|
Post by foggy1956 on Jan 23, 2018 12:26:35 GMT -5
i bet Keith could dig up an answer and make all of our conjectures moot but he's gone dark again
|
|
|
Post by Casey Leedom on Jan 23, 2018 12:27:18 GMT -5
He does have a Day Job after all ... :-)
Casey
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,181
|
Post by geebo on Jan 23, 2018 12:33:17 GMT -5
I'd say it's very close to being down 3dB at 240Hz with a 12dB/octave slope. Wouldn't you? just a guess but looks like anything beyond about 170hz has anything to do with actual lfe signal The point is there is no sign of a 110Hz low pass. Maybe ansat can chime in here.
|
|
|
Post by foggy1956 on Jan 23, 2018 12:44:42 GMT -5
He does have a Day Job after all ... :-) Casey he does and as hard as it is to believe, I have actually seen him active here during those hours
|
|
|
Post by markymiles on Jan 24, 2018 3:01:13 GMT -5
Grabbed the first reading I could come across from imageshack. Unfortunately don't have an account anymore so can't show an image with a 110hz LPF target line as well, but it pretty much follows the roll off perfectly.
|
|
|
Post by foggy1956 on Jan 24, 2018 9:19:24 GMT -5
Grabbed the first reading I could come across from imageshack. Unfortunately don't have an account anymore so can't show an image with a 110hz LPF target line as well, but it pretty much follows the roll off perfectly. Wonder if Geebo found his?
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,181
|
Post by geebo on Jan 24, 2018 10:15:12 GMT -5
Grabbed the first reading I could come across from imageshack. Unfortunately don't have an account anymore so can't show an image with a 110hz LPF target line as well, but it pretty much follows the roll off perfectly. Wonder if Geebo found his? I did, but all of them are influenced by the 150Hz 36dB/octave low pass crossover I have coded in the Minidsp that all traces went through. But the traces run by ansat are very telling IMO. All effects of mic, speaker and room are eliminated. And I have to wonder what the natural roloff of those 18" subs is.
|
|
|
Post by foggy1956 on Jan 24, 2018 10:34:44 GMT -5
Wonder if Geebo found his? I did, but all of them are influenced by the 150Hz 36dB/octave low pass crossover I have coded in the Minidsp that all traces went through. But the traces run by ansat are very telling IMO. All effects of mic, speaker and room are eliminated. And I have to wonder what the natural roloff of those 18" subs is. I didn't save my traces but I'll run a fresh one with the minidsp disabled and non dirac and see what mine looks like, will report back
|
|
|
Post by goozoo on Jan 24, 2018 16:55:59 GMT -5
I've had an XMC-1 for quite awhile now. I upgraded to dual subs since xmas, SVS SB16 Ultra's. I don't understand why, under Setup/Speakers/Preset and Dirac/Size, there's not and 'OFF' option for the 'Low Pass Slope'. I have all the control of LPFreq as well as LPSlope in the SB16's setup options. It's having the LFE signal go thru 2 Low Pass Slopes no? One from the XMC-1 and one from the SB16? And 12 and 24dB slope option from the XMC-1 and fully adjustable slopes from the subs. I have all my speakers set at Large and will be using Dirac when I get a chance. I feel like I should understand this but...lol I appreciate the help guys, Thanks, Fore The 12 or 24 dB/Fs option has more to do with how gradual of a slope you want for the roll off. That's it. If you are running DIRAC, then there is no need to utilize the DSP features in the sub as it has already been taken care of. Set it at 12 dB/Fs and be done with it. The bigger limitation that you have is that you are not using an outboard DSP to manage the subs properly. No room correction software, DIRAC included, can manage multiple subs properly and instead you get a flat response without taking into effect the phase, distances, levels, etc needed to compensate for their placement. Having owned Ultra 16s, there's a lot more there than you have tapped. I would recommend getting a miniDSP 2x4HD and learning how to use Multi Sub Optimizer software PRIOR to running DIRAC. Additionally, I would recommend summing the signal prior to any frequency manipulation.
