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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 25, 2017 10:26:34 GMT -5
Hi guys -
I recently measured my speakers (in room) and then made corrections via parametric equalizer in my jRiver software. So far so good. But now, I'd like to measure the speakers again with the correction active.
This means that the test signal (generated by computer A via FuzzMeasure software) needs to feed computer B (where the jRiver software is installed).
Both computers are MacBook Pros and both lack anything but analog or USB microphone inputs.
To add to the complication, computer A must be in my living room (so I can plug the UMIK-1 microphone into it for FuzzMeasure), while computer B is at the opposite end of the house in the computer room. Computer B connects to my Oppo UDP-205 via Ethernet. The Oppo is used as a DAC and feeds the analog amplification chain.
So here's the problem:
Computer A generates the test signal via FuzzMeasure
That signal then needs to enter computer B somehow.
jRiver Media Center software on computer B needs to apply equalization and then forward the equalized signal to the Oppo DAC / amplification chain.
Once the equalized signal emerges from the speakers, then the UMIK microphone will feed back the signal to Computer A's FuzzMeasure software for analysis.
So how do I make this happen? I'm drawing a blank.
I CAN move computer B to the living room for temporary service, but even then, I'm not seeing how to get the input into jRiver for equalization.
A final complication is that the FuzzMeasure software outputs either an ANALOG test signal or a digital test signal over TOSLINK. The B computer has no TOSLINK input, so the onboard DACs in computer A will need to send out the signal via the headphone output jack. I could route that analog signal to the microphone input of computer B, but how do I then direct jRiver to use the microphone input as a source? Even if it did so, the B computer would then need to re-digitize the signal via its internal ADC in order for jRiver's DSP Suite to apply equalization. If I can get to that point, then the headphone output jack on computer B can feed the amplification chain / speakers.
But if I do it that way, will the multiple conversions / reconversions invalidate any results I get? I'd be going from D to A in FuzzMeasure, from A to D at computer B's input, and from D to A again at computer B's output (all using the lowest quality built in converters of the laptops). I'm suspecting that the resolution of the measuring system will be far lower than the differences I'm trying to measure.
Your thoughts?
Thanks - Boomzilla
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Oct 25, 2017 10:37:40 GMT -5
Digital EQ = assification of sound as it removes bits to accomplish it's effect. But to answer your question create the test tones as digital files for playback through your EQ and that way you can use the two computers independently.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 25, 2017 11:53:40 GMT -5
Many MacBooks have digital inputs and outputs, the 3.5 mm phone jacks for Mic in and Headphone out, double as mini TOSLink connectors where you can route digital signals. It appears they have dropped this very useful feature from the newest models (why?), but most older models have it.
Edit: Sorry, I missed that one of your computers doesn’t have this feature.
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 25, 2017 13:59:14 GMT -5
Digital EQ = assification of sound as it removes bits to accomplish it's effect. But to answer your question create the test tones as digital files for playback through your EQ and that way you can use the two computers independently. A good idea on the face of it. But that won't work because the signal generation from the FuzzMeasure software must be synchronized with what the test microphone is hearing. Otherwise, the program has no way to know what frequencies are being played at what time (in other words, no way to create the frequency response graph). |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 25, 2017 14:02:36 GMT -5
Many MacBooks have digital inputs and outputs, the 3.5 mm phone jacks for Mic in and Headphone out, double as mini TOSLink connectors where you can route digital signals. It appears they have dropped this very useful feature from the newest models (why?), but most older models have it. Edit: Sorry, I missed that one of your computers doesn’t have this feature. Hi AudioHTIT - To the best of my knowledge, both of my MacBook Pros DO have TOSLINK out in their headphone jacks. But there will undoubtedly be some delay between signal generation, digital processing, and analog output. So even if I can move the signal from one computer to the other, without knowing what the time-lag is, there's no way for me to generate an accurate frequency response curve. I've about concluded that this just isn't going to work. I know where I want to go, but there's no way to get there from here. Boomzilla |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 25, 2017 14:09:35 GMT -5
Digital EQ = assification of sound as it removes bits to accomplish it's effect. But to answer your question create the test tones as digital files for playback through your EQ and that way you can use the two computers independently. A good idea on the face of it. But that won't work because the signal generation from the FuzzMeasure software must be synchronized with what the test microphone is hearing. Otherwise, the program has no way to know what frequencies are being played at what time (in other words, no way to create the frequency response graph). Have you considered REW?  Mark (PS - I know...sorry, couldn't resist...but it allows what you want to do just fine...) |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 25, 2017 14:12:02 GMT -5
Same issue, different software.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 25, 2017 14:26:10 GMT -5
Same issue, different software. I was pretty sure that with REW, you could send any signal through your system and have it measure. If I get how you are talking about doing it, you'd have to play the test tone through 1 computer and jRiver (given you want to use it for EQ - if I follow right), but then measure with the other. Been a while since I looked at that, though. Mark |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 25, 2017 14:26:10 GMT -5
Hi klinemj - Perhaps I was too hasty in dismissing REW - Can I measure AND equalize simultaneously from within the REW program? If so, then it WILL do what I want, but I'm skeptical. As I understood it, REW could generate a frequency response that could then be offloaded to a device such as DSPeaker. The outboard device had to do the equalization. Am I wrong? Thanks - Boom |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 25, 2017 14:27:18 GMT -5
