geebo
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Post by geebo on Dec 30, 2017 10:54:41 GMT -5
Yes tried adjusting the sub level after... what is everyone setting sub octave at 12 or 24?? and is it possible to run dirac without sub and just add it in after measurements are made to other speakers If your issue is that same as mine adjusting the sub levels does nothing, I have 2 really large subs and from what I have been able to conclude Dirac adjust the impulse response way off on one of them so in effect they are working against each other. In fairness my old Onkyo Audessey had the same problem but with the Onkyo I could run Audessey without the subs and then add them and adjust level and distance manually which worked very well. You can run dirac without the subs, load the settings and then add the subs manually however you will not be able to adjust distance so they won't be as well integrated as they could be. I am not sure the old bass settings stay if you do a new measurement/upload without the subs enabled but I did not do a lot of testing as it was not good enough for me. If you try this you will find that Dirac will crash unless it sees the same speaker config and then everything needs to be restarted..... If your issue is simlar to mine you can try move the sweetspot and play with the measuring locations, in my case moving the sweetspot one meter into the room got me the bass back big time. I still had to play with the curves and levels as has been mentioned to get my very good "old" bass back. I am still not happy as the overall timing is slightly off but its a lot better. A simple fix would be for Emotiva to let us do the subs manually like on the Onkyo but I am not sure they take this issue seriously. The only way to do it manually is with the two non-Dirac presets. Emotiva cannot change how Dirac runs things.
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Post by goozoo on Dec 30, 2017 12:20:05 GMT -5
I have setup dirac and really like what it does to my speakers but not to pleased with what it's doing to my subwoofer. It lost its airy feeling.. I ran dirac a few different times and more less same results. At times sub suprises me but overall not happy. Is it possible to take the sub out of the equation and run dirac then add it after so dirac doesn't set anything for it? Sub seems to sound better without dirac. I was running an onkyo rz810 before this for a bit and bass was great though it. Also do I set sub octave at 12 or 24? Any help would be apreciated Dirac light Xmc-1 California audio labs mca 2500 amp Arcadis AK5 speaker PSA xs30se sub Aprox 20x20 room Htpc source This has been an ongoing problem for most users of room correction systems as most of them can produce a flat response graphically, but not necessarily an acoustically pleasing one. The simplest and cheapest solution is for you to download the calibration file from ANSAT's signature and install it. This will help replace the crappy one they included with the mic. From there take your measurements again and this should provide a more accurate response. However, your problem will likely persist as the LE version provides no way for you to adjust the response curve; hence the recommendation by many to step up into the full version. If using the full version, then the goal is to get a flat response at a level that you are comfortable with in terms of dB at a given frequency range. Remember that the LFE channel only runs from 1-150Hz and your sub has a natural roll-off based on its' spec design. As you are relatively new to this, I would see what the natural uncorrected response is first (where your sub drops to -3dB on either end from the flat response) in DIRAC, then adjust your curve within that range. As for the 12 versus 24 dB/octave setting, this has to do with the slope of the drop off at the lower frequencies. The greater the number, the faster the drop off and the less smooth the transition. I almost always leave it at 12 in all my installs. Hope this helps and PM me if you need more help.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Dec 30, 2017 14:43:28 GMT -5
I never had an issue with it. Should I have started a short thread saying "I ran Dirac and had no issues"? Would that have given you a warm and fuzzy feeling? It might 🤣 Forums are funny in that its human nature to complain more than it is to say you are content. (or even praise) Note to OP: Please do not take these comments as a response to your original post. You have a valid situation that needs exploring to determine if dirac is suitable for your individual setup. If I have learned anything its that no one audio solution is truly universal. We all have unique ears and tastes.
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Post by theswede on Jan 2, 2018 11:34:15 GMT -5
If your issue is that same as mine adjusting the sub levels does nothing, I have 2 really large subs and from what I have been able to conclude Dirac adjust the impulse response way off on one of them so in effect they are working against each other. In fairness my old Onkyo Audessey had the same problem but with the Onkyo I could run Audessey without the subs and then add them and adjust level and distance manually which worked very well. You can run dirac without the subs, load the settings and then add the subs manually however you will not be able to adjust distance so they won't be as well integrated as they could be. I am not sure the old bass settings stay if you do a new measurement/upload without the subs enabled but I did not do a lot of testing as it was not good enough for me. If you try this you will find that Dirac will crash unless it sees the same speaker config and then everything needs to be restarted..... If your issue is simlar to mine you can try move the sweetspot and play with the measuring locations, in my case moving the sweetspot one meter into the room got me the bass back big time. I still had to play with the curves and levels as has been mentioned to get my very good "old" bass back. I am still not happy as the overall timing is slightly off but its a lot better. A simple fix would be for Emotiva to let us do the subs manually like on the Onkyo but I am not sure they take this issue seriously. The only way to do it manually is with the two non-Dirac presets. Emotiva cannot change how Dirac runs things. So when you buy a car and the software that runs the engine built by Bosch makes the engine misbehave in a certain driver situation you walk away thinking it’s not the car manufacturers responsability? There are several ways Emotiva to make this issue more managable for us, with or without Dirac.
