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Post by bluemeanies on May 16, 2017 17:43:22 GMT -5
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Post by monkumonku on May 17, 2017 9:56:59 GMT -5
Bluemeanies - I took your quote from the Panagea thread so as not to go off topic over there: I started a thread about this article, but I felt the need to post it here. lehighvalleyjeff read it and I believe he as I felt it was a truth that we ALL become immune to with this hobby. PLEASE do not take this article as a shoot out between people who upgrade and people who are content. There is nothing wrong with either way of thinking. I myself love my system...BUT I still think about an UPGRADE! ....when I get an itch. Lately I have been thinking of acoustics, turntable and now POWER CORDS thanks to this thread....haha In reality this article sums it up with the itch to upgrade. My take away is this...yes upgrades at times are unnecessary and we who are in the box don't realize how immaterial that upgrade really unnecessary. Here comes the proverbial BUT! but money is relative and it is fun to spend. SO WHY NOT! Me...I don't have money so the upgrades are on the back burner until I find PT employment. Then all hell will break loose! 😂 How fortunate, blessed, whatever label you want to use are we, all here experienceing the emotional roller coaster of the hobby that keeps on giving back to us. Hope you guys enjoy the read. blue www.ultraaudio.com/index.php/features-menu/opinion-menu/725-the-myth-of-continual-improvementMy upgraditis began back in early 2009 when I purchased an XPA-3. Since that time I have purchased (and sold) a whole bunch of stuff in my quest for audio nirvana. I am thankful to have had the means to participate in this "hobby" and have enjoyed it but at this point I would say I get burned out from reading how people are never satisfied and endlessly fret over how many angels can dance on a pin head. These days I don't pay that much attention to the technical discussions but I like hanging around the Lounge because overall it's a good group of people. I am very happy with my present system as it suits my ears and is baby-bear right for my room. I'm sure there are improvements that can be made but when I sit down and listen, it sounds great and I tell myself no need for any more upgrades. Being that I'm planning on retiring later this year as well as buying a new car right before that (so as not to put miles on it doing the work commute), my budget has no room for any audio gear anyway so that's another reason to be thankful for what I currently have. It's a hobby for which there is no end and marketing plays a big role in creating doubt in people's minds so they keep seeking the end of the rainbow. No different with cars - I look at the trim levels and the higher ones initially appear enticing but then I think, am I ever going to really use any of that stuff? Cars are like AVR's - every year new models come out with more and more useless features and the thing is, the more features you have, the more things that break. It's more and more technology designed to make your world "easier" and take all the thinking out of whatever it is you're doing. It's turning us all into Eloi.  Anyway.. I'm looking forward to simple enjoyment of retired life. If anyone has seen the Netflix series "Samurai Gourmet" that's what I'm talking about. Maybe I'll replace my current avatar with a picture of Takeshi Kasumi (the guy in the series).  |
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Post by jackfish on May 17, 2017 10:57:41 GMT -5
I can relate to the idea there is a myth surrounding the pursuit of continual improvement. But it is no myth that there are large increments of audio improvement when enough money is thrown at it. Hundreds of thousands of dollars can be spent before reaching improvement increments of diminishing returns. For most of us this reinforces considerations of affordability, value and effectiveness in audio pursuits.
