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Post by lehighvalleyjeff on May 24, 2017 23:31:38 GMT -5
A few weeks ago my good friend of 31 years simpleman68 sold me his "Black Beauty" 305m tube amps. Since then I have really been appreciating music in ways that for years I haven't.
In the past two years that I've had the XPR-1's I really enjoyed their headroom and ability to accurately resolve details in music. They were literally a perfect sonic match on my Paradigm Studio 100's. I think over time my ears adjusted to and became very comfortable with that combination. Then the upgrade bug bit me again..... off the wagon I went.... full blown addict chasing the dragon in a pair of Legacy Whisper XD's. the hangover was realizing that the XD's didn't mate well with the XPR's. The highs were so detailed and crisp that it was unnatural. Voices sounded nasal and compressed so again my good friend simpleman68 turned me on to the Black Beauty amps. Overall the XPR's are very lively detailed and accurate amps.
Since hooking these new amps up I love almost everything I listen to but it's the polar opposite of everything solid state that I've owned in the past 30+ years. To a slight fault the treble may be rolled off a bit more but the dark, lucious, sultry midrange has totally seduced me away from seeking accuracy. They are dark but absolutely delicious to listen to. The depth of soundstage goes well behind my back wall and the imaging is so precise I find myself constantly instruments in the room. There is this amazing sense of intimacy portrayed on good classical, jazz and vocal recordings it seems like the performers are privately entertaining me in my living room. Ah, the dark side! It's warm and intimate but it violates so many of the sonic rules of which I've chased audio accuracy.
No the dark side is no where near as accurate as my XPR-1's but the warmth and darkness is so alluring I don't seem to give a crap about accuracy. At the cost of some minor treble roll off and added tube distortion I'm as close as I've been to enjoying Audio Nirvana as I've ever been!
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Post by Boomzilla on May 25, 2017 5:13:56 GMT -5
Your own happiness is the primary reason for an audio reproduction system, lehighvalleyjeff. Enjoy! (but post pictures)  |
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Post by sidvicious on May 25, 2017 6:32:43 GMT -5
I am so glad that you are enjoying the Black Beauty, I too went through a period where I thought solid state accuracy and efficiency was everything. Then I discovered some Rogue Audio M120’s, that just sounded great and had the bass performance and impact of a solid state, I couldn’t believe 60/120 watts could sound this powerful. This led me to Audio Research and my VT-100. I had my XPA-2 as well, but something kept bringing me back to the VT-100, it just sounded right, like a live performance and the differences between the two wasn’t 100 percent, but the I kept going back to the VT-100 for some reason. Due to Tube cost, I used the Vt-100 in the fall/winter months and the XPA-2 in the summer. Your amp is the reason that I so badly wanted the merger with Carver to happen, so that others on this forum could have experienced what you have and with Dan's genius pricing would have been done right,but so is life.
When I didn’t have the VT-100 in my system, I missed it, that is until the power switch went and had to be replaced and one of the tube’s sockets had to be re-soldered. I had mine for 2 and a half years before deciding and it needing a tube replacement at $1000 dollars, which is the point that my dealer said some people sale their unit and they hit Audiogon or local dealerships. I went back to a more solid state Audio Research with a tubed preamp and I’m very happy, but listening to the Audio Research Ref 75, makes me miss tubes. The Ref 75/se, does everything that you state that the Black Beauty does and the 75 watts seems like more than enough and the Ref 150/se both with KT120 or KT150 tubes is double the power and is simply sublime!!!!.
For those that have ever had the pleasure of hearing an Audio Research Ref 75/se or 150/se it is an experience you won’t forget and I’m sure it’s the same for the Black Beauty 305s. Tubes amps done right are hard to beat by solid state and the midrange is to die for. With tubes you sound like you are in the front row or every seat in the house is the front row, especially with acoustic jazz, classical and the female voice. It truly does sound like the musician is performing for just you as you hear every pluck of the guitar or every hit of the cymbals and ever inflection in the voice. You hear things that are recorded in the original track, but aren't brought out with solid state. With solid state you sound like you are further back in the stand, but the sound is still very enjoyable. Tubes may not be quote "accurate" or "efficient", but they sure do taste ever so good, like a cold beverage going down a hot throat in the summertime. Enjoy your equipment and you are not alone to be stunned by that Good Old Tube Magic!!!
