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Post by 405x5 on Aug 15, 2017 11:24:31 GMT -5
Exactly.... What we humans experience can be altered by all sorts of factors..... both physical and psychological. Mood is important; your stereo probably sounds different in the morning when you first get up than it does after work when you get home and you're tired. The effects of stuff like weather can be complex: for example damp air is denser, so may actually carry sound differently than dry air; many of us find grey rainy weather somewhat depressing, which makes everything seem a little more dreary and less exciting; and the untreated paper cones on older speakers may actually get both softer and heavier on days when the humidity is high. All of these contribute to a difference in how those speakers sound on bright sunny days and grey rainy days. And don't forget that some clothes may absorb certain frequencies better than others, and even your haircut can significantly affect the sound that reaches your ears. Then you add in factors about how you feel about the particular song you're playing, and even how carefully you're paying attention to it, and you have an idea how complicated it is. And, of course, there's that old classic: expectation bias. What we hear is largely determined by what we expect to hear. However, it's important to note that expectation bias works in a variety of ways. Some of us may expect an expensive speaker to sound better than a cheap one ("you get what you pay for"); others may expect the differences to be minimal ("you're past the point of diminishing returns" or "all amplifiers sound the same"). Some of us may expect the speaker we lovingly designed and built ourselves to sound better (pride of creation); others may expect a "real commercial product" to sound better than "a homemade project". And some of us may even have specific expectations about specific technologies (do multi-bit DACs really sound different than Delta-Sigma ones, or is it just that we expect them to?) Remember that expectation bias works BOTH WAYS. It may exaggerate differences, or make you hear things that aren't there; but it may also cause you to ignore or not notice real differences that you weren't expecting. We humans also have something called our "acoustic memory" - which is a fancy way of saying "we remember what we imagine something sounded like before". I say imagined because, as it turns out, our actual ability to remember how something sounds doesn't last very long at all - on the order of a very few minutes. Beyond that, we remember our impressions of what we heard, but not what it actually sounded like. (If you compare two speakers in an A/B test, switching back and forth, then you can compare how they actually sound. But, if you try to compare the speakers you're listening to today with the ones you had yesterday, you're comparing what you hear today to your impression of what those speakers sounded like yesterday. You may remember that they sounded "harsh", or "a bit dull and blurry", but the actual memory of what they sounded like is long gone. The value of experience is that it enables you to make more accurate and relevant impressions and remember them more accurately... which allows you to make more accurate comparisons. It's difficult to make a fair comparison between two speakers that "both sound a bit dull"; much easier to compare a speaker with "a broad 2 dB dip centered around 14k" to one with "a gradual 10 dB roll off between 5kHz and 20 kHz". Remember that, in both situations, your memory of the sound is pretty much gone, and you're really comparing "mental descriptions" of each.) Sure! Most of the time, it's US.... not the system, that makes it sound better (or worse) The gambit runs from ear wax to just plain mood. Bill And..... NO ONE ☝️ understands the psychological aspect of this better than the companies that market outrageously priced audiophile interconnects and alike. Bill |
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Post by gus4emo on Aug 15, 2017 13:06:13 GMT -5
I lean towards believing it's psychological, and maybe we should try first listening to Bluetooth speaker for a short period of time, then turn on the main system, boom.....
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Post by brubacca on Aug 15, 2017 14:15:02 GMT -5
Yes, and I hear a good scotch, bourbon or glass or two of wine makes the system sound really good.
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Post by novisnick on Aug 15, 2017 14:38:42 GMT -5
Yes, and I hear a good scotch, bourbon or glass or two of wine makes the system sound really good. I think you have it a little mixed up! 😋 🎶🎶🎶 |
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klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
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Post by klinemj on Aug 15, 2017 15:59:58 GMT -5
Mine varied a lot the last few months...been fighting a bad sinus condition that led to issues with ear pressurization and dizziness. It made my system unlistenable! Glad it is clearing out now!