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Post by 405x5 on May 17, 2017 11:17:45 GMT -5
" I get burned out from reading how people are never satisfied and endlessly fret over how many angels can dance on a pin head. These days I don't pay that much attention to the technical discussions but I like hanging around the Lounge because overall it's a good group of people." I agree and this is a very good forum with a nice bunch of "regulars" to boot. It's well ordered, and moderated just enough not go too far over the top. "I am very happy with my present system as it suits my ears and is baby-bear right for my room. I'm sure there are improvements that can be made but when I sit down and listen, it sounds great and I tell myself no need for any more upgrades. Being that I'm planning on retiring later this year as well as buying a new car right before that (so as not to put miles on it doing the work commute), my budget has no room for any audio gear anyway so that's another reason to be thankful for what I currently have. " I'm also pleased with my setup, but I am a heavy user, so I simply keep up with things, and decide what has to go next. I'm not sure "upgrades" is the right characterization for my way of doing things. The fundamentals are well in place, but nothing lasts forever. My 5 channel Sunfire amplifier, has been in service since 2001, so I've been keeping up in case I decide to replace instead of service (one example). My last big project was having 6 woofers rebuilt.....4 of which are in regular service and 2 backup spares......Important stuff when your speakers are vintage like mine. I think upgrades more when referring to AV processing, and dealing with all those available audio options for processing, playback, storage,etc. Bill |
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Post by charlieeco on May 17, 2017 11:41:28 GMT -5
I truly believe there are some Up grades really necessary, those related to power, or certain new digital technologies that will allow you enjoy some digital formats,but when you are set to the level of sound you like you should stop the up grade and forget the quest of audio nirvanas and some snake oils and simply enjoy your music, This is what is all about.
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Post by garbulky on May 17, 2017 12:12:56 GMT -5
Yes an upgrade would be beneficial for me. However, I have to have some common sense. At what point is the reproduction realistic and to my satisfaction and at what point does it stop making sense financially? To me, that's one more big expensive upgrade before I reach my end point. After that, I am leaving it alone. All my upgrades get a whole lot of mileage before I change, and this one will be no exception.
After the upgrade, my system will be close to about 8-10 k in value for a two channel system.
Right now, I can see that stereo subs and more room treatment could help my setup the most in terms of value.
However my end game setup is going to include the best front end I can afford as well. (schiit ygdrassil and Audio gd HE-1 preamp).
I may someday upgrade to surround sound but it's not a pressing concern for me at this time. The formats change rapidly including HDMI versions and so do the number of speakers making the costly upgrades not worth a long term investment - at this point.
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Post by 405x5 on May 17, 2017 12:32:27 GMT -5
I truly believe there are some Up grades really necessary, those related to power, or certain new digital technologies that will allow you enjoy some digital formats,but when you are set to the level of sound you like you should stop the up grade and forget the quest of audio nirvanas and some snake oils and simply enjoy your music, This is what is all about. You said it......getting back to the music is what it's all about (for me anyway). That makes it even more of a drag when the inevitable looms and you've got to stop the music and do what's necessary to get back. I seem to go around 10 years on average before something significant occurs that requires a substantial change. That happened for myself in 2014 with the XMC-1. I bought the thing kicking and screaming (almost) because the old preamp was not only absent all HDMI, but also developed a problem that had me occasionally banging the side of it like an old television 📺 set. Needless to say I was not very happy about that. Glad that's now behind me......anyone who waited for the release of the XMC knows how tough that was. Bill |
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Post by mgbpuff on May 17, 2017 12:55:15 GMT -5
Bah! Why waste your time talking about such a ridiculous subject. Time moves forward, things change, man wants to keep up. If not, we'd still be listening to "Mary had a little lamb" on an Edison cylinder!
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hemster
Global Moderator 
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,952
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Post by hemster on May 17, 2017 13:04:25 GMT -5
It's all about wanting the things I can't afford. Other that that, I really, really enjoy music and movies on my rig. I'm skipping this whole 3D and 4K fad and waiting for holographic movies. The ones where I can be a part of the movie and play a character. Even change the plot or ending if I want. Don't laugh. It'll happen one day. You heard it here first. Oh man, to be playing a part in Caligula! |
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Post by 405x5 on May 17, 2017 13:11:27 GMT -5
By the time that happens, people will be begging me to keep my clothes ON. Bill  |
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Post by novisnick on May 17, 2017 13:49:54 GMT -5
I JUST upgraded, in my mind!,,,,,,,,in the future,,,,,,,,in my dream! It sounds so good!  |
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Post by brubacca on May 17, 2017 14:16:41 GMT -5
I have made so many upgrades only to realize in the end that my source was lacking. I'd love to go back to my USP-1/UPA-200 and see how they sound with my current sources.
