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Post by rockman85 on May 25, 2017 17:49:00 GMT -5
Let's put Andrew Robinson's review (and the rest of the rah-rah-pro-amps crowd's reviews) to rest. You CAN hear the difference between Crown XLS series amps and Emotiva's amps. I'd guess (based on both personal experience and that of my audio amigos) that 90% plus of listeners would prefer the sound of the Emotivas. The remaining 10% either don't care or can't hear the differences. And power to you - if you're in the 10% that thinks that pro class D amps are peachy, then go forth and be happy. I could agree that maybe for surround sound use, the Crown amps might be adequate, but for stereo listening, alas - no. The Crown XLS series sounds glassy, and has a midrange/treble that lacks detail compared to the Emotiva amplifiers. That's what I hear, and it was true of every single Crown XLS model that I've owned (and they were cheap enough that I've owned most all of the models). I kept rereading Mr. Robinson's review & trying to convince myself that this cheap Crown amp was what Andrew claimed. But in the end, I just had to admit - Andrew was wrong. Plain and simple - the Crown XLS series amps are just not that good. As a bridged amplifier for subs, yes, the Crowns might be OK. As a full-range stereo amp, they are not OK. I've also tried conventional AB-class Crown amps including the PSA-2, DC-300A, and PS-400. They weren't bad, but again, they still weren't as good as ANY of the Emotiva amps. And it's saying something that the least expensive of the Emotivas can sound better than the most expensive of the Crowns. Crown amps are built for physical durability, electrical fault-tolerance, and power per dollar - not for sound quality. From what I've heard, the other "pro-amps," are the same or worse. So I've learned my lesson - No "pro" amps for me, thanks. YMMV Boomzilla Guess Im just going to have to bite the bullet, buy one and compare... |
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Post by novisnick on May 25, 2017 17:53:44 GMT -5
Let's put Andrew Robinson's review (and the rest of the rah-rah-pro-amps crowd's reviews) to rest. You CAN hear the difference between Crown XLS series amps and Emotiva's amps. I'd guess (based on both personal experience and that of my audio amigos) that 90% plus of listeners would prefer the sound of the Emotivas. The remaining 10% either don't care or can't hear the differences. And power to you - if you're in the 10% that thinks that pro class D amps are peachy, then go forth and be happy. I could agree that maybe for surround sound use, the Crown amps might be adequate, but for stereo listening, alas - no. The Crown XLS series sounds glassy, and has a midrange/treble that lacks detail compared to the Emotiva amplifiers. That's what I hear, and it was true of every single Crown XLS model that I've owned (and they were cheap enough that I've owned most all of the models). I kept rereading Mr. Robinson's review & trying to convince myself that this cheap Crown amp was what Andrew claimed. But in the end, I just had to admit - Andrew was wrong. Plain and simple - the Crown XLS series amps are just not that good. As a bridged amplifier for subs, yes, the Crowns might be OK. As a full-range stereo amp, they are not OK. I've also tried conventional AB-class Crown amps including the PSA-2, DC-300A, and PS-400. They weren't bad, but again, they still weren't as good as ANY of the Emotiva amps. And it's saying something that the least expensive of the Emotivas can sound better than the most expensive of the Crowns. Crown amps are built for physical durability, electrical fault-tolerance, and power per dollar - not for sound quality. From what I've heard, the other "pro-amps," are the same or worse. So I've learned my lesson - No "pro" amps for me, thanks. YMMV Boomzilla Guess Im just going to have to bite the bullet, buy one and compare... Save your time and 💰 .  |
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Post by novisnick on May 25, 2017 17:56:49 GMT -5
Well I switched from a PA 7-350 to my current PA amps because they sound better for me - go figure... Don´t know the crown personally - just don´t generalize! I looked very hard at the Sherbourn PA 7-350 offering and with council from a friend north of the border we decided that the sound floor was too high for my taste. I ended up with a great pair of amps,,,,,,, XPR-1's, OH! What a great decision that was. |
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Post by Gary Cook on May 25, 2017 20:06:10 GMT -5
