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Post by dazza on Aug 30, 2017 9:02:13 GMT -5
Hi, im hoping to get some advice from those that have stopped chasing audio nirvana with respect to equipment and moved to room treatment. I'm going to start installing acoustics panels to walls and ceiling of my dedicated stereo room. I know where to place the wall panels, but the ceiling I'm unsure of. My problem is that the roof has a sloping ceiling about 30 degrees from right wall (highest) to left, do I install panels to run at the same angle (same height from panel to ceiling), or install them to maintain parallelism with the floor?
Thanks in advance
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Post by pknaz on Aug 30, 2017 9:20:27 GMT -5
I'd definitely give GIK Acoustics a call, they can make a 3D model of your room and help you identify best placement of panels and orientation. Its a free service.
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Post by simpleman68 on Aug 30, 2017 9:50:11 GMT -5
Several good companies out there making gear from cheap to give us your first born. I've learned a great deal from these folks: www.acousticfields.com/A great starting point. Scott
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Post by vneal on Aug 30, 2017 9:56:13 GMT -5
Mount them the same angle same height from panel to ceiling
ATS and GIK are two good suppliers. I personally use the 4" thick Vs 2" thick.
Put the ceiling panels JUST IN FRONT of your front speaker edge but on the ceilings-- Start with 2 each 2' X 4'.want ideally any panels an inch away that includes side panels Hang them a few inches away from the ceiling. Not flush.
I would not diffuse any sound unless it was behind your listening area centered or in-between your front two speakers centered.
Am I an expert. Yes
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Aug 30, 2017 9:56:34 GMT -5
I suggest diffusion panels on your ceiling not absorption, but I also like the advice above to go to experts currently in the business as a start.
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jlafrenz
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Post by jlafrenz on Aug 30, 2017 11:46:49 GMT -5
I suggest diffusion panels on your ceiling not absorption, but I also like the advice above to go to experts currently in the business as a start. I typically see absorption on the ceiling, but I am intrigued by the thought of diffusion. Do you have any more info on this? For the OP, treat the ceiling at first reflection points just as you would the side walls. There are several mounting systems out there.
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Post by simpleman68 on Aug 30, 2017 11:50:32 GMT -5
I suggest diffusion panels on your ceiling not absorption, but I also like the advice above to go to experts currently in the business as a start. I typically see absorption on the ceiling, but I am intrigued by the thought of diffusion. Do you have any more info on this? For the OP, treat the ceiling at first reflection points just as you would the side walls. There are several mounting systems out there. An interesting point, and one of the things I think has helped the sound in my current room. The ceilings are 20' and the room is 18' X 20' The back wall is a knee wall (4' high) that has a full size, cushy couch in front of it and the top opens to another large room. Very little rear wall reflection present. Scott
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Post by simpleman68 on Aug 30, 2017 11:53:18 GMT -5
I suggest diffusion panels on your ceiling not absorption, but I also like the advice above to go to experts currently in the business as a start. Would like to hear more about this. I've read about diffusion being used at the 6-7' mark on the side walls to deal with the 4k-8k range. Supposed to give more natural "sparkle" to the sound as opposed to absorption that mutes it and sounds less "airy" Amazing stuff. I could spend days listening to pros and looking at room analysis graphs just for the learning experience. Scott
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Aug 30, 2017 11:54:05 GMT -5
I suggest diffusion panels on your ceiling not absorption, but I also like the advice above to go to experts currently in the business as a start. I typically see absorption on the ceiling, but I am intrigued by the thought of diffusion. Do you have any more info on this? For the OP, treat the ceiling at first reflection points just as you would the side walls. There are several mounting systems out there. Diffusion keeps the room "live" but helps eliminate room modes and reverb. They can prevent standing waves without making the room sound like it is inside a pillow. Diffusers are commonly used in places like concert halls. Google "ceiling audio diffusion" for some good images.
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jlafrenz
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Post by jlafrenz on Aug 30, 2017 11:58:23 GMT -5
I typically see absorption on the ceiling, but I am intrigued by the thought of diffusion. Do you have any more info on this? For the OP, treat the ceiling at first reflection points just as you would the side walls. There are several mounting systems out there. Diffusion keeps the room "live" but helps eliminate room modes and reverb. They can prevent standing waves without making the room sound like it is inside a pillow. Diffusers are commonly used in places like concert halls. Google "ceiling audio diffusion" for some good images. I'll have to check those out. Do you still place them at the first reflection points or does positioning change once you go with diffusion.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Aug 30, 2017 12:05:30 GMT -5
Position is dependent on room geometry and the frequency of measured dominant room modes you need to suppress, but first reflection point is a good place to start. In reality ceiling treatments are often much more randomly placed, or indeed can just be used to cover the entire area from speakers to listener. Diffusion still reflects, just randomly, so the effect can be very interesting and is quite different from using standard absorption panels.