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Post by theswede on Jan 2, 2018 11:43:45 GMT -5
I will try alternate cal file. but anyone ? 12 or 24 sub octave setting? ? The cal file is a couple of dB different here and there to the one you have and there is nothing saying that the new file is more accurate for your specific mic then the one you have. The 12 or 24 setting depends on you speakers, room and possible personal preference so play with the setting and crossover point. I run 24 and have played with this is the past and generally found 24 to be best but as always your speakers may have other issues that make 12 better for you. Do you have one or two subs?
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jan 2, 2018 11:52:25 GMT -5
The only way to do it manually is with the two non-Dirac presets. Emotiva cannot change how Dirac runs things. So when you buy a car and the software that runs the engine built by Bosch makes the engine misbehave in a certain driver situation you walk away thinking it’s not the car manufacturers responsability? There are several ways Emotiva to make this issue more managable for us, with or without Dirac. Emotiva pays a license fee to Dirac to put the software on their processor. Just like they do to Dolby et al. They cannot change the Dolby codecs and they cannot change how Dirac handles bass. That is solely up to Dirac. In the example you cited, the vehicle manufacturer pays Bosch or whoever to write software that is unique to that vehicle and they can and do make changes all the time. I wish I had a nickel for every software flash we do for Hyundai or Volkswagen. The vehicle manufacturer owns the software. Not the case with Emotiva and Dirac. Now Dirac is introducing a new version of the software but it remains to be seen how it handles bass management or if it will be available on the XMC. If you want to go the non Dirac way, you can use the PEQ's built into the XMC where two subs can be set separately from each other including distances. But it's a manual process and you'd need something like REW to help make it any easier.
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Post by foggy1956 on Jan 2, 2018 12:48:02 GMT -5
If I am understanding the OPs problem, the simplest and most effective solution would be to purchase dirac full and build approximately 6db shelf into his house curve, no?
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jan 2, 2018 21:16:23 GMT -5
I will try alternate cal file. but anyone ? 12 or 24 sub octave setting? ? The cal file is a couple of dB different here and there to the one you have and there is nothing saying that the new file is more accurate for your specific mic then the one you have. The 12 or 24 setting depends on you speakers, room and possible personal preference so play with the setting and crossover point. I run 24 and have played with this is the past and generally found 24 to be best but as always your speakers may have other issues that make 12 better for you. Do you have one or two subs? Well it's more than a couple dB difference here and there. It's more like 6dB at 30Hz and another 5~6dB in the other direction at 20kHz. Click image for larger version
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Post by socketman on Jan 2, 2018 22:38:44 GMT -5
I have 2 Emotiva mics , one i calibrated and one that came with my XMC-1 both tracked the same with REW using cross spectrums cal file, and Ansat did some math trickery with a mic he had calibrated and with the EMM-1 which was over my head but his math cal is very close to my calibrated file. Using the calibrated file from CS improved by bass dramatically compared to the stock file. Now i recall Keith saying that they monkey'd with their microphones and cal file to make it as flat of a response as they could. Im not going looking for that statement but its out there somewhere.
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Post by fbczar on Jan 3, 2018 9:53:00 GMT -5
If I am understanding the OPs problem, the simplest and most effective solution would be to purchase dirac full and build approximately 6db shelf into his house curve, no? You are absolutely correct. Dirac Full is the only way to go. The Custom Room Curve capability can pretty much address the subwoofer issues being discussed. You can play games with the standard version of Dirac and subwoofers, but there is no way the standard version can perform as well. It might also be a good idea to experiment with the XMC-1's stereo subwoofer setting in conjunction with Dirac Full.