Mark
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,273
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Post by KeithL on Aug 15, 2017 16:17:29 GMT -5
There are some other things that are well known to make your music sound better as well.... But I can't recommend them on a a nice legal family oriented forum like this one..... fffftttttttt..... hold it..... cough... cough...  Yes, and I hear a good scotch, bourbon or glass or two of wine makes the system sound really good. |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,273
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Post by KeithL on Aug 15, 2017 16:24:57 GMT -5
There is a sort of compromise...... It involves using strictly objective A/B testing in conjunction with what many reviewers like to call "reference equipment". In simplest terms, you can eliminate the issues with trying to remember what a piece of equipment sounds like if you simply keep it around for reference. You select one piece of equipment (your favorite - duh), and use it as a single reference to compare other equipment to. Whenever you audition a new piece of equipment, you carefully compare it to your reference equipment. This also works out well for a normal audiophile who doesn't have an unlimited budget. If some new piece of equipment sounds better than your reference equipment, then it replaces your OLD reference equipment, and becomes your new reference equipment. This way, your system becomes and continues to be your reference system. HOWEVER, when auditioning new equipment, you still do your best to do a direct A/B comparison as closely as you can. And you do your best to discern which piece of equipment is changing the sound by avoiding changing more than one piece of equipment at a time. The way you counteract things like mood is to conduct FULL COMPARISONS under a variety of circumstances..... Listen to both pieces of equipment on a cloudy day, or when you're tired, or after your third cup of coffee..... Just don't only listen to one on a cloudy day, and only listen to the other on a sunny day, and expect to make a fair comparison.... I agree with all of what has been said. For those who agree my question is, how do we objectively review or recommend anything without qualitative, measurable data? I think to "objectively" review something then like you say, qualitative, measurable data is needed otherwise there's no basis for comparison against other products or standards. But even so, reviews are going to be subjective because the reviewer has to state their opinion although hopefully it is based on extended listening to counteract the influence of mood on any particular session. Without the measurements, there can't be any objectivity. |
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Post by johnnyd70 on Aug 15, 2017 16:28:04 GMT -5
I would add ear fatigue. It's more prevalant than you realize. For example, if you've been in the car for a period of time and come home and turn on your system you'll probably feel that your system doesn't sound that great. Cars, even with the windows shut, can be really noisy even if you don't realize it. Your ears adapt, become less sensitive and affect your perception of the music you're listening to. Sitting in a quiet room first and allowing for your ears to re-adapt will help. Not to mention lawn mowers, leaf blowers, etc. and all the things that we deal with every day.
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Post by mountain on Aug 15, 2017 16:38:37 GMT -5
I love listening first thing in the morning. Fresh ears.
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Post by vneal on Aug 15, 2017 18:44:20 GMT -5
So I think the verdict is in. Systems can sound different at different times. Our psychological or physical state can have effect and possibly weather, actual electric power source , maybe even high tide. Who knows but a system can sound different at different times.
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Aug 15, 2017 19:36:20 GMT -5
As has been said already, sound does sound different at different times. Depends on a multitude of factors... biorhythm, mood, amount of stress one is under, whether or not the females in the house are experiencing their monthly issues (yes, seriously) etc.. etc...
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Post by gus4emo on Aug 15, 2017 19:50:14 GMT -5
Of course there are exceptions, it doesn't matter what time it is or how many beers I've had, or even no alcohol at all, Faithfully from Journey sounds AWESOME, lol....really. ...
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Post by trinhsman on Aug 15, 2017 20:21:42 GMT -5
This is a serious question. Do you find that sometimes your system sounds better or worse than others? I talked with my dealer once about this. This is one of the top facilities in the country, in the Atlanta, GA area. He told me absolutely your system can sound different at different times, unless you have a very good power conditioner in the mix. I do not. So, he told me power will fluctuate and can actually be dirtier different times of the day. I have found the time my system can sound the best is usually in the middle of the afternoon on a cool day. I'm guessing it's because there is less draw on our local power grid, but I'm just guessing. |
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Post by gus4emo on Aug 15, 2017 20:26:26 GMT -5
This is a serious question. Do you find that sometimes your system sounds better or worse than others? I talked with my dealer once about this. This is one of the top facilities in the country, in the Atlanta, GA area. He told me absolutely your system can sound different at different times, unless you have a very good power conditioner in the mix. I do not. So, he told me power will fluctuate and can actually be dirtier different times of the day. I have found the time my system can sound the best is usually in the middle of the afternoon on a cool day. I'm guessing it's because there is less draw on our local power grid, but I'm just guessing. NOT. |
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hemster
Global Moderator
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
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Post by hemster on Aug 15, 2017 20:31:44 GMT -5
I talked with my dealer once about this. This is one of the top facilities in the country, in the Atlanta, GA area. He told me absolutely your system can sound different at different times, unless you have a very good power conditioner in the mix. I do not. So, he told me power will fluctuate and can actually be dirtier different times of the day. I have found the time my system can sound the best is usually in the middle of the afternoon on a cool day. I'm guessing it's because there is less draw on our local power grid, but I'm just guessing. NOT. I doubt it's the power draw. Could be a myriad of other things... biorhythms, mood, etc. but doubtful it's the power. Imagine, do patients feel euphoric in the afternoon but and depressed at other times because of power fluctuations? |
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Post by bitsandbytes on Aug 16, 2017 3:19:16 GMT -5
Have noticed the change in sound quality as well at different times. Humidity can be a major physical factor. Sound waves will break up faster in dry air, since it is more dense than water vapor. If the sound happens to be "thin" - and if the humidity is low, this may be a significant contributing factor.