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Post by dazza on Aug 30, 2017 13:37:43 GMT -5
Many thanks for all the help, although I'm in the UK, it seems that GIK have a UK helpline so I'll start with them. I'll update as and when.
Once again, many thanks.
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Post by garbulky on Aug 30, 2017 13:53:54 GMT -5
The 4 vs the 2 from ats acoustics work well for different applications. The 4 definitely has a lot of aborption but for me it sucked out the warmth making things seem shouty so I ended up preferring the 2 inch. However mine is a small living room not a big one. The 4 might work better for different rooms.
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Post by vneal on Aug 30, 2017 14:39:46 GMT -5
You ALWAYS want to adsorb sound waves from the first reflection point on the outside sides and top(ceiling ) of speakers. ALL RECORDING studios abide by this. ALL. Diffusion is great in the center front and back center.
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Post by boethius on Aug 30, 2017 14:43:32 GMT -5
Are you going for one magical sweet spot, or for generally better sound regardless of where you sit or stand? A lot of advice online will be irrelevant if the assumptions you have and the assumptions of your advisors are shooting past each other.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Aug 30, 2017 14:53:10 GMT -5
You ALWAYS want to adsorb sound waves from the first reflection point on the outside sides and top(ceiling ) of speakers. ALL RECORDING studios abide by this. ALL. Diffusion is great in the center front and back center. Recording studios and listening rooms are not the same things.
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Post by Gary Cook on Aug 30, 2017 21:59:49 GMT -5
What the rest of the room like, does it have carpet, windows, curtains blinds, door ways, soft furnishings etc. I always like a room that has pretty good acoustics to start off before applying bandaids.
Cheers Gary
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Post by garbulky on Aug 31, 2017 0:20:16 GMT -5
What the rest of the room like, does it have carpet, windows, curtains blinds, door ways, soft furnishings etc. I always like a room that has pretty good acoustics to start off before applying bandaids. Cheers Gary I think it's the lucky few that are blessed with ideal or close to great rooms to start with. We just gotta work with what we got. Sometimes priorities must take precedence over audio. I'm glad I don't have lovely hard wood floors because I would be hard pressed to cover them with carpet!
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Post by dazza on Aug 31, 2017 3:14:34 GMT -5
What the rest of the room like, does it have carpet, windows, curtains blinds, door ways, soft furnishings etc. I always like a room that has pretty good acoustics to start off before applying bandaids. Cheers Gary I'm going for a listening sweet spot. It will be used as a dedicated listening room, so, there's only a single chair and my CD and Vinyl racks. Floor is wooden, but it has a large rug at the first reflection. Down side(s), left hand side is a large window and to the rear are a set of large patio doors. These will be covered, eventually, with large heavy duty curtains. Then, as previously mentioned, is the sloping ceiling.
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Post by Gary Cook on Aug 31, 2017 15:57:04 GMT -5
What the rest of the room like, does it have carpet, windows, curtains blinds, door ways, soft furnishings etc. I always like a room that has pretty good acoustics to start off before applying bandaids. I'm going for a listening sweet spot. It will be used as a dedicated listening room, so, there's only a single chair and my CD and Vinyl racks. Floor is wooden, but it has a large rug at the first reflection. Down side(s), left hand side is a large window and to the rear are a set of large patio doors. These will be covered, eventually, with large heavy duty curtains. Then, as previously mentioned, is the sloping ceiling. Thanks for that, here's what I would do. Complete the floor covering, wall to wall, with some sound absorbing underlay and a reasonably plush carpet. Then I'd cover the windows and the doors with double layer curtains. I'd locate the CD and vinyl racks away from the first reflection points as best as possible. If that not possible then it's curtains for them too. There's bound to be some carpet and underlay left over, don't throw it out, rolled up it into cylinders it makes good bass traps that we can test with later on. With the above completed I'd then spend some time optimising the speaker location, a few days listening at least. If you have a sub woofer (everyone should) then I'd try the subwoofer crawl (Google search if you don't know what that means) to optimise its position. Once I have a speaker position that gives me a sound stage that I like I mark it, duct tape is good. Then I'd grab a couple of the test bass traps and try them in the corners behind the speakers and then in the corners behind the listening position. What you are looking for is nice smooth bass, no boominess. At this point after a few more days listening it's not unusual (or impossible) to find that the sound is pretty damn good. There's an acceptable amount of "life" in the room but not a lot of echo. I'd then replace the test bass traps with whatever style suite the decorator tastes. There are some really cool designs around, so spend the time to find the ones that you like. This is because the next step (if it's required) is for wall and ceiling hangings and they can look ugly or blend in with the rest of room. I've stopped here because we are at least a couple of weeks away from the next step and we don't want to get ahead of ourselves. Cheers Gary
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