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Post by overtheair on Jan 11, 2018 21:34:02 GMT -5
I really like the style of the XMC-1 Gen3 just announced at CES, but its still technically more than I need so I am intrigued as to how the Emotiva product line that supports ATMOS develops from here. The following is my idle and probably ignorant speculation but I'm interested in how people see the lower part of the line up developing. I know Emersa is a "product" for later in 2018 or maybe into 2019 but since we don't know its specs apart from it supporting ATMOS I thought I'd frame and put out my thoughts with this post. If the new XMC-1 just announced at CES is what was previously discussed as the XMC-2 then that product was suggested to be around $3,500 many moons ago. As such it would sit above the XMC-1 Gen 2 with ATMOS at $3,000 and the XMC-1 Gen 2 without Atmos at $2,500. Both these XMC-1 Gen 2 price points are taken from the current Emotiva product page. In my view these three price points are too close from a marketing perspective and I suspect may not be as competitive in the market today and going forward as when originally discussed (IIRC something like a year ago.) To give some substance to this view consider the NAD T777 V3 and T758 V3 at $2,500 and $1,300 respectively that both support 7.1.4 ATMOS and Dirac Lite (with Dirac Full option.) The NAD solutions are a little inelegant, still a work in progress based on AVS comments and the the T758 V3 is definitely quite basic but in my view, even just using them as pre-pros and ignoring their amplification, they provide some viable competition to Emotiva. That this new product has been called XMC-1 Gen 3 rather than XMC-2 suggests to me that it will be positioned as a replacement of the current XMC-1 Gen 2 chassis. I suspect we won't see all three XMC-1 options made available. The XMC-1 Gen 2 Atmos version will be quite close in product features versus the XMC-1 Gen 3 and I don't see the value of retaining and supporting two such similar products for long if at all, especially if the market dictates XMC-1 Gen 3 at a $2,500 price point To be clear I'm NOT suggesting that current XMC-1 Gen 2 products won't be upgraded to Atmos, only that they may not be sold from new that way. This is especially because when the current XMC-1 Gen 2 gets the ATMOS upgrade it will be with a replacement processing board according to the product page. This would seem to have to be one of five options - The same Texas Instruments (TI) processors as the current board but the board needs to be removed to be re-programmed with new/additional code and cannot be upgraded in place
- The same TI processors as the current board but maybe with additional/larger flash chip memory for extra code, i.e. board is removed and upgraded
- An upgraded TI processing board with new processors
- The new Analog Devices (ADI) processing board from the RMC-1 with lower spec/price point ADI processors adequate for the lower channel capability
- The same ADI processor board as the RMC-1
A TI based solution with ATMOS would mean two different ATMOS software platforms to support, one on Texas Instruments (TI) and one on the new Analog Devices (ADI) chipset. This doesn't seem optimal from a support perspective. The cost of the replacement processor board for the current XMC-1 Gen 2 is $599. If its ADI based then everything ATMOS at Emotiva is ADI based and support is simplified along with manufacturing and stock management. The question is whether this ADI platform could also migrate down to an Emersa price point, say $1,500. A preprocessor line up of MC-700 at $600, Emersa at $1,250, XMC-1 at $2,500 and RMC-1 at $5,000 seems reasonable, note the ~2x price multiplier in that sequence. I'm not sure how much more one would want to squeeze in there? If a TI platform is engineered with ATMOS support then maybe that is what migrates to the Emersa product. If the market still wants a 7.1 Dirac product going forward then the current TI platform clearly satisfies that but I do wonder how strong that market will be and whether it will continue to justify its own niche, versus just buying an ATMOS processor and not using ATMOS, especially in a price structure like that outlined above. After all the original Emersa product was cancelled due to its lack of ATMOS and that was positioned somewhere around $1,000 IIRC. Thoughts? |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Jan 11, 2018 21:40:58 GMT -5
You have answered your own question, young grasshopper! Emersa!
Oh and (coming from an ex-NAD fan) the T758 V3 is no competition to the Emotiva sound!
