6 sided subwoofer design - your thoughts?

[keithmisegades]

For my home theater, I built two subwoofers with the following components

Driver: www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-ts400d-4-15-titanic-mk-4-subwoofer-4-ohm--295-405
Plate amp: www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-spa1000-1000w-subwoofer-plate-amplifier--300-809



Following the Thiele-Small parameters and other recommendations, I built the cabinets near 2.3 cu ft.

I used 1" MDF with a lock miter joint at the corners, cross bracing, and a liberal use of sealant. 
I almost broke my back getting the 110 lb enclosures upstairs into the bonus room. 

They definitely energize my bonus room and blend nicely with main main speakers after finding the right position and settings.

BUT, I think that with this size of driver, I am missing a bit of impact that I could get with multiple smaller drivers.

I am intrigued by the SUB 1 model by Paradigm at www.paradigm.com/products-archived/model=sub-1/page=overview

Has anyone tried to design and build one like this or a similar?

Having little to no knowledge of speaker design, this would appear to have a number of advantages.

Multiple smaller drivers (i.e. 10" or 12") with the right specs could move quicker and also provide the lowest octave necessary.

I wonder if Emotiva experts have ever doodled a similar design?

Thanks,
Keith

[TempTag]

I have an older, smaller, ML variant:
ML Descent

The sub puts out great, low, fast, boom-free bass. The opposed drivers means you can touch it at high output and not feel any vibration but it’s not the easiest sub to place in a room. It would be interesting to see what Emotiva could do with a similar design.

[DYohn]

The hardest part about building a mufti-sided subwoofer is getting the geometry right for the baffles. The only advantage to such a system is getting more drivers into a small space. That being said, a couple of 18"s will still blow it away.

[KeithL]

Here's an easy solution...... build a cube.
A cube is easy to build and has six sides.

You could just sit your cube on the ground, with feet on one side so the down-firing driver isn't sitting on the ground....
Or, even cooler, put a driver on each side, and mount it with one corner up and one corner down.
(Use a heavy plate for the base, with a single vertical rod mounted on it, running vertically through the enclosure.)

Picture THIS in your living room with a speaker on each face:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOOFUU08NFg

Sept 28, 2017 9:10:16 GMT -5 DYohn said:

The hardest part about building a mufti-sided subwoofer is getting the geometry right for the baffles. The only advantage to such a system is getting more drivers into a small space. That being said, a couple of 18"s will still blow it away.

[vneal]

think outside the box

eliminate the box entirely

use your walls a a mounting place

they would need to be reinforced

[DYohn]

Sept 28, 2017 11:56:15 GMT -5 vneal said:

think outside the box

eliminate the box entirely

use your walls a a mounting place

they would need to be reinforced

If you have the space it can be the best low frequency performance possible in a home.

www.ibsubwoofers.com/

[Deleted]

I know those drivers, and they should be more than capable of delivering 'impact' for days and days. They are not "slow"-sounding. Have you tried implementing room EQ, or adjusting the level of your subwoofers to be more in-balance with your main speakers? Much of the time, the "impact" you feel at a live concert or in a movie theater comes from large output capability in the upper bass and lower midrange, so if you have your subwoofers playing too loudly, they will sound "woofy" because, well, that's how sub-bass sounds. You need more than just big subwoofers to get "impact" - you need lots of output between 80 and 200 Hz also (in other words, you need wide-bandwidth bass power on tap), and that comes from your main speakers.

Spend some time tweaking the level, crossover frequency, and phase controls on your subwoofers. That's where I'd start. Or, if you have an XMC-1, run the Dirac room calibration, then play with your subwoofer level until things are balanced, and turn up the main volume to compensate. If your main speakers just can't keep up at your desired volume level without making audible distortion and unhappy noises, only then would I consider upgrading something, and it would be your main speakers. If you do, consider our T1 or T2 tower speakers - they have excellent impact and bass definition, and they hang together nicely at high levels.

[mgbpuff]

www.cnet.com/news/worlds-most-amazing-subwoofer-has-no-woofer/

[DYohn]

I heard the rotary "woofer" at an audio show. Great subsonics, but crap-sounding above about 80Hz so you'd still need a conventional woofer for LFE. And for a lot less than $12K you can achieve the same output with conventional drivers.

[MusicHead]

Sept 28, 2017 14:31:20 GMT -5 DYohn said:

Sept 28, 2017 11:56:15 GMT -5 vneal said:

think outside the box

eliminate the box entirely

use your walls a a mounting place

they would need to be reinforced

If you have the space it can be the best low frequency performance possible in a home.

www.ibsubwoofers.com/

Thanks for sharing the link, David. It made for a very interesting reading as I wait to start a business meeting.

So much to learn, so little time!

