GMT -5
Met Bruno once at a show where the nCore1200 was 'fresh'.
Great guy and we DIDN'T talk amps or stereo.
Turns out he has a taste for Spicy / Hot food. No time to get him down to my Casa for Dinner, where my
Latina wife would have fixed him right up!
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Post by emoticon on Dec 21, 2017 14:20:26 GMT -5
I do have to say that after reading up on Bruno Putzeys' Mola Mola Kaluga monoblocks based on his Hypex NC1200 designs that I'm "intrigued" ... but more than a little "astonished" by the $16k/pair price. That's a least a factor of 5-6 more than I could conceive spending. (sigh) I'll definitely have be interested in hearing reviews on how the new XPA Gen3 Double-Wides stack up. Casey I have the XPA-2 Gen3 and placed an order today for 2 NC400 kits (I have Mark/klinemj to thank or blame for this, depending on how it goes  ). How long do they take to get across the pond? Lets see which amp's mating call the ATCs answer to. |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 21, 2017 14:28:45 GMT -5
The Hypex NC400 Monoblock Kits should ship fairly quickly if they're in stock. They showed up about two weeks after I ordered them I think. One note: you'll have to pay an Import Customs Tax to UPS or whomever delivers them to you. I think it was abut $68 for me in California for two of them. It's a pure assembly process putting them together — there's no soldering! A few pieces of advice on the assembly: - There's a green Case Ground Wire which gets screwed down to the case right underneath the IEC Power Plug Receptacle. Screw that down first before inserting the IEC Power Plug Receptacle because it's a *bleep* to get screwed down afterwards.
- Make sure you really twist the wires. I've seen multiple reports that not doing this can yield high-frequency noise problems.
- Consider buying some Heat Sink Paste to put between the Case and the two Power Modules which are mounted onto the bottom of the case. The amplifier doesn't run hot at all, but why not?
Casey |
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Post by emoticon on Dec 21, 2017 15:54:31 GMT -5
Thank you, Casey for your suggestions! With the holidays upon us, I don't expect to see the kits for a few weeks.
Is a computer CPU thermal paste a good option? I think its a good idea to do this now as you suggested. It can get hot here in summer and the amps, if placed near other equipment, can start to cook a little I would think.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 21, 2017 16:26:38 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd just use Heat Sink Compound. They really don't run hot at all, but the two modules are mounted flat to the interior of the Aluminum Case, so it couldn't hurt.
Casey
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Post by emoticon on Dec 27, 2017 0:31:59 GMT -5
Has anyone tried any amps built using ICEPower modules? I've been staring at this for a bit now - www.ghentaudio.com/amp/index.html. $1099 for a 500w (in BLT mode) dual mono-block is not too bad if its comparable in sound to the NC400 monos. I've googled around to see what people say about the differences between ICEpower and NCore and a lot of folks seem to think the ICEPower has a more polite sound. NCore modules apparently measure better and handle load variations better. |
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Post by emoticon on Jan 15, 2018 13:12:59 GMT -5
The NCore amps have replaced my Emo XPA-2. I find the NCore more transparent and the amps have no issues driving my ATCs. I never liked Class D amps but I think with Hypex, they have come of age. Note that the total cost of the monoblocks was about $700 USD more than the Emo, plus the time to assemble the kit (I had some serious frustration with the speaker connector screws being too tight and getting stripped, I then misplaced a fuse which was stupid on my part, but otherwise things were smooth). For me, given the living room setup, the NCore amps are more visually acceptable. I think the Emo XPA is darn good value for money if space/aesthetics is not a concern; it also has more features like RCA inputs and 12v trigger.
Also note that pre-assembled branded amps that are built on NCore modules are nowhere near the Emo's price range. The NAD M22 for instance, retails for $3000 USD. ATI makes some good ones, but their chassis is as large and heavy as some class A/B amps because they use a linear power supply.