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Post by enricoclaudio on Jan 11, 2018 22:02:35 GMT -5
I think there is market for the three processors: XMC-1 Gen 2, XMC-1 Gen 3 and RMC-1. Not all rooms are ATMOS friendly. In my case I can't do ATMOS and I don't need/want ATMOS so the XMC-1 Gen 2 serve me well. I do want/need 4K so the price of $2500 which includes the HDMI v3 board is right for me. If you need ATMOS then you have the NEW XMC-1 Gen 3 at $3500 and if you need ATMOS 16 channels then go for the RMC-1 at $5000. I'm pretty sure Emotiva is not replacing the XMC-1 Gen 2 with the XMC-1 Gen 3, at least not any time soon.
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 12, 2018 0:45:30 GMT -5
I think there is market for the three processors: XMC-1 Gen 2, XMC-1 Gen 3 and RMC-1. Not all rooms are ATMOS friendly. In my case I can't do ATMOS and I don't need/want ATMOS so the XMC-1 Gen 2 serve me well. I do want/need 4K so the price of $2500 which includes the HDMI v3 board is right for me. If you need ATMOS then you have the NEW XMC-1 Gen 3 at $3500 and if you need ATMOS 16 channels then go for the RMC-1 at $5000. I'm pretty sure Emotiva is not replacing the XMC-1 Gen 2 with the XMC-1 Gen 3, at least not any time soon. I have heard this a number of times "my room isn't Atmos friendly" or "I can't install ceiling speakers" when the fact is we don't need ceiling speakers for Atmos to be a sound improvement. Being object oriented the accuracy of sound placement with Atmos is way more distinct/precise. I don't know if that's a technical advantage or if it's that the Amtos mix is just better. So whether we can or can't have ceiling speakers is as irrelevant as saying that we don't want Dolby True HD 7.1 because we only have 5.1 speakers, so we are sticking with Dolby Digital. The advantages of Atmos (and DTSX) is not just in the ceiling speakers, even in 5.1 it sounds better (to me anyway). Cheers Gary |
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Post by tutetibiimperes on Jan 12, 2018 1:04:06 GMT -5
I've been interested in the Emersa line since I heard about it, and I hope it comes to pass sometime in the near future. A 7-channel unit capable of 5.1.2 ATMOS with Dirac (hopefully upgradeable to the full version) at around a $1,000 price point would be perfect for me. I have 5.1 surround already, so I could easily add a couple of reflecting speakers on top of my towers and be ATMOS ready if I had a processor that could handle it. I don't have a place to put back-surrounds, and really, 5.1 is pretty immersive at the ground level.
I also don't have tons of legacy devices. Being able to hook up a UHD Blu-Ray player, a game console, a cable or satellite box, and maybe an external streaming device down the road when my TV's internal apps become out of date would do it for me, and all of that can be done via HDMI.
I've bounced around a lot of ideas, and while the XMC-1 and recently announced XMR-1 have a lot of appeal, I'm not going to use all of those features, I'm not going to need 11 or 13 channels, and I'd just as soon redirect the savings into a better subwoofer, amp, or speaker upgrades.
Originally I heard the Emersa amps were supposed to be Icepower based, which isn't necessarily bad, but since the rumors of the XMR-1 using Pascal amps have come about, I'd love to see Emotiva release an affordably priced standalone Pascal-based multichannel amplifier. If not there are a number of companies making Pascal and Hypex based multichannel amps.
