|
Post by vagabondo on Aug 28, 2017 21:54:31 GMT -5
By the way, a pertinent question,,,,,,,,what your budget for prepro and amp? This realwould help narrow things down a bit. Thanks 3k. This has been helpful everyone...my 2 main questions were around what amps would drive the speakers safely - and if I can find a pre/amp combo that could fit in my shelf space. from everyone's responses I gather I should look for as much power as I can afford and as much future proofing on the pre/processor side. Good. again, my issue is still going to come back to space/size...but I'll see what nets out once I short list my final options. thanks again everyone
|
|
novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,222
|
Post by novisnick on Aug 28, 2017 22:01:44 GMT -5
One more note of interest for you my friend, my set of LS50's just loved the heck out of my XPR-1's. Just in case your not familiar with the mightiest Emotiva Monoblocks ever offered the produce 1750 watts @ 4 ohm and to het all that you need a dedicated 20 amp line. Now Im not saying that the Kef's soaked up all that juice,,,,,but they sure do love it!
Bahahahahaha!!!
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Aug 28, 2017 23:57:32 GMT -5
By the way, a pertinent question,,,,,,,,what your budget for prepro and amp? This realwould help narrow things down a bit. Thanks 3k. This has been helpful everyone...my 2 main questions were around what amps would drive the speakers safely - and if I can find a pre/amp combo that could fit in my shelf space. from everyone's responses I gather I should look for as much power as I can afford and as much future proofing on the pre/processor side. Good. again, my issue is still going to come back to space/size...but I'll see what nets out once I short list my final options. thanks again everyone If you are wondering about safe amps, don't make the mistake of thinking that too much watts is "unsafe". No such thing *. I've driven 30 watt speakers with 200 watts and 400 watt speakers with a 1000 watt amps. I wouldn't hesitate to drive a 20 watt speaker with 2000 watts of amp. It's clipping from underpowered amps that can damage a speaker - usually the tweeter. *Unless you are plain crazy and ignore obvious audible signs of speaker distress, and/or play insanely loud for long periods of time melting the voice coils - which in that case what are you doing with small bookshelves?!!
|
|
|
Post by adaboy on Aug 29, 2017 0:10:24 GMT -5
The issue with these amps for me now is space. I'm using up my inches available. Seriously, no recommendations for a processor/pre-amp? Reason I liked the mc700 was that it was slim. I can't find the outlaw counterpart in Canada (Im in Toronto). You see, this is why those ht receivers that sends you guys into fits can be very attractive - I may only have less than 10 inches in height to work with. I swear I was looking at that rotel RAP1580 seriously for that very reason... Just buy a Marantz NR series (slim line) receiver and call it a day. Much more reliable has left and right pre outs for separates. Edit: oh and has all the bells and whistles blutooth, wifi etc.
|
|
|
Post by vagabondo on Aug 29, 2017 4:53:45 GMT -5
3k. This has been helpful everyone...my 2 main questions were around what amps would drive the speakers safely - and if I can find a pre/amp combo that could fit in my shelf space. from everyone's responses I gather I should look for as much power as I can afford and as much future proofing on the pre/processor side. Good. again, my issue is still going to come back to space/size...but I'll see what nets out once I short list my final options. thanks again everyone If you are wondering about safe amps, don't make the mistake of thinking that too much watts is "unsafe". No such thing *. I've driven 30 watt speakers with 200 watts and 400 watt speakers with a 1000 watt amps. I wouldn't hesitate to drive a 20 watt speaker with 2000 watts of amp. It's clipping from underpowered amps that can damage a speaker - usually the tweeter. *Unless you are plain crazy and ignore obvious audible signs of speaker distress, and/or play insanely loud for long periods of time melting the voice coils - which in that case what are you doing with small bookshelves?!! thanks...nope, I meant the opposite - everything I'm told/read says these are very inefficient and need power. I'm more concerned about the amp/receiver not being powerful enough to get the most out of the speaker. So far the a5175 fits my budget if it can drive the speaker well. I'm searching for more powerful used options as recommended here...
|
|
|
Post by vagabondo on Aug 29, 2017 4:56:55 GMT -5
The issue with these amps for me now is space. I'm using up my inches available. Seriously, no recommendations for a processor/pre-amp? Reason I liked the mc700 was that it was slim. I can't find the outlaw counterpart in Canada (Im in Toronto). You see, this is why those ht receivers that sends you guys into fits can be very attractive - I may only have less than 10 inches in height to work with. I swear I was looking at that rotel RAP1580 seriously for that very reason... Just buy a Marantz NR series (slim line) receiver and call it a day. Much more reliable has left and right pre outs for separates. Edit: oh and has all the bells and whistles blutooth, wifi etc. Before I learned more about the ls50s this was my first choice. But again, not powerful enough from what everyone is saying...and not sure if an external amp would help as its only for the 2 front channels (i have 3 ls50s for l-c-r)....and sorry for the stupid question but would this receiver then automatically distribute "the remaining power" to the other channels (center and rears) if I did that? For some reason I thought this one didn't do that..