As someone who has lived with literally hundreds of pro amps over the years from any number of manufacturers, that's tubes, Class AB and Class D power amplifiers. I find the Class D's OK for driving sub woofers. But even then only just OK, I still prefer an audio quality Class AB power amplifier even for that task. For me they don't offer the complete package, sound quality, staging, clarity, etc. But on a watts per dollar basis they are unbeatable.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by beardedalbatross on May 25, 2017 20:41:23 GMT -5
Let's put Andrew Robinson's review (and the rest of the rah-rah-pro-amps crowd's reviews) to rest. You CAN hear the difference between Crown XLS series amps and Emotiva's amps. I'd guess (based on both personal experience and that of my audio amigos) that 90% plus of listeners would prefer the sound of the Emotivas. The remaining 10% either don't care or can't hear the differences. And power to you - if you're in the 10% that thinks that pro class D amps are peachy, then go forth and be happy. I could agree that maybe for surround sound use, the Crown amps might be adequate, but for stereo listening, alas - no. The Crown XLS series sounds glassy, and has a midrange/treble that lacks detail compared to the Emotiva amplifiers. That's what I hear, and it was true of every single Crown XLS model that I've owned (and they were cheap enough that I've owned most all of the models). I kept rereading Mr. Robinson's review & trying to convince myself that this cheap Crown amp was what Andrew claimed. But in the end, I just had to admit - Andrew was wrong. Plain and simple - the Crown XLS series amps are just not that good. As a bridged amplifier for subs, yes, the Crowns might be OK. As a full-range stereo amp, they are not OK. I've also tried conventional AB-class Crown amps including the PSA-2, DC-300A, and PS-400. They weren't bad, but again, they still weren't as good as ANY of the Emotiva amps. And it's saying something that the least expensive of the Emotivas can sound better than the most expensive of the Crowns. Crown amps are built for physical durability, electrical fault-tolerance, and power per dollar - not for sound quality. From what I've heard, the other "pro-amps," are the same or worse. So I've learned my lesson - No "pro" amps for me, thanks. YMMV Boomzilla Guess Im just going to have to bite the bullet, buy one and compare... Go ahead and purchase an amp to compare with your Crown. Heck level match and take some measurements while you're at it. It will save you a ton of money in the long run, I'm pretty sure about that. |
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Post by bolle on May 26, 2017 17:44:08 GMT -5
Well I switched from a PA 7-350 to my current PA amps because they sound better for me - go figure... Don´t know the crown personally - just don´t generalize! I looked very hard at the Sherbourn PA 7-350 offering and with council from a friend north of the border we decided that the sound floor was too high for my taste. I ended up with a great pair of amps,,,,,,, XPR-1's, OH! What a great decision that was. For me it was actually midrange performance and sibilance - the rest was quite good. The amp is still in use with a friend of mine and powering 5 speakers as well as 2 passive subs quite happily. In fact I even did send the PA 7-350 to an amplifier developer and manufacturer I know personally here in Germany for measuring before giving it away because I thought something was wrong with it but nothing could be found. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 25, 2021 13:32:22 GMT -5
Well - I get to eat my words (again)! Back in the day, I tried the Crown D-series amps (including the DC-300a), and for their time, they were OK, but haven’t aged well. I’ve owned virtually every single one of the Crown XLS series amps and, yes, they DO suck eggs. I’ve also owned the older Crown PS series amps. While audibly better than the XLS ones, they’re not the best I’ve heard. But…
The Crown PSA-2 amplifier, alone among the Crown line, seems to be not only good, but GREAT for high end use. It has power, midrange detail without glare, and amazing treble sweetness and extension. They’re antiques now, and finding a working one (much less one in any sort of good cosmetic condition) is a chore. But should you ever stumble across one, buy with confidence (and prepare to be amazed)!
Boom
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jun 25, 2021 13:43:05 GMT -5
Crown amps suck, buy Crest (says this former Crest dealer)  |
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 25, 2021 23:03:35 GMT -5
I got tired of hearing all the complaints about dialogue, so I bought a Crown Amp. for the center channel.