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 12, 2018 1:05:09 GMT -5
You have answered your own question, young grasshopper! Emersa! I don't know about grasshoppers, but an Emersa processor is of no use to me, it's the wrong format. Aside from the aesthetics, the form factor is too small to have the inputs and outputs that I need. The context of this thread is sound and one that has been raised many times, the undeniable fact is there is huge yawning gulf between the $600 MC-700 and the cheapest XMC-1 at $2,500. Which I suspect is not going to get any better, as selling a $2,500 Processor that doesn't have Atmos/DTSX will prove ever more difficult as time goes on. Especially in volumes sufficient to justify making it. As a result I'd expect a $3,000 XMC-1 to be the lowest spec available in a very short timeframe. Add the huge price differential to the ongoing time frame for XMC-1 upgrades and it's easy to see why so many previously loyal Emotiva customers have moved on to another supplier that can satisfy their requirements. Cheers Gary |
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Post by tutetibiimperes on Jan 12, 2018 1:16:55 GMT -5
You have answered your own question, young grasshopper! Emersa! I don't know about grasshoppers, but an Emersa processor is of no use to me, it's the wrong format. Aside from the aesthetics, the form factor is too small to have the inputs and outputs that I need. The context of this thread is sound and one that has been raised many times, the undeniable fact is there is huge yawning gulf between the $600 MC-700 and the cheapest XMC-1 at $2,500. Which I suspect is not going to get any better, as selling a $2,500 Processor that doesn't have Atmos/DTSX will prove ever more difficult as time goes on. Especially in volumes sufficient to justify making it. As a result I'd expect a $3,000 XMC-1 to be the lowest spec available in a very short timeframe. Add the huge price differential to the ongoing time frame for XMC-1 upgrades and it's easy to see why so many previously loyal Emotiva customers have moved on to another supplier that can satisfy their requirements. Cheers Gary Unfortunately there isn't a lot out there in the affordable space with Dirac. There are the NAD units mentioned above, but they have wonky bass management issues with how Dirac is implemented (similar to the problems Arcam had with their Dirac-enabled processors and receivers, plus an incorrect crossover for the LFE channel in how it's all calculated). Stepping up to anything from the more boutique companies means a huge jump in price, over $10,000 (and well over) for most of them. There is the option of just buying a normal receiver, pumping the 7.1 analog outs into a MiniDSP DDRC-88A w/BM upgrade, and then going from that to an external amp, but it's not the most elegant solution, and again, you're limited to 7.1 channels, so you could do 5.1.2 ATMOS, but not 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 (or 9.1.4 like the new Denon and Marantz units announced will do internally). |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 12, 2018 1:36:22 GMT -5
I don't know about grasshoppers, but an Emersa processor is of no use to me, it's the wrong format. Aside from the aesthetics, the form factor is too small to have the inputs and outputs that I need. The context of this thread is sound and one that has been raised many times, the undeniable fact is there is huge yawning gulf between the $600 MC-700 and the cheapest XMC-1 at $2,500. Which I suspect is not going to get any better, as selling a $2,500 Processor that doesn't have Atmos/DTSX will prove ever more difficult as time goes on. Especially in volumes sufficient to justify making it. As a result I'd expect a $3,000 XMC-1 to be the lowest spec available in a very short timeframe. Add the huge price differential to the ongoing time frame for XMC-1 upgrades and it's easy to see why so many previously loyal Emotiva customers have moved on to another supplier that can satisfy their requirements. Unfortunately there isn't a lot out there in the affordable space with Dirac. There are the NAD units mentioned above, but they have wonky bass management issues with how Dirac is implemented (similar to the problems Arcam had with their Dirac-enabled processors and receivers, plus an incorrect crossover for the LFE channel in how it's all calculated). Stepping up to anything from the more boutique companies means a huge jump in price, over $10,000 (and well over) for most of them. There is the option of just buying a normal receiver, pumping the 7.1 analog outs into a MiniDSP DDRC-88A w/BM upgrade, and then going from that to an external amp, but it's not the most elegant solution, and again, you're limited to 7.1 channels, so you could do 5.1.2 ATMOS, but not 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 (or 9.1.4 like the new Denon and Marantz units announced will do internally). I have REW'd my set ups for quite a while and as such I'm not totally committed to having to have DIRAC. I think it would be good, but I'm not going to die in a ditch over it. Based on my experience I'd be quite happy with a 5.1 Atmos/DTSX set up, the sound improvement is well worth it. If I feel so inclined at a later time I can add a pair of ceiling speakers. What I really need right now (in fact needed several months ago) is a 4K HDR HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 solution. That's where the pain is right now, but I don't want to stick in a band aid temporary fix that I then have to readdress in a few months time. Cheers Gary |