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Post by milsap195 on May 25, 2017 7:36:30 GMT -5
A few weeks ago my good friend of 31 years simpleman68 sold me his "Black Beauty" 305m tube amps. Since then I have really been appreciating music in ways that for years I haven't. In the past two years that I've had the XPR-1's I really enjoyed their headroom and ability to accurately resolve details in music. They were literally a perfect sonic match on my Paradigm Studio 100's. I think over time my ears adjusted to and became very comfortable with that combination. Then the upgrade bug bit me again..... off the wagon I went.... full blown addict chasing the dragon in a pair of Legacy Whisper XD's. the hangover was realizing that the XD's didn't mate well with the XPR's. The highs were so detailed and crisp that it was unnatural. Voices sounded nasal and compressed so again my good friend simpleman68 turned me on to the Black Beauty amps. Overall the XPR's are very lively detailed and accurate amps. Since hooking these new amps up I love almost everything I listen to but it's the polar opposite of everything solid state that I've owned in the past 30+ years. To a slight fault the treble may be rolled off a bit more but the dark, lucious, sultry midrange has totally seduced me away from seeking accuracy. They are dark but absolutely delicious to listen to. The depth of soundstage goes well behind my back wall and the imaging is so precise I find myself constantly instruments in the room. There is this amazing sense of intimacy portrayed on good classical, jazz and vocal recordings it seems like the performers are privately entertaining me in my living room. Ah, the dark side! It's warm and intimate but it violates so many of the sonic rules of which I've chased audio accuracy. No the dark side is no where near as accurate as my XPR-1's but the warmth and darkness is so alluring I don't seem to give a crap about accuracy. At the cost of some minor treble roll off and added tube distortion I'm as close as I've been to enjoying Audio Nirvana as I've ever been! Great to hear you are loving your Carvers! When Emotiva purchased Carver it peaked my interest in tubes. I ran down a used pair of Carver 180's and fell in love. My current amp at the time was an xpa-2 and it just didn't hold a candle to the warmth and sultry sound that was coming from these beautiful new (used) amps. When the Kt-150 tube came out I was lucky enough to have Bob himself modify the 180's to run the new tube and the amps became even better. A couple of months ago when Big dan was cleaning out I had the opportunity to get the baby Carver black magic (VTA 20s) and have been using it ever since. Never knew that 20 wattts of high quality tube magic can sound so good! |
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Post by milsap195 on May 25, 2017 7:40:55 GMT -5
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Post by brubacca on May 25, 2017 7:51:14 GMT -5
I was also excited by the Emotiva/Carver connection. I never did hear why the split. They bought carver corp. Cleared out the remaining stock. Never released a emo glass product and carver went away. I'd love to know what happened.
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Post by simpleman68 on May 25, 2017 9:04:18 GMT -5
Your own happiness is the primary reason for an audio reproduction system, lehighvalleyjeff . Enjoy! (but post pictures) She's a purty amp for sure.  Scott Wish the cell pic would show more of the metal flake in these gorgeous amps.  |
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Post by milsap195 on May 25, 2017 9:54:06 GMT -5
I recommend running source direct to the amps and using the volume knob on each.
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,273
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Post by KeithL on May 25, 2017 10:04:44 GMT -5
I would like to shed a little light on the decision not to move forward with Emo Glass - at least for now (it's no big secret). Before we acquired Carver, there seemed to be a lot of interest in Emotiva tube gear. We've always considered tube gear to be an interesting alternative to modern solid state gear. At that time, we planned both to continue to offer Carver designs, and to develop a new, lower cost, line of tube products of our own. However, when the acquisition was well under way, and we actually started offering some of the original Carver gear for sale, at a VERY steep discount... we discovered that there was far less interest than we'd originally thought. So, when it became obvious that there simply wasn't sufficient demand to justify the cost of designing and manufacturing tube gear, we discontinued the initiative. (There were a few minor business issues with the acquisition itself, but the main reason for discontinuing the project was really just lack of sufficient market to justify it.) We certainly haven't ruled out the possibility that we may look into offering tube gear again in the future.... But, for now, it's on "indefinite hold". I was also excited by the Emotiva/Carver connection. I never did hear why the split. They bought carver corp. Cleared out the remaining stock. Never released a emo glass product and carver went away. I'd love to know what happened. |
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Post by monkumonku on May 25, 2017 10:13:13 GMT -5
