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Post by leonski on Jan 11, 2018 21:28:08 GMT -5
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hemster
Global Moderator 
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,920
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Post by hemster on Jan 11, 2018 21:33:15 GMT -5
The article is dated but my unequivocal answer to the thread topic's question is "Yes!" provided that one is using speakers that are wired in phase, otherwise the picture gets muddy real quick.
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Post by leonski on Jan 11, 2018 23:26:17 GMT -5
Properly wired speakers a given:
Now? Does the phase of the entire system matter? Apparently not.
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 12, 2018 0:27:32 GMT -5
Speakers made in the northern hemisphere are always out of phase for us in the southern hemisphere anyway   Cheers Gary |
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Post by leonski on Jan 12, 2018 13:04:04 GMT -5
Check it out, Gary, Many discussions on this topic, including one right now over in 'amps' where somebody wants to know if the A-300 inverts phase. That would be important in a HT system where you could get bass cancelation (suck-out) caused by out of phase (relative) speakers. But in a 2-channel system, it seems to be of less importance if both speakers in connected the same. www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.phpNo absolute phase test here, but plenty of other stuff to keep you busy! emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/51805/300-amplifier?page=1&scrollTo=924130Thread where absolute phase is an issue. Even Keith doesn't know if the A-300 inverts. That's how important HE thinks it is. |
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Post by amped on Jan 12, 2018 14:25:31 GMT -5
Of course Polarity is important and more so in the analog realm where sound is natural and less compressed.
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Post by goozoo on Jan 12, 2018 19:15:28 GMT -5
Phase matters most when doing multi-channel where subs are involved (specifically at the crossover point). Perhaps a better question to ask is whether or not minimum phase would improve in-room response and the answer would be not as well as a mixed phase approach; hence DIRAC.
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Post by leonski on Jan 13, 2018 0:57:09 GMT -5
You guys are WAY off the rails.
DIRAC?
What does 'minimum phase' have to do with anything and what IS it?
I'm talking about what the guy in the A-300 thread asked. Does the amp invert phase? Or Not?
My question is, in a stereo, does it matter? Can you hear absolute phase? (not 1 speaker being wired opposite the other)
Can you point to a recording which is in correct phase? How would you know?
Polarity is different than phase. You can wire your speakers either way, as long as both are the same. That's absolute phase, at the speaker. But let's say you are in correct absolute phase, and buy an INVERTING amp? OK than to swap speaker -/+ and get it back to where it was.
And yes, it is easy to hear bass suck out caused by an out of phase SINGLE speaker or sub . Always adjust phase to max bass with both speakers wired the same. Mis-Wire ONE speaker and you'll never get it right.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 13, 2018 7:09:53 GMT -5
I once owned an Adcom GFA-1 (cube-shaped, like the Carver cube). To get by with a smaller power supply, the amp changed the phase on one channel by 90-degrees, so that musical peaks didn't both simultaneously draw on the power rail. Despite the 90-degree shift, one couldn't hear anything amiss during listening.
I've had amps that inverted absolute phase and those that didn't. I could never hear a difference. The ONLY way to hear a difference (IMHO) would be to have speakers that were ABSOLUTELY phase-coherent. To get that, any multi-driver speaker with a crossover is automatically out. They all mutilate phase at the crossover points. So what WOULD be absolutely phase-coherent? A full-range electrostatic with no crossover. Aside from that, EVERY speaker on the market that I know of (even my Thiels, where attention is paid to acoustical phase) would have enough crossover phase shift to mask the absolute phase of the amplifier.
Now some claim to be able to hear absolute phase, and I wouldn't deny that they can. But I've investigated the question with my own ears since the 1960's and have consistently determined that absolute phase is an academic issue to me.
For those who don't know the difference, absolute phase is NOT having one channel out of phase with the other (which CAN be heard, and with any speaker), but rather the propensity of the electronics to simultaneously change, in both channels, a negative wave from the recording to a positive one at output (or not).
Boom
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Post by flamingeye on Jan 13, 2018 10:52:32 GMT -5
I'm constantly out of Phase with my wife but we seam to make it work and yes I can hear it
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 13, 2018 11:02:42 GMT -5
Two things regarding Correct phase....made simple.
Take out one of the older, conventional THX DVD 📀 ‘S with the phase TEST and go thru it.
Simple, precise and uncomplicated.
After that, go back to the subwoofer and play some bass heavy material, and reverse phase....whichever setting has more is the correct setting. Repeat if multiple are involved, muting the other.
Bill
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Post by leonski on Jan 13, 2018 16:45:22 GMT -5
Two things regarding Correct phase....made simple. Take out one of the older, conventional THX DVD 📀 ‘S with the phase TEST and go thru it. Simple, precise and uncomplicated. After that, go back to the subwoofer and play some bass heavy material, and reverse phase....whichever setting has more is the correct setting. Repeat if multiple are involved, muting the other. Bill You are conflating RELATIVE phase (important) with ABSOLUTE phase which is of questionalble import, as long as they all match. Most persons are unable to hear Absolute phase while relative phase jumps out at 'ya. |
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 13, 2018 18:51:03 GMT -5
Two things regarding Correct phase....made simple. Take out one of the older, conventional THX DVD 📀 ‘S with the phase TEST and go thru it. Simple, precise and uncomplicated. After that, go back to the subwoofer and play some bass heavy material, and reverse phase....whichever setting has more is the correct setting. Repeat if multiple are involved, muting the other. Bill You are conflating RELATIVE phase (important) with ABSOLUTE phase which is of questionalble import, as long as they all match. Most persons are unable to hear Absolute phase while relative phase jumps out at 'ya. Yeah ok....what I SHOULD have said was if you cared enough to A/B polarity (uniformly) and then, run the tests the relative results will be correct. |
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Post by leonski on Jan 13, 2018 19:33:42 GMT -5
my old GCC250 integrated had a phase switch. (absolute) which made no difference as far as I could hear except on one or 2 songs for which I could express a preference.
Other than that? Simply didn't matter.
I once found such a test online but can't seem to find it now. Maybe I'll look again.
To take such a test, I'd recommend hooking into your stereo or perhaps a decent set of headphones, which is my choice.
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