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Post by overtheair on Jan 12, 2018 2:02:39 GMT -5
You have answered your own question, young grasshopper! Emersa! Oh and (coming from an ex-NAD fan) the T758 V3 is no competition to the Emotiva sound! Hmm well I suppose I asked for that, although since I am old enough to know the grasshopper reference from when it was first aired I am no longer young ... except in mind! Any thoughts on whether it would be a TI or ADI platform? Seems unlikely it would be something else again but maybe there are other platform options that make sense? I included NAD as a reference because of it setting a new price point for the combination of 7.1.4 ATMOS and DIRAC. For now I won't derail my own thread by asking for comparison of sound details though. |
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Post by overtheair on Jan 12, 2018 2:17:47 GMT -5
A 7-channel unit capable of 5.1.2 ATMOS with Dirac (hopefully upgradeable to the full version) at around a $1,000 price point would be perfect for me. I also don't have tons of legacy devices. Being able to hook up a UHD Blu-Ray player, a game console, a cable or satellite box, and maybe an external streaming device down the road when my TV's internal apps become out of date would do it for me, and all of that can be done via HDMI. ... I'm not going to use all of those features, I'm not going to need 11 or 13 channels, and I'd just as soon redirect the savings into a better subwoofer, amp, or speaker upgrades. This captures some of my own needs and why a lower end solution is of interest, somewhere between $1,000 and $1,500. At that price point I believe it has to support at least 5.1.4 and maybe 7.1.4 (although I only need 5.1.4). There seems to be a lot of competition in this price range that does this, some as I outlined supporting Dirac. I similarly don't have a lot of connection needs today and don't expect to see that change beyond maybe 4 HDMI and I could probably live with 3 HDMI. |
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Post by overtheair on Jan 12, 2018 2:35:11 GMT -5
You have answered your own question, young grasshopper! Emersa! I don't know about grasshoppers, but an Emersa processor is of no use to me, it's the wrong format. Aside from the aesthetics, the form factor is too small to have the inputs and outputs that I need. The context of this thread is sound and one that has been raised many times, the undeniable fact is there is huge yawning gulf between the $600 MC-700 and the cheapest XMC-1 at $2,500. Which I suspect is not going to get any better, as selling a $2,500 Processor that doesn't have Atmos/DTSX will prove ever more difficult as time goes on. Especially in volumes sufficient to justify making it. As a result I'd expect a $3,000 XMC-1 to be the lowest spec available in a very short timeframe. Add the huge price differential to the ongoing time frame for XMC-1 upgrades and it's easy to see why so many previously loyal Emotiva customers have moved on to another supplier that can satisfy their requirements. Cheers Gary The $3,000 price point for ATMOS (XMC-1 Gen 2) and $3,500 for XMC-1 Gen 3 are beyond what I am willing to spend at this time for ATMOS which is why I am interested in what slots in below this. Where one or both of these settle on pricing is likely to influence the specs and price point for what does come in below IMO. |
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Post by overtheair on Jan 12, 2018 2:57:20 GMT -5
Unfortunately there isn't a lot out there in the affordable space with Dirac. There are the NAD units mentioned above, but they have wonky bass management issues with how Dirac is implemented (similar to the problems Arcam had with their Dirac-enabled processors and receivers, plus an incorrect crossover for the LFE channel in how it's all calculated). Stepping up to anything from the more boutique companies means a huge jump in price, over $10,000 (and well over) for most of them. There is the option of just buying a normal receiver, pumping the 7.1 analog outs into a MiniDSP DDRC-88A w/BM upgrade, and then going from that to an external amp, but it's not the most elegant solution, and again, you're limited to 7.1 channels, so you could do 5.1.2 ATMOS, but not 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 (or 9.1.4 like the new Denon and Marantz units announced will do internally). I have REW'd my set ups for quite a while and as such I'm not totally committed to having to have DIRAC. I think it would be good, but I'm not going to die in a ditch over it. Based on my experience I'd be quite happy with a 5.1 Atmos/DTSX set up, the sound improvement is well worth it. If I feel so inclined at a later time I can add a pair of ceiling speakers. What I really need right now (in