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Post by knucklehead on Sept 10, 2017 0:15:40 GMT -5
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Post by mountain on Sept 10, 2017 8:25:43 GMT -5
Does anyone remember Firesign Theatre? |
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Post by thorcorps on Sept 10, 2017 8:26:16 GMT -5
I will be the first to admit that for the past several years I've had my own prejudices against Class D ICE amplifiers. They aren't big and heavy like my XPR-1's and they aren't inefficient heat generators like my tube amps. Heck, I figured at best they might try to sound nearly as good as a class A/B design. They are cheaper so they must cut corners on sound quality. I believed this whole-heartedly until this evening when I installed my new Class D ICE amp into my system. My expectations were low and I sort of planned to just send it back after trying it out because it's only 20 pounds. How can this thing sound good? I unplugged my XPR-1's and popped the Legacy Audio Powerbloc2 in my system. The first 3 seconds of Steely Dan proved all my arrogant prejudices wrong. The sound of this thing is in a different league sonically than any other amp I've had in my system. Best part is I was listening to Spotify 320kb compression and was blown straight out of my seat. Further the sonic cues and details of where in the soundstage each instruments are more realistic. First and foremost the sound was full and natural like the instruments were being played in front of me. Not the highs, mids or lows stood out. Everything blended with a sense of live realism. The bass extension was never light on the XPR's but there is a sense of realism to bass guitar and cello sounds that gives the Legacy a clean edge. Voices, both male and female have an incredible sense of realism even beyond the tube amps I've used. Not artificially smooth but again, more real and lifelike. I'm hearing the artist's breath between words. My ears are very sensitive to bright and foreward treble. For lack of a better word I will say many solid state amps I've had problems with metallic tin sounding treble. The highs literally shimmer and naturally decay in the room as if the instruments are being played right in front of me. Finally the timbre's of instruments sounds so real I can almost see them playing in front of me. In conclusion I take back all of my skepticism and negativity about Class D. I unfairly came to a conclusion without trying it out. When well implemented any amplifier design can sound exceptional! The topology is only relevant in how well it's implemented which directly affects the sound quality of such an amp. Thanks for the impressions. Keep them coming. After leaving everything in my main 2-channel system stagnant for a few years, I'm starting to experiment again. Picked up a Nuforce STA-200 (was okay, didn't thrill me, sent it back), and a Schiit Vidar (nice amp). I don't think I have a Legacy dealer in GA, so where did you audition/purchase? (the only Class D I've ever listened to were the small T-amps years ago) |
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 10, 2017 9:00:57 GMT -5
Class D amps. Are still best suited for subwoofer applications.
Lots of brute power with low heat for driving the low frequencies.
Why spend an obscene amount of money 💰 to make a "D" class do what an A/B can for a lot less dough (SURE YOU CAN).....
I lost my plate amp. (Velodyne) in 2009/2010.
The HGS 18 weighs in at 115 pounds, so I was quite happy I could pull 10 screws and take out that light weight amplifier only from the back and send it to the factory for service.
Bill
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Post by rbk123 on Sept 10, 2017 10:15:32 GMT -5
Why spend an obscene amount of money 💰 to make a "D" class do what an A/B can for a lot less dough (SURE YOU CAN)..... Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the Legacy he mentioned less expensive than a pair of the A/B XPR-1's and (to Jeff) it outperforms the XPR's? |
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DYohn
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 18,488
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Post by DYohn on Sept 10, 2017 10:28:19 GMT -5
Obsession with price is for size queens, I guess. The only thing price determines is if you can afford it, or not.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 10, 2017 13:42:51 GMT -5
I'm certainly looking for a new Zone amp with Class D, I believe the technology is mature enough to produce very good sound, and I'd like to use less power, produce less heat, take up less space, and lift less weight. When I replace my XPA-7 I'll look for Class D options as well (Wyred4Sound's have had a good reputation), though I'll still consider a G3 with maybe 11 channels.
I don't agree though that you've "proven" anything, except to yourself, just nitpicking your title a bit.
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 11, 2017 8:01:54 GMT -5
Good luck trying to find a multichannel class D that delivers 400 watts rms@8ohms 5 channels.
If one is out there for reasonable money, I have not seen it.
When I shopped, that was the kind of power I was looking for with class not necessarily being a consideration.