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Post by jmilton on May 17, 2017 14:33:07 GMT -5
By the time that happens, people will be begging me to keep my clothes ON. Bill ....we're begging you NOW. |
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Post by jmasterj on May 17, 2017 15:51:38 GMT -5
This was an interesting read. I started building my current system in 2010, and I completed it in 2015 even though it's modest in every way, it suits me because it allows me to interchange components so every so often I simply switch out the speakers, or the amps and the sound changes. I've been content, so I decided that I would make one more purchase, one more pair of speakers would be it for me this lifetime. It's not like I really need them.
My original plan was to purchase a pair of Emotiva T-1's, then Eric Alexander decided to come out with some new speakers. I already own M-Lores and love them so I decided to wait until I could hear some and check reviews before making a final decision. My Emotiva buddy for life "snacker" has been very busy buying, selling, and trading I have however resisted the urge. Over the past two years I purchased nothing, nodda, zilch up until last month. Last month I decided to roll the tubes in my BADA DC-222 which still had the original upgraded tubes purchased with the unit back in 2010.
Once again modesty was used. $87.00 for a matched quad of 12AU7's that have a forward sounding, full-bodied low end coupled with a weighty dynamic midrange. They have me listening to my library especially music with strings, and horns. That was it for two years except for music that is. Then that darn "snacker" had to go and find some Vintage Polk Audio SDA-1's in great condition. A few weeks ago he told me he was going to pick them up and I told him to bring them over to my place first don't even take them home. He brought them by and we listened for a few hours, then loaded them up so he could take the home. They sure brought back some memories.
Snacker, and I have had several discussions about Polk Audio SDA speakers. I use to own a pair of SDA-2's back in the 1980's, and it was back then when snacker wanted to buy a pair but back then he didn't have the money. They are arguably the best speakers I've ever owned, and even today my brother in Chicago swears by them. We've talked on the phone countless times and no matter what equipment I tell him I have, he always says nothing can compare to those speakers I had back then. So when snacker told me he was originally supposed to purchase some SDA-2's before he brought the SDA-1's I told him I wanted the SDA-2's if the seller still had them and if they were in good condition like the ones he brought.
The new old pair of SDA-2's don't have a spot on them, not a mark, scratch, or ding, they look like they looked when they were made 33 years ago per the date stamped on the drivers. I had to replace two fuses, one high frequency driver on the right speaker which is already replaced, and one midwoofer driver on the left speaker, which will arrive Friday. They sound great even with the one driver out. I can't believe we found these amazing speakers, and that we both have a pair. Imagine my pride when I called my brother and told him about our SDA speakers. His response was you guys have to find him a pair of SDA-2's so okay. Do I really need to upgrade ? No but it sure is fun!