fact needed several months ago) is a 4K HDR HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 solution. That's where the pain is right now, but I don't want to stick in a band aid temporary fix that I then have to readdress in a few months time. Cheers Gary I'm assuming the NAD teething troubles will get sorted at some point, but we'll see. I could just go down the REW path and parametric EQ in a receiver if lower cost Dirac solutions aren't available or don't work out, I'm not really interested in other room correction solutions and frankly may not even need Dirac. I currently use an HTPC with modest sound card as my processor into Emo XPA-5 amp with 5.1 and HDMI to a projector. While its technically possible for ATMOS in a PC (IIRC Datasat Trinnov solution is engineered this way) I don't expect it to ever be available as a software solution for a HTPC so for 5.1.4 ATMOS I will need a processor. I have enjoyed my HTPC solution with some room treatment for many years so I'm pretty certain that I don't need super high quality audio for my movie enjoyment, I won't hear anything above 15kHz anyway  . Edit: Corrected PC based ATMOS processor to be Trinnov |
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Post by cwt on Jan 12, 2018 4:54:01 GMT -5
Now that the XMC1 gen3 has been bedded down to 7.2.4 and considering the EMP1's 2ru size so limiting back panel space ; I can see 5.1.2 atmos[ which would mesh with a simple menu system it promotes] giving a uniform increase in capability as you go up the line. Overtheair ; heres what Dan said in relation to continuance of the XMC1 GEN2;just substitute XMC-2 G3 for a new permanent XMC-1 G3 moniker In fact I realised when you revisit what has been stated about the "XMC2'' ie XMC1 gen3 it gives some clarity to other performance aspects like the Dirac live processor sampling rate  edit I think it was mentioned in a podcast that the same pcb board was going in the XMC1 and RMC1 ;happy to be corrected though as its important emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/890828/thread |
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Post by mgbpuff on Jan 12, 2018 5:37:50 GMT -5
I'm past all these lesser pre-pros, except perhaps for my bedroom 7.1 system which is still fine using the old UMC-1. I need the RMC-1 to step up my family room / ht theater from 7.2.4 Atmos to 7.2.6 Atmos / DTS-X. If you don't want Atmos, there are a zillion receivers / prepros to choose from; why Emotiva would want to compete in that market, I'll never understand. The niche for Emo to survive is not mass market stuff, nor high end (no ordinary person can afford)stuff, but excellent quality, value, and up to date audio and A/V equipment. Stooping too low or reaching too high will result in failure. So forget Emersa - that's Bose terrain.
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Post by overtheair on Jan 12, 2018 18:44:05 GMT -5
If you don't want Atmos, there are a zillion receivers / prepros to choose from; why Emotiva would want to compete in that market, I'll never understand. The niche for Emo to survive is not mass market stuff, nor high end (no ordinary person can afford)stuff, but excellent quality, value, and up to date audio and A/V equipment. Stooping too low or reaching too high will result in failure. So forget Emersa - that's Bose terrain. You seem to be suggesting that Emotiva shouldn't be offering MC-700 if you don't believe they should offer Emersa, or maybe I am missing something in what differentiates an Emersa product from an MC-700 product? I would argue that there is definitely a market for processors and receivers with pre-outs below $1,000, although there seem to be fewer receivers in this category nowadays leaving more of a market for Emotiva. BTW while on the topic of Emersa, I look at it as just a placeholder name for a product (or products) in a $1,000-$1,600 price range at this point so perhaps I shouldn't have referenced it because the form factor wasn't and isn't the primary driver for me. However, I re-checked the specs from December 2015 taken from here, "The Emersa EMP-1 ($900) is a 7.1 channel pre/pro with Dirac Live room correction, built-in Bluetooth connectivity, a USB DAC, a white OLED graphical display, and an Ethernet remote control option. It features unbalanced analog outputs plus a balanced subwoofer output, and it comes with a machined aluminum remote control. Furthermore, the EMP-1 uses the same operating system as Emotiva's flagship XMC-1 pre/pro." Add Atmos to this and it seem pretty persuasive in the $1,000 - $1,600 price range? Just to clarify, I (and I suspect many others) do want Atmos and perhaps also Dirac in a processor in the $1,000 - $1,600 range, certainly there are plenty of receivers with Atmos and pre-outs in this range but without Dirac, and one NAD product with both. Emotiva might somewhat parallel the receiver market [price points] by offering a [couple of pre-processors:] 5.2.2 Dirac product around the $1,000 price point and a 5.2.4 Dirac product around $1,600. I guess if the XMC-1 Gen 3 stays in the $3,000 range then a $2,200 7.2.4 [pre-processor] version, single ended only could be squeezed in. The question