As far as quality of power from the grid goes, who knows? Am using two Blue Circle Thingee power conditioners on two dedicated lines for my solid state gear. Neither the dedicated lines nor the conditioners have prevented this variation in sound quality.
The bottom line is always what to do about it. Am not going to care what the humidity is or anything else before I listen to music. Don't care if it sounds merely very good or great - am still going to enjoy it.
It is important to recognize this does occur - whether the causes are physical or psychological. A recurring mistake I've made is jumping to conclusions about audio quality from a single listening test. This occurred for me especially when visiting a dealer. Can see the wisdom of trying out gear in your own home first before committing to finally owning it.
Walt
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 5:21:34 GMT -5
ChuckieNut is simply my screen name here and not meant to be serious. Sort of my type of dry self-deprecating humor. I am very bright with extended treble (Mensa level). I have a PhD in Extraterrestrial Psychosomatic Quantum Boson Physics.
IMO you other members at the Lounge are the ones who are NUTS!
OK, so I do hear an ever so slight improvement in the sound of my system When the moon is in the Seventh House and Jupiter aligns with Mars.
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Post by Jim on Aug 16, 2017 7:06:13 GMT -5
Have noticed the change in sound quality as well at different times. Humidity can be a major physical factor. Sound waves will break up faster in dry air, since it is more dense than water vapor. If the sound happens to be "thin" - and if the humidity is low, this may be a significant contributing factor. As far as quality of power from the grid goes, who knows? Am using two Blue Circle Thingee power conditioners on two dedicated lines for my solid state gear. Neither the dedicated lines nor the conditioners have prevented this variation in sound quality. The bottom line is always what to do about it. Am not going to care what the humidity is or anything else before I listen to music. Don't care if it sounds merely very good or great - am still going to enjoy it. It is important to recognize this does occur - whether the causes are physical or psychological. A recurring mistake I've made is jumping to conclusions about audio quality from a single listening test. This occurred for me especially when visiting a dealer. Can see the wisdom of trying out gear in your own home first before committing to finally owning it. Walt And that's why I always look at the forecast before considering a music listening session. And I always compare the nearby conditions against my personal weather station. I also take into account the phase of the moon. Because differences in microgravity can hugely impact the flavor of the sound too. |
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Post by vneal on Aug 16, 2017 8:47:47 GMT -5
I would add ear fatigue. It's more prevalant than you realize. For example, if you've been in the car for a period of time and come home and turn on your system you'll probably feel that your system doesn't sound that great. Cars, even with the windows shut, can be really noisy even if you don't realize it. Your ears adapt, become less sensitive and affect your perception of the music you're listening to. Sitting in a quiet room first and allowing for your ears to re-adapt will help. Not to mention lawn mowers, leaf blowers, etc. and all the things that we deal with every day. |
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Post by monkumonku on Aug 16, 2017 8:51:31 GMT -5
Have noticed the change in sound quality as well at different times. Humidity can be a major physical factor. Sound waves will break up faster in dry air, since it is more dense than water vapor. If the sound happens to be "thin" - and if the humidity is low, this may be a significant contributing factor. As far as quality of power from the grid goes, who knows? Am using two Blue Circle Thingee power conditioners on two dedicated lines for my solid state gear. Neither the dedicated lines nor the conditioners have prevented this variation in sound quality. The bottom line is always what to do about it. Am not going to care what the humidity is or anything else before I listen to music. Don't care if it sounds merely very good or great - am still going to enjoy it. It is important to recognize this does occur - whether the causes are physical or psychological. A recurring mistake I've made is jumping to conclusions about audio quality from a single listening test. This occurred for me especially when visiting a dealer. Can see the wisdom of trying out gear in your own home first before committing to finally owning it. Walt And that's why I always look at the forecast before considering a music listening session. And I always compare the nearby conditions against my personal weather station. I also take into account the phase of the moon. Because differences in microgravity can hugely impact the flavor of the sound too. What kind of weather station do you have? Are you sure it is accurate? Is it the latest technology that uses something akin to Dirac in that it adjusts the output (display of measurements) based on measuring the weather environment? And where do you have the station located because that makes a difference, too. It can't be too near the walls. And don't even think about looking outside to see what the weather is like because the weather station will tell you all you need to know. Also, don't forget it depends on what you've eaten that day. You are hear what how you eat. |
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