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Post by theswede on Jan 4, 2018 7:24:03 GMT -5
So when you buy a car and the software that runs the engine built by Bosch makes the engine misbehave in a certain driver situation you walk away thinking it’s not the car manufacturers responsability? There are several ways Emotiva to make this issue more managable for us, with or without Dirac. Emotiva pays a license fee to Dirac to put the software on their processor. Just like they do to Dolby et al. They cannot change the Dolby codecs and they cannot change how Dirac handles bass. That is solely up to Dirac. In the example you cited, the vehicle manufacturer pays Bosch or whoever to write software that is unique to that vehicle and they can and do make changes all the time. I wish I had a nickel for every software flash we do for Hyundai or Volkswagen. The vehicle manufacturer owns the software. Not the case with Emotiva and Dirac. Now Dirac is introducing a new version of the software but it remains to be seen how it handles bass management or if it will be available on the XMC. If you want to go the non Dirac way, you can use the PEQ's built into the XMC where two subs can be set separately from each other including distances. But it's a manual process and you'd need something like REW to help make it any easier. Well lets agree to disagree, as I said before Dirac already have manual tweaking of timing in their software and terms are negotiated all the time besides the solution we are proposing do not include dirac. We want the option to exclude Dirac from the subs and set up distance and levels manually for the subs only just like on Onkyo and many others.
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Post by theswede on Jan 4, 2018 7:28:36 GMT -5
The cal file is a couple of dB different here and there to the one you have and there is nothing saying that the new file is more accurate for your specific mic then the one you have. The 12 or 24 setting depends on you speakers, room and possible personal preference so play with the setting and crossover point. I run 24 and have played with this is the past and generally found 24 to be best but as always your speakers may have other issues that make 12 better for you. Do you have one or two subs? Well it's more than a couple dB difference here and there. It's more like 6dB at 30Hz and another 5~6dB in the other direction at 20kHz. Click image for larger versionIn my case it was 1.5 dB difference compared to the std file and again there is nothing saying that it will be more correct for any specific microphone without actually measuring.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jan 4, 2018 7:40:47 GMT -5
Emotiva pays a license fee to Dirac to put the software on their processor. Just like they do to Dolby et al. They cannot change the Dolby codecs and they cannot change how Dirac handles bass. That is solely up to Dirac. In the example you cited, the vehicle manufacturer pays Bosch or whoever to write software that is unique to that vehicle and they can and do make changes all the time. I wish I had a nickel for every software flash we do for Hyundai or Volkswagen. The vehicle manufacturer owns the software. Not the case with Emotiva and Dirac. Now Dirac is introducing a new version of the software but it remains to be seen how it handles bass management or if it will be available on the XMC. If you want to go the non Dirac way, you can use the PEQ's built into the XMC where two subs can be set separately from each other including distances. But it's a manual process and you'd need something like REW to help make it any easier. Well lets agree to disagree, as I said before Dirac already have manual tweaking of timing in their software and terms are negotiated all the time besides the solution we are proposing do not include dirac. We want the option to exclude Dirac from the subs and set up distance and levels manually for the subs only just like on Onkyo and many others. You can disagree until the cows come home but as I said, Dirac and Dirac alone controls how their software works.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jan 4, 2018 7:42:16 GMT -5
Well it's more than a couple dB difference here and there. It's more like 6dB at 30Hz and another 5~6dB in the other direction at 20kHz. Click image for larger versionIn my case it was 1.5 dB difference compared to the std file and again there is nothing saying that it will be more correct for any specific microphone without actually measuring. The fact remains there is a 6dB difference in the cal files at both ends if done right. If a mic is off by a couple dB then it's off the same amount for both cal files. The difference of 6dB remains for any given mic.
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Post by rlstrader on Oct 31, 2020 11:52:21 GMT -5
I would definitely try a different mic cal file. There is 2 available, one from Cross Spectrum labs from when i had a EMM-1 calibrated and one from ansat. The files are available in his signature or i can send them to you if you pm me. Would you recommend running DIRAC Live full version with your mic cal file to get better results?
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Post by socketman on Nov 11, 2020 21:44:52 GMT -5
I would definitely try a different mic cal file. There is 2 available, one from Cross Spectrum labs from when i had a EMM-1 calibrated and one from ansat. The files are available in his signature or i can send them to you if you pm me. Would you recommend running DIRAC Live full version with your mic cal file to get better results? Better is subjective but you can try some different files and see which gives the results that you like, after all thats what is important . How it sounds to you is the bottom line. I still have the files if you want to try them.
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