Trade-offs.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Jan 15, 2018 13:20:29 GMT -5
I think that KeithL at one point said that Emotiva was looking into using some Bang & Olufsen ICE Power modules for Class D Amplifier products. It would be interesting to see them also grab some Hypex NC500 (the OEM equivalent of the NC400 "DIY" kits) and Pascal amplifier modules for comparison. I've never seen a manufacturer report on the pros and cons of these and what drove their decision to use one over the other. Casey |
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Post by pedrocols on Jan 15, 2018 14:12:53 GMT -5
I would only buy a class D amp when it looks like this...   |
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Post by emoticon on Jan 15, 2018 14:41:52 GMT -5
I would only buy a class D amp when it looks like this... Only by looking at it, I can tell the sound will be out"standing"  |
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,273
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Post by KeithL on Jan 15, 2018 15:29:14 GMT -5
In fact we are also considering the Pascal modules for some future products. In the past, many Class D amplifiers modules simply didn't sound very good, or only sounded good over a relatively narrow range of load conditions. However, there are currently several good-sounding ones out there to choose from. The main down-side to using Class D modules is the cost (the folks who design the modules are doing a lot of the work for you, and expect to be compensated accordingly). The other issue is lack of product differentiation. To put it bluntly, if everyone used the same iCE modules, then what reason would you have to buy one product over another? If you want to buy the cheapest one, then the manufacturers are all competing to cut one more corner and lower the price of the complete unit a few bucks - which is no fun. And, if you want to buy the one with the prettiest metalwork, or the most bells and whistles, then we've become interior designers and not audio engineers. (We've given the engineering all over to the guys who designed the modules.) Both of those situations have obvious drawbacks for the equipment manufacturer. (And nobody likes those boutique companies who wrap fancy metalwork around the same module and charge five times as much, right?) I think that KeithL at one point said that Emotiva was looking into using some Bang & Olufsen ICE Power modules for Class D Amplifier products. It would be interesting to see them also grab some Hypex NC500 (the OEM equivalent of the NC400 "DIY" kits) and Pascal amplifier modules for comparison. I've never seen a manufacturer report on the pros and cons of these and what drove their decision to use one over the other. Casey |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Jan 15, 2018 15:54:38 GMT -5
Oh, there's definitely a question of differentiation KeithL. And I don't know how to solve that: the other engineers like Hypex/Bruno do deserve compensation for their innovation. I guess for me, I'd trust Emotiva doing it more that some of these boutique companies who's sale brochures smack too much of snake oil. I've built up a trust in your "Sensible Engineering" and am happy to pay you for the expertise you bring to the table. Casey |
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Post by mgbpuff on Jan 15, 2018 16:11:30 GMT -5
Putsey wins the alligator design trophy! He should be proud of this - ITHINK! |
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Post by emoticon on Jan 15, 2018 16:22:40 GMT -5
"(And nobody likes those boutique companies who wrap fancy metalwork around the same module and charge five times as much, right?)"
Unfortunately, I think a lot of so-called audiophiles don't give a rodent's bottom what's inside the box. Marketing does an amazing job with them. Brand loyalty is also a huge factor.
What I am trying to say is that if Emotiva builds an amp with Hypex modules and another boutique manufacturer builds the same exact amp with more shiny jewelry around it at 4 times the cost, people like me will buy the Emotiva and some other people will pay 4 times more. It's no different than what's already happening.
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Post by MusicHead on Jan 15, 2018 16:33:21 GMT -5
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Post by MusicHead on Jan 15, 2018 16:41:13 GMT -5
"(And nobody likes those boutique companies who wrap fancy metalwork around the same module and charge five times as much, right?)" Unfortunately, I think a lot of so-called audiophiles don't give a rodent's bottom what's inside the box. Marketing does an amazing job with them. Brand loyalty is also a huge factor. What I am trying to say is that if Emotiva builds an amp with Hypex modules and another boutique manufacturer builds the same exact amp with more shiny jewelry around it at 4 times the cost, people like me will buy the Emotiva and some other people will pay 4 times more. It's no different than what's already happening. I agree. I doubt the boutique brands are getting special output transistors 😁. And now in the Digital Era, everybody uses the same ADC/DAC in their prepro from the usual suspects: TI, Cirrus, Analog Devices, AKM, etc. Same goes for speakers. In many cases the drivers are the same, just combined with different crossovers and cabinets to make "unique" products, often at wildly different price points. |
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Post by pedrocols on Jan 15, 2018 16:52:11 GMT -5
"(And nobody likes those boutique companies who wrap fancy metalwork around the same module and charge five times as much, right?)" Unfortunately, I think a lot of so-called audiophiles don't give a rodent's bottom what's inside the box. Marketing does an amazing job with them. Brand loyalty is also a huge factor. What I am trying to say is that if Emotiva builds an amp with Hypex modules and another boutique manufacturer builds the same exact amp with more shiny jewelry around it at 4 times the cost, people like me will buy the Emotiva and some other people will pay 4 times more. It's no different than what's already happening. I agree. I doubt the boutique brands are getting special output transistors 😁. And now in the Digital Era, everybody uses the same ADC/DAC in their prepro from the usual suspects: TI, Cirrus, Analog Devices, AKM, etc. Same goes for speakers. In many cases the drivers are the same, just combined with different crossovers and cabinets to make "unique" products, often at wildly different price points. But if it cost 10 times more it should be better...  |
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Post by copperpipe on Jan 15, 2018 16:56:17 GMT -5
I would only buy a class D amp when it looks like this... That amp looks quite happy to see you... |
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Post by copperpipe on Jan 15, 2018 16:59:05 GMT -5
Putsey wins the alligator design trophy! He should be proud of this - ITHINK!Your analogy is incorrect because it assumes "all else being equal". I'm not sure on the sound, but class d can cost less, use less electricity, be more powerful, and weigh less, all at the same time. I'm sure there are other advantages as well. |
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Post by mgbpuff on Jan 15, 2018 17:24:32 GMT -5
Putsey wins the alligator design trophy! He should be proud of this - ITHINK!Your analogy is incorrect because it assumes "all else being equal". I'm not sure on the sound, but class d can cost less, use less electricity, be more powerful, and weigh less, all at the same time. I'm sure there are other advantages as well. I bet you have an ugly dog! |
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). How long do they take to get across the pond?