Hi klinemj - Perhaps I was too hasty in dismissing REW - Can I measure AND equalize simultaneously from within the REW program? If so, then it WILL do what I want, but I'm skeptical. As I understood it, REW could generate a frequency response that could then be offloaded to a device such as DSPeaker. The outboard device had to do the equalization. Am I wrong? Thanks - Boom Now that is a good question...I am not sure on that. I want to say "yes", but again - it's been a while since I paid a lot of attention. Mark |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 25, 2017 14:32:30 GMT -5
You could use your laptop with the Behringer UCA 202 as an analog digitiser. It's both a DAC and an ADC at the same time. Connects via USB. I don't know if that solves your issue or not.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 25, 2017 14:45:34 GMT -5
Many MacBooks have digital inputs and outputs, the 3.5 mm phone jacks for Mic in and Headphone out, double as mini TOSLink connectors where you can route digital signals. It appears they have dropped this very useful feature from the newest models (why?), but most older models have it. Edit: Sorry, I missed that one of your computers doesn’t have this feature. Hi AudioHTIT - To the best of my knowledge, both of my MacBook Pros DO have TOSLINK out in their headphone jacks. But there will undoubtedly be some delay between signal generation, digital processing, and analog output. So even if I can move the signal from one computer to the other, without knowing what the time-lag is, there's no way for me to generate an accurate frequency response curve. I've about concluded that this just isn't going to work. I know where I want to go, but there's no way to get there from here. Boomzilla I guess I’m missing something, if you go toslink out to toslink in I don’t see where the analog conversion occurs. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 25, 2017 14:53:55 GMT -5
For REW I just use one computer, either a MacBookPro or a Dell PC. Both have the software loaded and the microphone is plugged into the microphone input (obviously). I have used the headphone (analogue) output which works OK, but I found using the digital output (HDMI) gives a better (very slightly) result, which I put down to using the DAC in the UMC-200 (rather than the DAC in the computer) plus it maybe helps using the same input (as for watching movies, HDMI). With the Oppo 203 I could use its HDMI input, which is closer to the front of the chain.
The latter method corrects for any imperfections in the whole signal chain, whereas using, say, an analogue output (computer) to analalogue input (UMC-200) would miss anything that arises from using the digital input. As well as anything that arises in the computer DAC and the ADC and DAC processor in the UMC-200. Matching inputs, getting as close to duplicating the full chain, maybe something to consider.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 25, 2017 15:13:07 GMT -5
I guess I’m missing something, if you go toslink out to toslink in I don’t see where the analog conversion occurs. Nope - The MBP laptops both have TOSLINK outputs, but neither has a TOSLINK input. |
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Post by foggy1956 on Oct 25, 2017 17:01:45 GMT -5
For REW I just use one computer, either a MacBookPro or a Dell PC. Both have the software loaded and the microphone is plugged into the microphone input (obviously). I have used the headphone (analogue) output which works OK, but I found using the digital output (HDMI) gives a better (very slightly) result, which I put down to using the DAC in the UMC-200 (rather than the DAC in the computer) plus it maybe helps using the same input (as for watching movies, HDMI). With the Oppo 203 I could use its HDMI input, which is closer to the front of the chain. The latter method corrects for any imperfections in the whole signal chain, whereas using, say, an analogue output (computer) to analalogue input (UMC-200) would miss anything that arises from using the digital input. As well as anything that arises in the computer DAC and the ADC and DAC processor in the UMC-200. Matching inputs, getting as close to duplicating the full chain, maybe something to consider. Cheers Gary In Boom 's case I believe, he wants to run REW's freq sweep through the filters he has created in jriver. I think if you can feed REW into jriver digitally it should work. REWc can then provide a timing source tone. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 25, 2017 17:21:35 GMT -5
OMG - this fuzzball continues to grow. Now I need REW and FuzzMeasure and they have to synchronize? This isn't worth the effort. I'm happy with the equalization results, whether I can measure them or not. Good enough for government work! Those who demand an "after" graph are welcome to have garbulky or novisnick come do one! LOL |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Oct 25, 2017 17:35:18 GMT -5
Digital EQ = assification of sound as it removes bits to accomplish it's effect. But to answer your question create the test tones as digital files for playback through your EQ and that way you can use the two computers independently. One needs Assification of sound as much as one needs a hole in the head!  |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Oct 25, 2017 17:37:44 GMT -5
OMG - this fuzzball continues to grow. Now I need REW and FuzzMeasure and they have to synchronize? This isn't worth the effort. I'm happy with the equalization results, whether I can measure them or not. Good enough for government work! Those who demand an "after" graph are welcome to have garbulky or novisnick come do one! LOL So are you abandoning your relentless quest for perfection?  |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Oct 25, 2017 17:41:14 GMT -5
Of course the best solution is to not use a software based room analyzer... nor a software-based EQ. Oh, and perhaps hire a professional? |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 25, 2017 18:20:12 GMT -5
OMG - this fuzzball continues to grow. Now I need REW and FuzzMeasure and they have to synchronize? This isn't worth the effort. I'm happy with the equalization results, whether I can measure them or not. Good enough for government work! Those who demand an "after" graph are welcome to have garbulky or novisnick come do one! LOL So are you abandoning your relentless quest for perfection? |
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