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Post by novisnick on May 18, 2017 14:18:47 GMT -5
Yes!,,,,,,,Yes!,,,,,,Yes!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Post by Gary Cook on May 18, 2017 19:27:10 GMT -5
The only upgrades that I ever feel that I "need" are processors, when they get too far out of date to tolerate, the rest are simply wants. Cheers Gary |
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Post by ac2011 on May 19, 2017 7:18:57 GMT -5
Intuitively, I think we all know that upgraditis is a "want" thing vs. a "need" thing. It certainly can be fun and satisfying, as long as you are staying within your means - putting yourself out financially doesn't make sense just to be able to listen to some music or TV. For me, I think I get the upgrade bug when I'm bored; I recognize that I go through times when I am really keen on upgrading some piece(s) of the system and I do a lot of research and just absolutely obsess over something, watching for a sale, hoping for a piece to come up on the used market, etc. But when I'm occupied with other things (like I just had a really busy couple of months at work), I kind of stop and say, "hey, I haven't thought about the system for a while" - but then maybe my upgraditis starts again The obsessive times have definitely caught me a couple of times, and I look back now and have a couple of pieces that I find I don't really use (eg. Buttkicker) that I have to wonder why I bought, whether I just haven't put the time in to figure it out, what else I could have done with that money, and whether I can sell it! The other thing I find with those obsessive times, however, is that I kind of get paralyzed - like I get information overload and can't actually make a decision to pull the trigger; this has happened to me numerous times in the past 1.5 years or so as I've explored upgrading my speakers. Being in Atlantic Canada, I don't really have the ability to listen to anything before buying (my local shop closed last year), so relying only on views of others online terrifies me to some extent. And given there also isn't much of a used market in my area, making the "wrong" decision is going to cost me dearly because I don't have much hope of re-selling something I don't like - especially without taking a big $$ bath. Getting back to the point of this thread, though, upgraditis is definitely more of a "want" process than a "need" process, unless something is truly broken. In the end, I think it's really part of our human nature to always want something "better" - if only because we perceive it to be better, without any real proof that it truly is better, or even if we really "needed" better in the first place! |
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Post by 405x5 on May 19, 2017 8:14:56 GMT -5
"Do you really need to upgrade?"
Yes
Didn't care much for that article.
I mean if you're serious about this sport then constant upgrading is a necessity indeed.
Putting the term "upgrade" in context, MAYBE we could be talking about a software or firmware upgrade.
No funds are involved necessarily, but the change in the system may be very significant.
Then again, when the bucks are involved and if you're talking surround sound as opposed to stereo listening, you're dead 💀 in the water unless you eventually break down for an updated processor.
Bill
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Post by vneal on May 19, 2017 8:51:07 GMT -5
Do you really need to upgrade? No
There are needs and there are wants
Upgrading is a want
I want
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Post by bluemeanies on May 19, 2017 8:52:06 GMT -5
405x5 Avatar
May 19, 2017 9:14:56 GMT -4 405x5 said:
"Do you really need to upgrade?"
Yes
Didn't care much for that article.
I mean if you're serious about this sport then constant upgrading is a necessity indeed.
Putting the term "upgrade" in context, MAYBE we could be talking about a software or firmware upgrade.
No funds are involved necessarily, but the change in the system may be very significant.
Then again, when the bucks are involved and if you're talking surround sound as opposed to stereo listening, you're dead 💀 in the water unless you eventually break down for an updated processor.
Bill
I don't think the article pertained to the fundamentals such as you mentioned, software and firmware upgrades. I believe it made a revealing view of how we in this hobby can be throwing money away with unecessary hardware such as a NEW processor, receiver or pre-amp, and also speakers.
I don't think there is anything wrong with upgrading if you are working to attain a GOAL. Sometimes that goal for some people takes longer to attain than it does for other people.
I don't think there is anything wrong with upgrading when it becomes a necessity.
Example: your receiver or pre amp no longer works and the cost out weighs the value of the unit.
However I do think DEPENDING ON YOUR FINANCIAL STATUS swinging the door open and close buying, selling repeatly the idea of music nirvana might pass by you without you giving notice.
I want to make it clear that I have no opposition to people who are able and LIKE changing their systems like their wardrobe. That is their right.
IMO most people are not in that category and my thoughts are that audio hobbyist should pay particular attention to what they want to attain (GOAL) before making a purchase.
At least that has been my experience of late.
Unfortunately I had ridden myself from some very nice speakers and receivers not knowing the value of what I had and not knowing how to use those tools properly.
My search for a music cornucopia of delight took years until I found someone who LISTENED to my needs and goals to what I wanted to attain musically...and it was not a so-called audio professional in a B&M store.
I hope this post does not seem argumentative,,,,that's not what I wanted to do.
blue
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