I would like to shed a little light on the decision not to move forward with Emo Glass - at least for now (it's no big secret). Before we acquired Carver, there seemed to be a lot of interest in Emotiva tube gear. We've always considered tube gear to be an interesting alternative to modern solid state gear. At that time, we planned both to continue to offer Carver designs, and to develop a new, lower cost, line of tube products of our own. However, when the acquisition was well under way, and we actually started offering some of the original Carver gear for sale, at a VERY steep discount... we discovered that there was far less interest than we'd originally thought. So, when it became obvious that there simply wasn't sufficient demand to justify the cost of designing and manufacturing tube gear, we discontinued the initiative. (There were a few minor business issues with the acquisition itself, but the main reason for discontinuing the project was really just lack of sufficient market to justify it.) We certainly haven't ruled out the possibility that we may look into offering tube gear again in the future.... But, for now, it's on "indefinite hold". I was also excited by the Emotiva/Carver connection. I never did hear why the split. They bought carver corp. Cleared out the remaining stock. Never released a emo glass product and carver went away. I'd love to know what happened. You mean like how people clamor for more "healthy" food at restaurants and then when the restaurant adds it to their menu, those people are too busy eating the deep-fried stuff to notice? |
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Post by simpleman68 on May 25, 2017 10:27:49 GMT -5
For those that have asked, I replaced the Black Beauties with "Red Beauties" Same amp but in red. Absolutely love the pairing with the Whispers. To my ears, it's a heaven-made match. These were the original pair Dan put up for sale that were new in the box until I got them. Scott  |
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Post by simpleman68 on May 25, 2017 10:32:19 GMT -5
I recommend running source direct to the amps and using the volume knob on each. A great option for sure but the Whispers come with a DSP that is custom shaped for the speakers. The Wavelet we both upgraded to (original was Xilica XD 4080) also acts as a pre-amp, DAC etc. Room correction provided by Bohmer Audio and alters frequency as well as time alignment (internal processing sample rate 96kHz, bit depth 56 bits) Scott  |
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Post by tweed on May 25, 2017 11:14:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the explanation Keith!
Always wondered and as much as I now enjoy tube gear what you say sure makes sense when you're running a business.
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Post by pedrocols on May 25, 2017 11:32:13 GMT -5
Emotiva customers are spoiled. No way they can produce a competitive tube amp that is also affordable. High power tube amps aren't cheap to manufacture. Transformers are expensive.
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Post by brubacca on May 25, 2017 12:14:26 GMT -5
I would like to shed a little light on the decision not to move forward with Emo Glass - at least for now (it's no big secret). Before we acquired Carver, there seemed to be a lot of interest in Emotiva tube gear. We've always considered tube gear to be an interesting alternative to modern solid state gear. At that time, we planned both to continue to offer Carver designs, and to develop a new, lower cost, line of tube products of our own. However, when the acquisition was well under way, and we actually started offering some of the original Carver gear for sale, at a VERY steep discount... we discovered that there was far less interest than we'd originally thought. So, when it became obvious that there simply wasn't sufficient demand to justify the cost of designing and manufacturing tube gear, we discontinued the initiative. (There were a few minor business issues with the acquisition itself, but the main reason for discontinuing the project was really just lack of sufficient market to justify it.) We certainly haven't ruled out the possibility that we may look into offering tube gear again in the future.... But, for now, it's on "indefinite hold". I was also excited by the Emotiva/Carver connection. I never did hear why the split. They bought carver corp. Cleared out the remaining stock. Never released a emo glass product and carver went away. I'd love to know what happened. Keith, thanks for the reply. Have a great day |
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Post by teaman on May 25, 2017 18:56:19 GMT -5
Emotiva customers are spoiled. No way they can produce a competitive tube amp that is also affordable. High power tube amps aren't cheap to manufacture. Transformers are expensive. Not to be a negative nanny but Emotiva is finding it is much harder to stay competitive in the market of SS amps at the latest price points. |
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Post by audiobill on May 26, 2017 5:14:51 GMT -5
Important to note that there are several high-value, all American tube amps available. Megabucks not needed for A+ sonics, either in S/S or the lovely glow of tubes.
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Post by brubacca on May 26, 2017 6:07:21 GMT -5
Important to note that there are several high-value, all American tube amps available. Megabucks not needed for A+ sonics, either in S/S or the lovely glow of tubes. Tubes4hifi , Rogue Audio to name a couple. I had always hoped That Emotiva Glass would have been able to provide Rogue Titan Series components without the dealer markup. I thought they could have sold a 100W/ch tube amp at about $1,200. |
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Post by vcautokid on May 26, 2017 6:53:02 GMT -5
Yes Tubes are expensive to make. Chassis, power transformers and the like. Those who love tubes, get 'em anyway. Still loved the little VTL amp I had. Nicest tube Amp I ever had in tubes. David Manley's kid did a fine job on this.
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Post by simpleman68 on May 26, 2017 8:40:22 GMT -5
Important to note that there are several high-value, all American tube amps available. Megabucks not needed for A+ sonics, either in S/S or the lovely glow of tubes. No doubt, and some of the higher dollar amps aren't that spectacular either. I'll stress again though; combo is everything. I've heard great amps sounds sub-par on great speakers yet I've heard average amps make those same speakers sound amazing. Scott |
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