Bill
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Post by pedrocols on Sept 11, 2017 8:15:53 GMT -5
Good luck trying to find a multichannel class D that delivers 400 watts rms@8ohms 5 channels. If one is out there for reasonable money, I have not seen it. When I shopped, that was the kind of power I was looking for with class not necessarily being a consideration. Bill Wanting and needing two completely different things. Kind of silly if you ask me to drive sorround speakers with that many watts. |
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Post by jackfish on Sept 11, 2017 9:41:49 GMT -5
Good luck trying to find a multichannel class D that delivers 400 watts rms@8ohms 5 channels. If one is out there for reasonable money, I have not seen it. When I shopped, that was the kind of power I was looking for with class not necessarily being a consideration. Bill $535 per channel. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 11, 2017 10:25:33 GMT -5
Good luck trying to find a multichannel class D that delivers 400 watts rms@8ohms 5 channels. If one is out there for reasonable money, I have not seen it. When I shopped, that was the kind of power I was looking for with class not necessarily being a consideration. Bill I'm not sure if you were replying to me, the XPA-7 is rated at 200 x 7 WPC (though it does over 500 WPC for two channel). Here are a couple Class D's that meet the 200 x 7 spec, the first is currently out of production for update, but it's in the price range of a G3 of similar configuration. The second is more expensive, but not outrageous (and fully balanced). They're around. www.wyred4sound.com/products/multichannel/mmc-serieswww.wyred4sound.com/products/power-amps/mc |
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 11, 2017 13:06:20 GMT -5
Good luck trying to find a multichannel class D that delivers 400 watts rms@8ohms 5 channels. If one is out there for reasonable money, I have not seen it. When I shopped, that was the kind of power I was looking for with class not necessarily being a consideration. Bill "Wanting and needing two completely different things. Kind of silly if you ask me to drive sorround speakers with that many watts." I would agree with you under many (perhaps most) home theater applications that would be overkill, but my reasons have more to do with how much of that power goes to the rear channels. First off, I wanted one neat and compact amplifier location that had ample power for the mains primarily, which are designed for 400 watt amps. I rely heavily on my center, which is a nominal 5 ohm load with dual 8 inch woofers and dual tweeters (sealed enclosures). The headroom is a blessing, especially when creating live listening level with music concert materials and Master Audio action stuff. Grant it, the back channels are loafing much of the time, but it is an equitable trade for having all my power needs coming from one compact space. Bill |
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 11, 2017 13:13:59 GMT -5
Good luck trying to find a multichannel class D that delivers 400 watts rms@8ohms 5 channels. If one is out there for reasonable money, I have not seen it. When I shopped, that was the kind of power I was looking for with class not necessarily being a consideration. Bill $535 per channel. What's interesting about that one is the weight, size and output are virtually IDENTICAL to my Sunfire. At least in this case, in order to generate the same power I have, times 5......it needed to be just as big. So class D for space saving and weight would be out the window as a consideration. So I guess, a listening test would be in order. Not a bad idea, since Today's Sunfire with the same power rating as my older one can only be had as a 7 channel. Bill |
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 11, 2017 13:21:17 GMT -5
Good luck trying to find a multichannel class D that delivers 400 watts rms@8ohms 5 channels. If one is out there for reasonable money, I have not seen it. When I shopped, that was the kind of power I was looking for with class not necessarily being a consideration. Bill I'm not sure if you were replying to me, the XPA-7 is rated at 200 x 7 WPC (though it does over 500 WPC for two channel). Here are a couple Class D's that meet the 200 x 7 spec, the first is currently out of production for update, but it's in the price range of a G3 of similar configuration. The second is more expensive, but not outrageous (and fully balanced). They're around. www.wyred4sound.com/products/multichannel/mmc-serieswww.wyred4sound.com/products/power-amps/mcNo No, I said 400 watts at 8 ohm rms driven into 5 channels continuous.......In one "box". Bill |
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Post by rbk123 on Sept 11, 2017 13:22:33 GMT -5
Good luck trying to find a multichannel class D that delivers 400 watts rms@8ohms 5 channels. If one is out there for reasonable money, I have not seen it. When I shopped, that was the kind of power I was looking for with class not necessarily being a consideration. Bill Wanting and needing two completely different things. Kind of silly if you ask me to drive sorround speakers with that many watts. Not to mention isn't this thread about 2 channels? I mean this is the "All Things Stereo" section after all. |
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 11, 2017 13:34:24 GMT -5
Wanting and needing two completely different things. Kind of silly if you ask me to drive sorround speakers with that many watts. Not to mention isn't this thread about 2 channels? I mean this is the "All Things Stereo" section after all. Yes you are correct.....and I forgot to bail out after I realized. Nonetheless, the conversation became interesting and beneficial to all I think.......so, I hung in there. Bill |
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Post by rbk123 on Sept 11, 2017 13:35:46 GMT -5
Not to mention isn't this thread about 2 channels? I mean this is the "All Things Stereo" section after all. Yes you are correct.....and I forgot to bail out after I realized. Nonetheless, the conversation became interesting and beneficial to all I think.......so, I hung in there.  |
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 11, 2017 13:39:20 GMT -5
Yes you are correct.....and I forgot to bail out after I realized. Nonetheless, the conversation became interesting and beneficial to all I think.......so, I hung in there. I suppose this means..."I'll BE BACK....no matter how many channels! Bill |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 11, 2017 13:51:28 GMT -5
I'm not sure if you were replying to me, the XPA-7 is rated at 200 x 7 WPC (though it does over 500 WPC for two channel). Here are a couple Class D's that meet the 200 x 7 spec, the first is currently out of production for update, but it's in the price range of a G3 of similar configuration. The second is more expensive, but not outrageous (and fully balanced). They're around. www.wyred4sound.com/products/multichannel/mmc-serieswww.wyred4sound.com/products/power-amps/mcNo No, I said 400 watts at 8 ohm rms driven into 5 channels continuous.......In one "box". Bill Ok, got it, but there are very few A/B amps that will do that; the XMR-5 was one of the few I'm aware of. |
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Post by pawsman on Sept 11, 2017 14:55:16 GMT -5
Good luck trying to find a multichannel class D that delivers 400 watts rms@8ohms 5 channels. If one is out there for reasonable money, I have not seen it. When I shopped, that was the kind of power I was looking for with class not necessarily being a consideration. Bill D-Sonic offers several different 5 channel amplifiers, some with more than 400 wpc. The 5 Channel amp with 400 wpc goes for $2675. AND, they offer greater power than 400 watts/channel for 7 channels: They offer 2 different 7 channel amps: 1 has 3 x 800 watts & 4 x 400 watts ($3575); the other has 2 x 1500 watts, 1 x 800 watts and 4 x 400 watts ($3975). www.d-sonic.net/products/multichannel-amplifiers/D-Sonic uses the Pascal modules, with their own input buffer- pwsman |
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