TA-100 + Magnepan MMG

[TDueck]

Hi,

I have my heart set on a pair of Magnepan MMGs - openness and staging are the top of my list. But I am also aware that they are power-hungry, having 4-ohm impedance. My problem is that I am on a tight budget and I’m not sure if I can supply the power they need on that budget. I’m told the A-300 would drive them just fine at a great price point, but then I also need a DAC for the sources I use. Problem 2: I live in Canada and getting Emotiva gear in my region is considerably more expensive. However, I have found a local seller who has a mint TA-100 for $350 CAD, no shipping, no customs fees, no tax, no need of a DAC. But... can it drive the MMGs to moderate levels (nothing loud for me) without cracking under the strain? Any advice would be much appreciated!

[novisnick]

Welcome. I own a TA-100 and have used it to drive a set of KEF LS 50’s which dip down just under 4 ohm on occasion. The TA drives them well but I wouldn’t try to blow the room out as it may blow the speakers. I have gotten them rather loud. I’m not familiar with the magnepans though.

The TA-100 is a very impressive piece of gear.

This will get you started and listening! If you think you’ll need more power you’ll have time to save for an amp but still enjoy the music in the meantime.

Let us know what you decide! Good luck 😁

[jhob]

You're getting 90 watts at 4ohms. I think it'd drive them just fine, for moderate listening levels. I have a little Sherbourn 2-75b, that powered my Maggie 1.7i's to moderate levels.

[leonski]

More GOOD power is indicated.
Especially if you do a proper setup which means 4' to 5' between speaker and front wall. And modest toe-in.
Experiment, later, with tweeters 'in' or 'out'.

My 'credential', if you will, is I've been a maggie owner for maybe 40 years.

More power is almost NEVER a bad idea. Even with the modest MMG.
All maggies are VERY low sensitivity, but really not a bad load if given sufficient Power.

[vneal]

Maggies are hungry. Feed em

[TDueck]

So two yes and two no. Thanks for the quick replies! I suppose I could go with the TA-100 for now (hard to pass up that price) and then add a power amp in the future if/when I discover it’s needed. Any qualms with that? Quite frankly, I won’t be buying the Maggies in the next few months anyway, so I’ll be running some cheaper bookshelves in the meantime. I just don’t want to put any money down on a component that will be useless to me when I get around to the actual setup I want, regardless of the deal, so your input is much appreciated!

[rbk123]

Long term you won't want the TA-100, so do you want to buy it now, use it for a while and then sell it later? If so, go for it.

[garbulky]

No, don't do it. Look Maggies have some requiremetns. One is tons of space. They like to be way away from the back wall. The other is lots of power (for solid state amps).

[leonski]

The red flag for ME is the 1% power rating @4ohms. This means the power at a more reasonable 0.5% or perhaps lower IS much lower. The 'rated' 90 watts starts dropping. And fast.

Any USED nearly anything else available? You don't have to go wacky, but my experience agrees with common Maggie 'lore' and that more power is better. A pair of the 1L or some of the other amps from the EMO line.
Doesn't have to be EMO, ether. Lots of pre--loved gear can be bought and used for a while and sold at little or no 'out of pocket' net expense.

If you are REALLY curious about Magnepan (I bought the first pair I ever heard) than go to AUDO ASYLUM and look at the Planar board. Or go over to Magnepan Users Group (MUG) and start reading. Dozens of DIY projects listed
along with user systems.

Even TUBES work well with these panels.

PHOTO is of a buddy's CUSTOM MMG panels.   

Attachments:

[creimes]

Jan 16, 2018 12:00:56 GMT -5 TDueck said:

So two yes and two no. Thanks for the quick replies! I suppose I could go with the TA-100 for now (hard to pass up that price) and then add a power amp in the future if/when I discover it’s needed. Any qualms with that? Quite frankly, I won’t be buying the Maggies in the next few months anyway, so I’ll be running some cheaper bookshelves in the meantime. I just don’t want to put any money down on a component that will be useless to me when I get around to the actual setup I want, regardless of the deal, so your input is much appreciated!

Whats nice about the TA-100 is that it has RCA preouts if in the future you would like to add an external power amp, or just from the get go grab a PT-100 and find a used XPA-2 as another option, a bit more money now, but if your not trying to destroy your ears or having parties where its hard to speak to one another the TA-100 will be fine. I owned one for a bit but really couldn't find a good use for it anywhere in my house as I really only have one system as my living room system doesn't need anything new so I sold it to a buddy but I tried it out in my main system powering my left and right Chane towers and it was really great, and I'll think you will be very pleased with it.

Chad

[audiobill]

I drive Maggie 3.6/R speakers with 125 wpc of tube goodness in a 40' x 17' x16' space.