|
|
|
Post by copperpipe on Aug 29, 2017 7:36:57 GMT -5
Don't buy the marantz And don't go cheap with the amps either. Like you've discovered, everybody who reviews those particular Kef's say they are fussy with amps (the wrong match makes it thin and harsh) and they love power. So buy a good amp. I would not recommend the basx series, go XPA if you want to purchase from Emotiva. Maybe use a basx for the surround, but get an xpa2 for the fronts or two xpa 1's. OR: if you do go marantz, then still get an xpa2 or dual xpa1's for the kefs. I heard the ls50's wired into a tube amp from australia (forget the brand, maybe these guys? www.melodyamplifier.com/), but it was heaven. I know very little about the mc700 since I don't use surround procesessors. Alternatively - you could sell the ls50's and get something a little easier to match with amps, like the R300's (I'm a little biased since I own those and think they're the better sounding speaker).
|
|
|
Post by rbk123 on Aug 29, 2017 8:42:40 GMT -5
rbk123 Well usually yes that's my recommendation - old school x series no matter what! But in this case any basx or u series amps would be a more appropriate (cost effective) front end for the KEF LS50. Not saying better stuff wouldn't be better. But I think these are more appropriate for them and I think the user won't be let down by them. Makes sense. What I thought you meant was since used XPA G1/G2 gear pretty much costs the same as new BasX gear, go for the prior XPA.
|
|
|
Post by rbk123 on Aug 29, 2017 8:50:45 GMT -5
Yup, mostly video - and frankly I don't like passing video through anything other than the oppo. Just need the mc700 for sound from oppo and TV...nothing fancy. I'm reading the forums to educate myself and seems most problems come with people doing things with hdmi etc. purist in me has no intention to do that so maybe it's a viable option after all. On the the amp side - just want to be sure the a5175 can handle the speakers. I would hate to regret not just going for an anthem 720 after all.. It's a good plan but you won't be able to get DTS-HD and Tru-HD any other way than via HDMI. Myself, I couldn't settle for a non-HD movie track if HD is an option.
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Aug 29, 2017 17:48:42 GMT -5
Just buy a Marantz NR series (slim line) receiver and call it a day. Much more reliable has left and right pre outs for separates. Edit: oh and has all the bells and whistles blutooth, wifi etc. Before I learned more about the ls50s this was my first choice. But again, not powerful enough from what everyone is saying...and not sure if an external amp would help as its only for the 2 front channels (i have 3 ls50s for l-c-r)....and sorry for the stupid question but would this receiver then automatically distribute "the remaining power" to the other channels (center and rears) if I did that? For some reason I thought this one didn't do that.. 2 parts of 'share the power'. Each channel has a maximum power usually called 'continuous'. And a Peak power, usually expressed as a +db number. !00 watts continueous and 150 watt peaks is about 1.8db 'headroom'. The OTHER part of the equation is the power supply. An amp like the XPA-5 will have enough powersupply to run all channels to some high power. But when running only 2 channels, more power is available from the PS. As some channels idle along, the 'surplus' power is available for other channels, to the maximum they can 'handle'. So, your question is good, but has 2 related answers. In Addition, an amp with a highly regulated PS might have zero headroom. Do you need headroom? Maybe or maybe not. An amp with huge RMS power will rarely see that kind of continuous usage. More likely you'll use a few watts with 10x or 20x that number as 'crest factor' of normal music. 25 watts continuous and 500 watt peaks is Massively Loud, even with speakers like my Maggies. And the LS50 would NOT stand for that kind of abuse.
|
|
novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,222
|
Post by novisnick on Aug 29, 2017 18:43:09 GMT -5
Playing some tunes and playing with some gear. My TA-100 is driving my KEF LS50's just fine. The TA-100 is a STEREO PREAMP/DAC/TUNER WITH INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER and drives 8 ohm speakers with 50 wpc and 4 ohms with 90 wpc, plenty, more would be better but the music sounds devine. This is a larger room then my cave. Tap to enlarge
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Aug 29, 2017 19:33:52 GMT -5
Playing some tunes and playing with some gear. My TA-100 is driving my KEF LS50's just fine. The TA-100 is a STEREO PREAMP/DAC/TUNER WITH INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER and drives 8 ohm speakers with 50 wpc and 4 ohms with 90 wpc, plenty, more would be better but the music sounds devine. This is a larger room then my cave. Tap to enlarge The TA-100 is what was ONCE called a 'receiver'. The most modern additions would be a DAC section and maybe bluetooth.