[asd]

I have been thinking about a cube. But i was thinking 4 active and two passive. Don't kbow if this is actually a good idea though.
Thoughts?

[DYohn]

Mar 22, 2018 11:45:07 GMT -5 asd said:

I have been thinking about a cube. But i was thinking 4 active and two passive. Don't kbow if this is actually a good idea though.
Thoughts?

In what sort of alignment?

[socketman]

think about building a midbass module with a minidsp to control the low frequency highpass or power it with an NU6000 from behringer which has all the bass management built in. The MBM's from DIYsoundgroup are well regarded and help get that mid bass slam that seems to be lacking with larger subs.

[emofrmcgy]

Mar 22, 2018 13:18:17 GMT -5 socketman said:

think about building a midbass module with a minidsp to control the low frequency highpass or power it with an NU6000 from behringer which has all the bass management built in. The MBM's from DIYsoundgroup are well regarded and help get that mid bass slam that seems to be lacking with larger subs.

One of the best upgrades I made was adding some pa460’s to my Uxl’s.

[asd]

Mar 22, 2018 12:52:09 GMT -5 DYohn said:

Mar 22, 2018 11:45:07 GMT -5 asd said:

I have been thinking about a cube. But i was thinking 4 active and two passive. Don't kbow if this is actually a good idea though.
Thoughts?

In what sort of alignment?

Passives on top and bottom.

[DYohn]

Yes, but 4 woofers aligned how? Isobaric? Push-pull? And passives on top and bottom of a cube? Not the best solution...

[emofrmcgy]

Mar 23, 2018 3:06:53 GMT -5 asd said:

Mar 22, 2018 12:52:09 GMT -5 DYohn said:

In what sort of alignment?

Passives on top and bottom.

Wouldn’t the weights added to the passives cause them to sag more in that configuration?

[emofrmcgy]

Mar 23, 2018 10:16:29 GMT -5 DYohn said:

Yes, but 4 woofers aligned how? Isobaric? Push-pull? And passives on top and bottom of a cube? Not the best solution...

What would be the difference between doing a push-pull vs conventional “push-push”.
Wouldn’t a push-pull in the same enclosure cancel each other out ?
Take me to school Mr. Yohn.
Please elaborate on why it’s not the best solution.

[405x5]

Sept 27, 2017 21:52:48 GMT -5 keithmisegades said:

For my home theater, I built two subwoofers with the following components

Driver: www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-ts400d-4-15-titanic-mk-4-subwoofer-4-ohm--295-405
Plate amp: www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-spa1000-1000w-subwoofer-plate-amplifier--300-809

View Attachment

Following the Thiele-Small parameters and other recommendations, I built the cabinets near 2.3 cu ft.

I used 1" MDF with a lock miter joint at the corners, cross bracing, and a liberal use of sealant. 
I almost broke my back getting the 110 lb enclosures upstairs into the bonus room. 

They definitely energize my bonus room and blend nicely with main main speakers after finding the right position and settings.

BUT, I think that with this size of driver, I am missing a bit of impact that I could get with multiple smaller drivers.

I am intrigued by the SUB 1 model by Paradigm at www.paradigm.com/products-archived/model=sub-1/page=overview

Has anyone tried to design and build one like this or a similar?

Having little to no knowledge of speaker design, this would appear to have a number of advantages.

Multiple smaller drivers (i.e. 10" or 12") with the right specs could move quicker and also provide the lowest octave necessary.

I wonder if Emotiva experts have ever doodled a similar design?

Thanks,
Keith

The biggest problem with a project like this is at the end of the day, it’s all about the sound and if you didn’t get where you want to be, they can be a daunting task to dispense with.
I know about backbreaking from getting my own 18” Velodyne 115 pounder in place.
However, I had a damm good idea what was gonna happen when I threw the switch.

I complement you on your work, I can’t nail two pieces of wood together and have it look right, but having it sound right is quite another thing.

Bill

[DYohn]

Push-pull designs are excellent for vibration cancellation. Take a look at M&K pro subwoofer designs. As far as having opposing passive radiators on any system, the down side is the group delay. If all you want is a loud boom, like in car audio, then maybe you will be satisfied with that sort of design, but in the home the combined effect of two passives 180 degrees out from each other will mean your room will ring and you'll likely have so much overhang that the bass will turn from notes or sounds into one big drone. I don't even want to think about the room mode activation that would likely occur. The only PR based subwoofer system I have ever thought sounded musical and not boomy was made by Salk but required very careful setup to make it sound good in room.

If you really want to use four drivers and two PRs, my suggestion is to either build four small cube single driver systems to place around your room, or two push-pull systems to set up in a pseudo-stereo configuration, and sell the PRs to someone else.