Plenty of volume, no audible distortion.

BTW, they are 40" from the front wall for optimal bass and sounstaging, hardly "way out from the wall".  No more, really, than most other speakers.

Lots of folklore here from non Maggie owners........

[leonski]

The reason for the distance recommendation is not to simply take up more space.

Panels are symmetrical, and out of phase front to rear.   So they emit the same out the back as the front.    

The human ear won't much distinguish sounds less than maybe 10ms or 12ms apart.   They kind of 'blend'.    So the idea is to make the reflected sound from the BACK of
the speaker to the FRONT wall more than about 10ms to 12ms.    This is done with DISTANCE.     It helps.

The other thing Maggies seem to like is front wall Diffusion.   Not absorption, but Diffusion.    Once the backwave is diffused, the image opens up and you seem to reach another level 
of clarity.  

Some other Maggie weirdness?    Cover ONE ear.    Move your open ear to the side of the speaker.   Directly off the edge.    At some point, you'll hear a 'null' in the sound where it substantially
disappears.    This is frontwave / backwave cancelation.    One reason that Maggies CAN work in a narrower room or with walls to the side.   I'd keep it within reason at maybe 30" or so, to start.

Sure, you don't NEED mega power.    The demo / listening system in White Bear Lake has about 30 tube watts per.   And it's fine.     Could you get along with 125 per?    Absolutely.    I don't think
that AudioBill turns it up to Ear Crushing levels.   Maggies don't necessarily do THAT well.    You get into Mylar Slap and such.

And as usual, and usually lost in these kinds of discussions is that Better Watts ARE Better.   I'd use the TA-100 with the LS-50s (good choice, BTW) as TV sound and casual listening.    But, IMO,
it simply lacks the guts for use with Panels.     And it's not the impedance, in this case it is the SENSITIVITY.    Maggies are horrible at turning electricity into sound.    I'd estimate below 1% efficiency.

I had my Original MG-1 panels (maybe late 70s manufacture?) in a GIGANTIC room.   I'd say, from memory, larger than the 11,000 cubic feet of AudioBil's setup.    But I was driving with an insignificantly
higher power, at about 225 a side from a Carver Cube.    It was a full-on 2 story living room.   I put my speakers in FRONT of a door into the dining area.   The backwave disappeared into that room, mostly.
Each speaker had its OWN door, they being about 8' or 10' apart.    But OH!   what a sound.   Pipe Organ, even without the last octave was wonderful.    Rock?   Jazz?  you name it, great.  
This was back in the mid-80s.   When I bought my FIRST CDs, you had a choice of about 3000 of 'em.   

[TDueck]

This has been a very enlightening discussion for me, so thank you again. I am a hi-fi rookie, so I’m just getting my head around the variables that need to be considered. So, to sum up, the TA-100 likely won’t drive the MMGs to appreciable levels without compromising sound quality at least partly because its distortion is too high at 4 ohms, so in order to experience less distortion, less power is available, which is unacceptable for Maggies. By “GOOD” power you mean power with as low THD as possible at 4 ohms, correct? The last consideration I have is whether the TA-100 for $280 US has any value as a pre-amp/DAC or if there are cheaper, better alternatives. Again, my area of the globe seems to have less access to the full variety of equipment, or it’s much more expensive getting it here, so I’m trying to work with equipment that’s readily available. Thanks again for all your help!

[novisnick]

Jan 17, 2018 13:18:49 GMT -5 TDueck said:

This has been a very enlightening discussion for me, so thank you again. I am a hi-fi rookie, so I’m just getting my head around the variables that need to be considered. So, to sum up, the TA-100 likely won’t drive the MMGs to appreciable levels without compromising sound quality at least partly because its distortion is too high at 4 ohms, so in order to experience less distortion, less power is available, which is unacceptable for Maggies. By “GOOD” power you mean power with as low THD as possible at 4 ohms, correct? The last consideration I have is whether the TA-100 for $280 US has any value as a pre-amp/DAC or if there are cheaper, better alternatives. Again, my area of the globe seems to have less access to the full variety of equipment, or it’s much more expensive getting it here, so I’m trying to work with equipment that’s readily available. Thanks again for all your help!

You can go with a seperate amp of your choice, Emotiva has a great selection, but the TA-100is a really great sounding Preamp for the money. The DAC revials many higher costing DACs and the versatility of this two channel is outstanding.

the PT-100 has no amp section and the TA-100 has an anp as well as a 1 pair – main line level output; stereo, unbalanced.

[leonski]

Even the A-150 would be about 3db greater power than the TA while the A-300 would probably ROCK with the small panels.

A good PRE amp, but without DAC or Bass Management would be an old Parasound P3.
The P3 I see on Audiogon is a little rich @500$, but might be a better deal elsewhere.