|
|
novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,222
|
Post by novisnick on Aug 29, 2017 19:40:59 GMT -5
Playing some tunes and playing with some gear. My TA-100 is driving my KEF LS50's just fine. The TA-100 is a STEREO PREAMP/DAC/TUNER WITH INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER and drives 8 ohm speakers with 50 wpc and 4 ohms with 90 wpc, plenty, more would be better but the music sounds devine. This is a larger room then my cave. Tap to enlarge The TA-100 is what was ONCE called a 'receiver'. The most modern additions would be a DAC section and maybe bluetooth. Hey, Im drinking from this,,,,,,,,,,,,
You can call it what you like! LOL
|
|
|
Post by hlevinson on Aug 30, 2017 19:42:24 GMT -5
as a fellow KEF fan I can say I have had similar issues over the years.
I started many years ago with some KEF Reference 104/2 which are amazing, but as you mentioned, the KEFs are VERY POWER HUNGRY and need a lot of power to really open up.
Over the years I upgraded to some larger KEF Reference 105/3 speakers (Kept the 104/2 for rears). I kept experimenting with high end integrated AVRs (Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo) and while they all sounded good, I felt like I was not getting 100% out of the KEFs.
About 4 years ago I upgraded to an Emotiva XPA-3 which I loved. I loved it so much that I recently got 2 Emotiva XPA-1 monoblocks. I also upgraded to some KEF Reference 4 speakers (Kept the 105/3 for rears).
I am now biamping the KEFs (XPA-1 for the LF and using the Integrated Onkyo amp for the HF/MF). I really does help to open up the KEFs and let them really sing.
I think you're going to have to bite the bullet and get some high end amps if you want the most out of the KEFs.
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Aug 30, 2017 21:06:44 GMT -5
I don't know how REALLY difficult the KEFs are to drive. But for sure, even the LS50 is bad news for most HT receivers.
Biamping won't buy you much unless you go 'all the way' and connnect drivers directly to the amp and use a line level crossover between pre and main amp.
I linked the Stereophile Measured Data for that speaker a while back in this thread. If you're curious, check it out.
|
|
novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,222
|
Post by novisnick on Aug 30, 2017 21:42:44 GMT -5
I don't know how REALLY difficult the KEFs are to drive. But for sure, even the LS50 is bad news for most HT receivers. Biamping won't buy you much unless you go 'all the way' and connnect drivers directly to the amp and use a line level crossover between pre and main amp. I linked the Stereophile Measured Data for that speaker a while back in this thread. If you're curious, check it out. I own a set, the TA-100 drives them fine but they really open up with my XPR-1's! 😁🎉🎶
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Aug 30, 2017 23:26:06 GMT -5
There is So Much 'space' between the TA and the XPR that you'd really have to 'nail' it down a little better. I know the A23 Parasound of 125x2@8 is used with the LS50s at shows. The Parasound is a high bias / high current design which is very capable into the '50s.
|
|
novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,222
|
Post by novisnick on Aug 31, 2017 2:24:27 GMT -5
There is So Much 'space' between the TA and the XPR that you'd really have to 'nail' it down a little better. I know the A23 Parasound of 125x2@8 is used with the LS50s at shows. The Parasound is a high bias / high current design which is very capable into the '50s. Yes, there's a huge difference between those amps, Ive also used a UPA-500 to drive the '50s, its rated at 90 wpc into 4 ohms and drives them bery well! I dont recall how the UPA-500 is rated driving only two channels but its sufficient IMO. I suggest use what you have and if you can buy as much power as you can afford in the slim line amps. I think theres 10" max he has , minus venting to breathe.
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Aug 31, 2017 13:41:11 GMT -5
I don't 'trust' amps with a 4 ohm power rating 1% distortion. I know I'm not big into specs, but this one is worrysome. At that point, the distortion is rising rapidly and the amp can be said to be simply out of headroom. You'll never hear 1% at maybe 100hz down, but in the critical midrange? The LS50s deserve better.
|
|
|
Post by monkumonku on Aug 31, 2017 13:47:49 GMT -5
I don't 'trust' amps with a 4 ohm power rating 1% distortion. I know I'm not big into specs, but this one is worrysome. At that point, the distortion is rising rapidly and the amp can be said to be simply out of headroom. You'll never hear 1% at maybe 100hz down, but in the critical midrange? The LS50s deserve better. Well maybe you can't hear 1% at < 100hz but audiophiles with golden skin can feel it.
|
|