then is what DSP platform might be used for all these? We know Emotiva will have Atmos and Dirac on the Analog Devices (ADI) platform because that's what's in the RMC-1 and XMC-1 Gen 3. We don't know if the TI platform in the XMC-1 Gen 2 is being updated with Atmos or if the XMC-1 Gen 2 will be updated with the ADI platform per my original post in this thread. If the TI platform gets updated then that platform could be propagated down to the price points I've described above, leveraging all the previous engineering investment, but don't expect the current XMC-1 I/O because they wouldn't want to undermine the XMC-1 Gen 3. However, the same could also be said for an ADI platform assuming its not too expensive, with the added benefit of only supporting one Atmos engineering platform and simplified stock control. The ADI platform might even have the option to either de-populate or drop in lower performance chips for a lower end solution but looking at reference pricing on the ADI website for Griffin Lite family products its not clear if the savings would offset the hassle. Another option is to adopt a new lower end Atmos/Dirac platform. I don't have a source but from images it looks like the NAD Atmos/Dirac solution might be based on Cirrus Logic, presumably the CS49834/44. Emotiva have used Cirrus before and this chip has been widely used by other AVR manufacturers but again I question if it would be worth the engineering investment and logistical cost of supporting a second Atmos/Dirac platform. Of course all this wild speculation is fine but whatever product results in this price range is also complicated for Emotiva by the blessing and curse of 40% and 25% discounts that may also be applied. Edit: Clarified what might have been confusing when I said Emotiva might parallel the receiver market. I meant with pre-pros not with receivers, added text in square brackets |
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Post by tutetibiimperes on Jan 12, 2018 20:00:23 GMT -5
I'm past all these lesser pre-pros, except perhaps for my bedroom 7.1 system which is still fine using the old UMC-1. I need the RMC-1 to step up my family room / ht theater from 7.2.4 Atmos to 7.2.6 Atmos / DTS-X. If you don't want Atmos, there are a zillion receivers / prepros to choose from; why Emotiva would want to compete in that market, I'll never understand. The niche for Emo to survive is not mass market stuff, nor high end (no ordinary person can afford)stuff, but excellent quality, value, and up to date audio and A/V equipment. Stooping too low or reaching too high will result in failure. So forget Emersa - that's Bose terrain. I don't see anything Bose-y about the proposed Emersa line. If it supports all of the standards and ends up being able to decode Atmos in 7 channels (which it should, as from what I understand that was the reason for the delay) and can be upgraded to the full version of Dirac, it'll perform just as well as the XMC-1 G3 or RMC-1 for anyone who doesn't need/want more than 5.1.2. Balanced outputs don't matter much if you don't have extremely long cable runs (and the back end that was shown at CES last year showed an XLR sub lead, which is typically the longest cable run in a system), tons of inputs are great if you need/use them, but if you just have a few devices and they're all HDMI, it's a waste. The big 'must haves' for me are HDMI 2.0a/HDCP 2.2 on all HDMI inputs and on both HDMI outputs, upgradeability to the full version of Dirac, and support for at least 2 height channels so I can stick some ceiling reflecting speakers on top of my towers. If it does all of that, I'll be a happy camper. There's nothing else on the market that does that right now. |
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Post by overtheair on Jan 12, 2018 21:31:37 GMT -5
The big 'must haves' for me are HDMI 2.0a/HDCP 2.2 on all HDMI inputs and on both HDMI outputs, upgradeability to the full version of Dirac, and support for at least 2 height channels so I can stick some ceiling reflecting speakers on top of my towers. If it does all of that, I'll be a happy camper. There's nothing else on the market that does that right now. From your earlier comment I assume you're currently discounting NAD in this space? If NAD's current teething issues are only software/firmware related and not constrained by hardware design/DSP performance limitations then they will presumably meet this specification at some point. If they do then in my mind this sets a "benchmark"/target for Emotiva's product line up. Of course I am only comparing the high level Dirac and Atmos specs here (and currently NAD don't yet support DTS:X) so there is still plenty of scope for different capabilities/differences between the two. |
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Post by MusicHead on Jan 12, 2018 21:35:08 GMT -5
As someone who is immensely enjoying his humble Fusion 8100 + Ascend + Rythmik system, I give another vote to a prepro in between the MC-700 and the XMC-1.
As long as I stay in my current home, I am not going beyond a 5.1 system, but I'd take Atmos, 6 HDMI inputs with HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2 for full 4k support.