It sounds like crap but you can hear EVERY WORD they say
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Post by housetech on Jun 26, 2021 12:19:59 GMT -5
First, I'm no longer in the audio business and haven't been in decades. I'm no expert, but do know quality when I hear it.
Glenn & David carry some weight with me. Someone who does equipment evaluations as a professional may hear sounds the average listener may not. Both write factual statements that make total sense to me. There are others who have a lot of experience with multiple brands, that certainly can't be discounted.
In my very limited exposure to the new class D Crown (or others), I'll pass. I don't consider them "audiophile". I'm sure some will find class D acceptable for a certain applications. Designers & engineers build to a niche application, price point, keep that in mind.
When I hear a Mac, Krell, Levinson, Music Fidelity etc I hear quality, if you can afford it great, I can't. But one can't compare two totally different applications to one another. I would never expect the XPA5 to compete with them and it does not. I've had the XPA since 2015(?) and noticed it lack a little something, can't put my finger on it. It does the job I bought it for, sounds good. & dependable.
I'm going to make statement that many are going to call BS on, but it's my experience. When I got the XPA5, I did an A/B test. I had the flagship Denon AVR5700 (150w, 8 ohm, repurposed strictly for 2 cha.) analogue input and digital coax from DVD3800 DVD-A player, compared that to preamp out to XPA, the Denon receiver amp sounded better up to the higher db levels, but not by much- better speaker driver control. That "little something" was not an issue with the Denon amp stage. Like I stated some will call BS that a receiver could/did out perform a dedicated power amp. Surprised the h out of me.
I'm looking for a 2 ch amp for music (open to suggestions), I want to hear the DR-2 if that "little something" would be filled.
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Post by garbulky on Jun 26, 2021 15:36:08 GMT -5
First, I'm no longer in the audio business and haven't been in decades. I'm no expert, but do know quality when I hear it. Glenn & David carry some weight with me. Someone who does equipment evaluations as a professional may hear sounds the average listener may not. Both write factual statements that make total sense to me. There are others who have a lot of experience with multiple brands, that certainly can't be discounted. In my very limited exposure to the new class D Crown (or others), I'll pass. I don't consider them "audiophile". I'm sure some will find class D acceptable for a certain applications. Designers & engineers build to a niche application, price point, keep that in mind. When I hear a Mac, Krell, Levinson, Music Fidelity etc I hear quality, if you can afford it great, I can't. But one can't compare two totally different applications to one another. I would never expect the XPA5 to compete with them and it does not. I've had the XPA since 2015(?) and noticed it lack a little something, can't put my finger on it. It does the job I bought it for, sounds good. & dependable. I'm going to make statement that many are going to call BS on, but it's my experience. When I got the XPA5, I did an A/B test. I had the flagship Denon AVR5700 (150w, 8 ohm, repurposed strictly for 2 cha.) analogue input and digital coax from DVD3800 DVD-A player, compared that to preamp out to XPA, the Denon receiver amp sounded better up to the higher db levels, but not by much- better speaker driver control. That "little something" was not an issue with the Denon amp stage. Like I stated some will call BS that a receiver could/did out perform a dedicated power amp. Surprised the h out of me. I'm looking for a 2 ch amp for music (open to suggestions), I want to hear the DR-2 if that "little something" would be filled. A used pair of Emotiva XPA-1 gen 2. Best amp I've ever heard. Fast as hell in microdynamics. Serious bass impact. It's going to be hard to find a better amp in my opinion. Class A mode slides it in over the top with a very subtle and hard to point out difference that somehow ends up making it sound more immersive. Or Emotiva PA-1 - very similar in quality. May not drive every speaker well (like magnepans). Slightly lighter in bass - not that it lacks bass though. Tons of detail. Cons - sounds better if it is left turned on. Pros ultra lightweight. Takes up very little space. Perfect stack with the DC-1. Fully balanced. Nice and cheap |
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Post by leonski on Jul 8, 2021 18:26:22 GMT -5
