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Post by audiobill on Nov 2, 2017 20:27:46 GMT -5
With regard to tubes being "old technology" , disregard that as meaning inferior. Conrad-Johnson, AudioResearch, MacIntosh, VTA , VTL and others cater to those who demand the best SOUND, not "bang for the buck", parts count, meaningless specs or other irrelevant measures.
I have an Antique Sound Labs SET amp here along with my mighty VTA M125s, and I must tell you it has a sense of intimacy that's beguiling. Not powerful but very sweet.
Buy it, try it out and who knows, you may soon enjoy what so many of us know.
I've often heard that (insert your choice transistor amp) "sounds almost as good as tubes", but have never heard the opposite. Not once.
Listen with your ears, not with your eyes on a spec sheet.
Sorry if I've offended anyone's sensibilities......
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Nov 2, 2017 20:39:59 GMT -5
No matter what, tubes ARE old technology but whether they are inferior or superior is for each person to decide for themselves.
Specs aren't necessarily always meaningless. After all anything has to be able to be measured to quantify and compare meaningfully. If one prefers tube sound, that's great but it doesn't mean that transistor sound is somehow "inferior". There are several other components in the sonic chain that can color the sound so it can be very hard to attribute the difference just to the amp.
As for hearing that (insert your choice transistor amp) "sounds almost as good as tubes", this is a gross generalization at best! Could this be tube users trying (somewhat disdainfully) to justify their choice? I dunno...
I do agree however, listen with YOUR ears.. but do so in YOUR room, with YOUR gear! ... and with YOUR music. Then vote with YOUR wallet.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 3, 2017 13:40:16 GMT -5
With regard to tubes being "old technology" , disregard that as meaning inferior. Conrad-Johnson, AudioResearch, MacIntosh, VTA , VTL and others cater to those who demand the best SOUND, not "bang for the buck", parts count, meaningless specs or other irrelevant measures. I have an Antique Sound Labs SET amp here along with my mighty VTA M125s, and I must tell you it has a sense of intimacy that's beguiling. Not powerful but very sweet. Buy it, try it out and who knows, you may soon enjoy what so many of us know. I've often heard that (insert your choice transistor amp) "sounds almost as good as tubes", but have never heard the opposite. Not once. Listen with your ears, not with your eyes on a spec sheet. Sorry if I've offended anyone's sensibilities...... Well I guess I'm a bit of a wild card then. I do compare tubes to solid state and hope they sound as good as them in certain areas. But I'm also fair and that's why I say "certain areas". For instance, most tubes that sound close to solid state turn me off. They are so close to it, but yet lacking that last degree of what makes solid state good. So they come off as a slightly poor sounding solid state amp. And who wants a poor solid state amp? The areas I hope they sound like good solid state is: I'd like an open extended treble, SPEED - something most of them lack, non wooley/tubby rolled off bass. I think the strength of tubes is that they need to sound as good as tubes can sound and shouldn't pretend to be solid state. And when they do like B'zilla's modded Heathkit monoblocks, they sound fantastic! |
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Post by rbk123 on Nov 3, 2017 14:55:01 GMT -5
Buy it if you can easily resell it for the $250 or close (or more) if you don't like it. Then there is no risk.
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Post by leonski on Nov 3, 2017 18:26:50 GMT -5
Specs can be thought of as 'advisory'.
Not carved in stone or to be simply ignored, but rather, taken as part of the whole.
Just How I've been treating them for a while now.
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Post by gld3gld3 on Nov 3, 2017 20:13:40 GMT -5
Thanks, everyone, for your helpful thoughts and input.
I've decided I'm going to move forward cautiously into the realm of tube amplification, but perhaps not jump in immediately. I'm going to keep my eyes out for a used vintage (in good shape) or newer SET amp and hopefully I can score something American-made at a descent price. In the meantime, I would like to hear some SET amps to see if I like the sound. The trouble is, I don't know anyone that has one. I don't even know any audiophiles in my area. If I end up in the neighborhood (2hrs away) of the seller of this Chinese amp I will stop by and give it a listen. I may like what I hear and buy that amp. Or I may like the sound but decide to look for another make/model. I was tempted to jump on this quicker because of the relatively low cost and risk involved. However, if I get some chances to listen to SET amps without putting money down, this would be the least risky option. I don't know how this will happen, but I think it's the course I'm going to take. Thanks again for everyone's very helpful information and suggestions.
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Nov 3, 2017 22:08:27 GMT -5
gld3gld3 , see if there's an audiophile society in your area. Some of those members are bound to have tube setups. In my area, they take turns to visit each others' homes and members bring along their own music.