No Dirac would not be a deal breaker. I could live with a good parametric EQ combined with room treatment.
Something as the above in the $1,000-1,200 range plus a 5-ch amp (or even 7-ch if I wanted to try Atmos with two reflected height channels) with 125-150W/ch would be a realistic upgrade path for me (room is approx 17x13x8 with two openings to kitchen and foyer).
My previous system had a NAD T-752, a pretty decent sounding AVR in its days compared to the mainstream.
I will sit tight, wait and save money for my next upgrade while I continue to enjoy my giants killer system 😁.
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Post by tutetibiimperes on Jan 12, 2018 22:18:14 GMT -5
The big 'must haves' for me are HDMI 2.0a/HDCP 2.2 on all HDMI inputs and on both HDMI outputs, upgradeability to the full version of Dirac, and support for at least 2 height channels so I can stick some ceiling reflecting speakers on top of my towers. If it does all of that, I'll be a happy camper. There's nothing else on the market that does that right now. From your earlier comment I assume you're currently discounting NAD in this space? If NAD's current teething issues are only software/firmware related and not constrained by hardware design/DSP performance limitations then they will presumably meet this specification at some point. If they do then in my mind this sets a "benchmark"/target for Emotiva's product line up. Of course I am only comparing the high level Dirac and Atmos specs here (and currently NAD don't yet support DTS:X) so there is still plenty of scope for different capabilities/differences between the two. Hopefully NAD figures out the problems, Arcam never did (and it's not clear if the design is fixable, as the rumor mill has been the upcoming Lexicon units based on the Arcam designs have may the same faults). The T758 V3 also only has one HDMI output, and while the T777 V3 has two, only one is HDMI 2.0a, the other is 1.4. I'd really like to have two 2.0a outputs as my TV has individual picture settings per input, and being able to switch between the outputs would let me save one for movies and another for 4K gaming, as going through the menu to change the settings every time I change a device would be a real PITA. I'm also really leaning towards a processor and separate amps, that way I can invest in some nice amplification and just switch the processor out down the road when it becomes obsolete and still have the amps going on strong. |
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Post by cwt on Jan 13, 2018 1:31:45 GMT -5
I don't see anything Bose-y about the proposed Emersa line. If it supports all of the standards and ends up being able to decode Atmos in 7 channels (which it should, as from what I understand that was the reason for the delay) and can be upgraded to the full version of Dirac, it'll perform just as well as the XMC-1 G3 or RMC-1 for anyone who doesn't need/want more than 5.1.2. Balanced outputs don't matter much if you don't have extremely long cable runs (and the back end that was shown at CES last year showed an XLR sub lead, which is typically the longest cable run in a system), tons of inputs are great if you need/use them, but if you just have a few devices and they're all HDMI, it's a waste. The big 'must haves' for me are HDMI 2.0a/HDCP 2.2 on all HDMI inputs and on both HDMI outputs, upgradeability to the full version of Dirac, and support for at least 2 height channels so I can stick some ceiling reflecting speakers on top of my towers. If it does all of that, I'll be a happy camper. There's nothing else on the market that does that right now. Well said ; It was mentioned by Lonnie that the EMP1 was a XMC1 equivalent ;but some don't need a balanced 2ch input  . The NAD has compromises starting with it being a receiver rather than a pre pro . the EMP1 also has the option of a single power amp that is 125w class d rather than relying on the NAD's 60w internals . Will the NAD be getting anymore upgrade cards after the v3 it has now ? the EMP1 is also modular.. and it has those 2 hdmi outs and probably hdmi2.0b rather than .a if it takes longer. If the RMC1 wasn't imminent the EMP1 would certainly suffice On the question of what board is going in the xmc1 gen 2 overtheair ; its worth digging up the relevant podcast as it was mentioned which board well before the new xmc1 gen3 surfaced .. Ime too lazy  |
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. The NAD has compromises starting with it being a receiver rather than a pre pro . the EMP1 also has the option of a single power amp that is 125w class d rather than relying on the NAD's 60w internals . Will the NAD be getting anymore upgrade cards after the v3 it has now ? the EMP1 is also modular.. and it has those 2 hdmi outs and probably hdmi2.0b rather than .a if it takes longer.