Crown amps suck, buy Crest (says this former Crest dealer) Great! It is possible.....just possible......that the crown pro stuff would get the job done on the EASIEST speaker loads..... Once it started getting reactive, I suspect the pro stuff would show poorly...... They'd probably prove incapable on a difficult speaker like some THIELs....... |
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Post by audiobill on Jul 8, 2021 18:49:51 GMT -5
If you follow Garbulky’s advice, plan on the cost of replacing caps by a competent tech in power supply and signal path sooner rather than later.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 8, 2021 19:09:44 GMT -5
Great! It is possible.....just possible......that the crown pro stuff would get the job done on the EASIEST speaker loads..... Once it started getting reactive, I suspect the pro stuff would show poorly...... They'd probably prove incapable on a difficult speaker like some THIELs....... The Crown Class-D stuff, you're exactly right about. The PSA-2, I've heard on Thiel 5i, 3.0, and Beveridge electrostatic speakers (some of the most difficult to drive with wild reactivity), and it sounds glorious. Fact. Mr. Yohn dislikes Crown? Fine. So do I (at least most of their amps), but the PSA-2 is different. I'd also say that I've heard some pretty snazzy sounding Class D amplifiers. Emotiva's own PA-1 sounded really good, and Marantz has an integrated with Hypex modules that kicks. I think it isn't the brand or amplifier class that counts - it's the implementation. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 8, 2021 20:11:12 GMT -5
Mr. Yohn dislikes Crown? Fine. I was being facetious since my shop used to sell Crest pro amps (and Roland, QSC, BGW, a few others) but not Crown. I thought I had made it obvious that I was joking. Crown amps are fine, as are all pro amps, for their intended purposes. Indeed I installed many Crown amps as monitor amps in TV studios back in the day. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 8, 2021 21:42:49 GMT -5
I'm the world's absolute worst at detecting facetiousness or irony in online posts. I should know better by now. Apologies.
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Post by leonski on Jul 9, 2021 14:34:33 GMT -5
Great! It is possible.....just possible......that the crown pro stuff would get the job done on the EASIEST speaker loads..... Once it started getting reactive, I suspect the pro stuff would show poorly...... They'd probably prove incapable on a difficult speaker like some THIELs....... The Crown Class-D stuff, you're exactly right about. The PSA-2, I've heard on Thiel 5i, 3.0, and Beveridge electrostatic speakers (some of the most difficult to drive with wild reactivity), and it sounds glorious. Fact. Mr. Yohn dislikes Crown? Fine. So do I (at least most of their amps), but the PSA-2 is different. I'd also say that I've heard some pretty snazzy sounding Class D amplifiers. Emotiva's own PA-1 sounded really good, and Marantz has an integrated with Hypex modules that kicks. I think it isn't the brand or amplifier class that counts - it's the implementation. I'll tend to agree that HOW is more important than WHAT. That being said? I think ALL 'D' amps work to the load thru ZOBEL which is how they get rid of all the HF HASH which is generated by the amp just doing its business. My couple-year stint with B&O ASP modules was long-term NOT satisfying. And I think my lower powered Parasounds play as loud or louder AND do not have HF issues which were driving me nuts. |
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Post by housetech on Jul 11, 2021 16:50:51 GMT -5
I'm back home and in heaven again listening to my Emotiva electronics & Monitor Audio spkrs.
After a week of a Realistic receiver & spkrs, a Samsung soundbar, my ears hurt. lol
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Post by leonski on Jul 11, 2021 17:29:59 GMT -5
I was given a PAIR of Minimus 7 speakers from 35 or 40 years or MORE past. Tiny, die cast aluminum enclosures and a simple capacitor as crossover.
But for the price whenever/ Golden. They STILL sound fine. I may try them with my Part Express 'chip' amp of about 6 or 7 a side. PERFECT in the garage.
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Post by earwaxxer on Jul 18, 2021 18:19:46 GMT -5
I had a Crown pro amp and the bass from that class-D amp was great! I used it for a subwoofer and it worked fine. I did try it in one of my systems paired up with some bookshelf speakers and, again the bass kicked ass but I couldnt brag about the rest of the spectrum. I dont think that they are designed to be detailed and resolving like a good stereo amp.
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