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Post by gld3gld3 on Nov 3, 2017 22:58:27 GMT -5
gld3gld3, see if there's an audiophile society in your area. Some of those members are bound to have tube setups. In my area, they take turns to visit reach others' homes and members bring along their own music. I will look into it! Thanks! |
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Post by leonski on Nov 3, 2017 23:37:17 GMT -5
Thanks, everyone, for your helpful thoughts and input. I've decided I'm going to move forward cautiously into the realm of tube amplification, but perhaps not jump in immediately. I'm going to keep my eyes out for a used vintage (in good shape) or newer SET amp and hopefully I can score something American-made at a descent price. In the meantime, I would like to hear some SET amps to see if I like the sound. The trouble is, I don't know anyone that has one. I don't even know any audiophiles in my area. If I end up in the neighborhood (2hrs away) of the seller of this Chinese amp I will stop by and give it a listen. I may like what I hear and buy that amp. Or I may like the sound but decide to look for another make/model. I was tempted to jump on this quicker because of the relatively low cost and risk involved. However, if I get some chances to listen to SET amps without putting money down, this would be the least risky option. I don't know how this will happen, but I think it's the course I'm going to take. Thanks again for everyone's very helpful information and suggestions. Attributing a certain 'sound' to a specific topology can be a mistake. The best sounds real good of nearly any configuration. If what you hear is well-matched and the amp is doing its job, than you may like it only to have it fall flat on its face with your speakers / room. SETs typically don't have a high damping factor, so some speakers may end up with 'flabby bass' while sounding good with SS. Spending more for something like Jolida, Manley or even Rogue. Some of the others may even 'limit' your exposure, since they have both a good track record and a reasonable 'used' demand. IOW? Buy it and NOT like it? I offhand do NOT know who the 'big names' are in SET amplifiers. You'll be out shipping unless you absolutely pay way too much. Otherwise, it may be close to a 'wash' after a month or so audition. That would, I think, better being 'stuck' with an amp you paid 200$ or whatever for and not be able to resell due to 'the word is out' or limited resale demand. Check with those who KNOW these kinds of amps and see who makes what, how well regarded it really is and maybe visit Audiogon for some pricing guess. |
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Post by garbulky on Nov 4, 2017 1:43:43 GMT -5
I know what you mean about wanting to try it out. Not having heard it, but you don't really want to spend a ton of money without knowing if you will even like it. I would just give it a go with what you were looking at. It sounds like it's just the thing you were looking for. The important thing is that you have a real tube amp...not one of those monoprice tube hybrids where it's just a tube preamplification stage and a class D amp.
Your M-lores will be an adequate match for them.
Just don't expect huge bring down the house volumes. But also expect to hear instruments being played at a realistic volume like if they were being played in real life in front of you. So it's not like you can only play quiet or have to be really careful with the volume. It can fill up a room - just not deafening.
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Post by audiobill on Nov 4, 2017 3:25:42 GMT -5
I have an SET amp I may be willing to part with. My room is huge, and my speakers inefficient so not a great match.
But it does sound sweet, indeed.....
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Nov 4, 2017 3:59:37 GMT -5
I have an SET amp I may be willing to part with. My room is huge, and my speakers inefficient so not a great match. But it does sound sweet, indeed..... Hey Bill, for us less learned, what is a set amp? |
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Post by audiobill on Nov 4, 2017 4:01:03 GMT -5
Single Ended Triode (vs push-pull)
Google it!!
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Nov 4, 2017 4:05:29 GMT -5
Single Ended Triode (vs push-pull) Google it!! Makes perfect sense now. Always learning! 👍 |
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Post by brubacca on Nov 4, 2017 5:51:52 GMT -5
If you are looking for an American made SET amp Decware should be on your list. Their ZEN amp is about $1,000 new and supposedly is amazing with the right high efficiency speakers.
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Post by drtrey3 on Nov 4, 2017 9:30:30 GMT -5
Trains, now there is some old technology.
Trey
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Post by brubacca on Nov 4, 2017 11:52:04 GMT -5
I'm on a train right now. Lehigh Valley Gorge Railway! Scenic tour with the family.
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Post by IronPigsDigs on Nov 4, 2017 16:55:23 GMT -5
I'm on a train right now. Lehigh Valley Gorge Railway! Scenic tour with the family. Love Jim Thorpe this time of year |
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Post by gld3gld3 on Nov 4, 2017 19:55:38 GMT -5
If you are looking for an American made SET amp Decware should be on your list. Their ZEN amp is about $1,000 new and supposedly is amazing with the right high efficiency speakers. That's definitely worth looking in to. Thanks for pointing that one out. If I am going to go new and built in the USA, then this looks like a reasonable option. Uhh, now I am lusting over a Zen! I would have to save my pennies for a while, but I believe it could be in my reach. We'll see what happens... |
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Post by leonski on Nov 6, 2017 1:53:04 GMT -5
Trains, now there is some old technology. Trey Substantial difference between an 1860 'choo-choo' and a modern Mag-Lev design capable of 200mph or more. In order to minimize downside, try to buy USED and save the 'new' for later. If you don't like it and have 'bought right', you won't get stung and should be about 'even' after the dust has settled. |
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