|
|
|
Post by ansat on Jan 24, 2018 20:00:54 GMT -5
just a guess but looks like anything beyond about 170hz has anything to do with actual lfe signal The point is there is no sign of a 110Hz low pass. Maybe ansat can chime in here. Reading, trying to get caught up. Edit: I could not find any of my testing of the changing the crossover, I only found my original files for testing the crossover gain and its impact on the actual crossover point. Sorry -- no help here. Edit: I might be able to clear at least one part up, I do have proof of at least 120hz xover, so 110 cannot be true. Attached. Note that there is a 1.3 db offset to the sub to make up for the difference of 1.3 Db in the measurements. (spl at the bottom) T T Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by ansat on Jan 24, 2018 20:40:38 GMT -5
I've had an XMC-1 for quite awhile now. I upgraded to dual subs since xmas, SVS SB16 Ultra's. I don't understand why, under Setup/Speakers/Preset and Dirac/Size, there's not and 'OFF' option for the 'Low Pass Slope'. I have all the control of LPFreq as well as LPSlope in the SB16's setup options. It's having the LFE signal go thru 2 Low Pass Slopes no? One from the XMC-1 and one from the SB16? And 12 and 24dB slope option from the XMC-1 and fully adjustable slopes from the subs. I have all my speakers set at Large and will be using Dirac when I get a chance. I feel like I should understand this but...lol I appreciate the help guys, Thanks, Fore The 12 or 24 dB/Fs option has more to do with how gradual of a slope you want for the roll off. That's it. If you are running DIRAC, then there is no need to utilize the DSP features in the sub as it has already been taken care of. Set it at 12 dB/Fs and be done with it. The bigger limitation that you have is that you are not using an outboard DSP to manage the subs properly. No room correction software, DIRAC included, can manage multiple subs properly and instead you get a flat response without taking into effect the phase, distances, levels, etc needed to compensate for their placement. Having owned Ultra 16s, there's a lot more there than you have tapped. I would recommend getting a miniDSP 2x4HD and learning how to use Multi Sub Optimizer software PRIOR to running DIRAC. Additionally, I would recommend summing the signal prior to any frequency manipulation. I am in agreement here with one change, Since the subs have DSP, you should not need a minidsp, Eq the subs to each other to get the best possible gain across the widest frequency (using the subs eq) Then set the XMC to single sub, and have dirac take care of the rest. T
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,181
|
Post by geebo on Jan 24, 2018 20:46:25 GMT -5
The point is there is no sign of a 110Hz low pass. Maybe ansat can chime in here. Reading, trying to get caught up. Edit: I could not find any of my testing of the changing the crossover, I only found my original files for testing the crossover gain and its impact on the actual crossover point. Sorry -- no help here. Edit: I might be able to clear at least one part up, I do have proof of at least 120hz xover, so 110 cannot be true. Attached. Note that there is a 1.3 db offset to the sub to make up for the difference of 1.3 Db in the measurements. (spl at the bottom) T T Thanks, Tony. Is this trace, which I pulled from an earlier post of yours, showing the LFE output in the top blue trace?
|
|
|
Post by ansat on Jan 24, 2018 21:02:31 GMT -5
Reading, trying to get caught up. Edit: I could not find any of my testing of the changing the crossover, I only found my original files for testing the crossover gain and its impact on the actual crossover point. Sorry -- no help here. Edit: I might be able to clear at least one part up, I do have proof of at least 120hz xover, so 110 cannot be true. Attached. Note that there is a 1.3 db offset to the sub to make up for the difference of 1.3 Db in the measurements. (spl at the bottom) T T Thanks, Tony. Is this trace, which I pulled from an earlier post of yours, showing the LFE output in the top blue trace? Yes, but, this image has some issues as well. Looking at my notes, that was an 80hz x-over that produced one of the measurements, the sub looks like it was at 120 (where I usually keep it). This is the dangers of playing with the gain. When you add gain to the sub, you shift the x-over point to the right. Gain to speaker shifts the xover point to the left. When you play with a lot of gain, you can take a 120hz over and make it look like a 500 Attached is something that illustrates this better, but without different xover points. T Attachments:
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,181
|
Post by geebo on Jan 24, 2018 21:20:52 GMT -5
Thanks, Tony. Is this trace, which I pulled from an earlier post of yours, showing the LFE output in the top blue trace? Yes, but, this image has some issues as well. Looking at my notes, that was an 80hz x-over that produced one of the measurements, the sub looks like it was at 120 (where I usually keep it). This is the dangers of playing with the gain. When you add gain to the sub, you shift the x-over point to the right. Gain to speaker shifts the xover point to the left. When you play with a lot of gain, you can take a 120hz over and make it look like a 500 Attached is something that illustrates this better, but without different xover points. T Thanks again. But it still looks like the low pass built in to the XMC is higher than 110Hz. Would you agree?
|
|
|
Post by ansat on Jan 24, 2018 22:32:03 GMT -5
Yes, but, this image has some issues as well. Looking at my notes, that was an 80hz x-over that produced one of the measurements, the sub looks like it was at 120 (where I usually keep it). This is the dangers of playing with the gain. When you add gain to the sub, you shift the x-over point to the right. Gain to speaker shifts the xover point to the left. When you play with a lot of gain, you can take a 120hz over and make it look like a 500 Attached is something that illustrates this better, but without different xover points. T Thanks again. But it still looks like the low pass built in to the XMC is higher than 110Hz. Would you agree? Correct. I have at least 120 out of the xmc. T
|
|
|
Post by markymiles on Jan 25, 2018 2:38:28 GMT -5
I did say around 110hz. It was 110hz that was originally bandied around when Keith was asked the question a long time ago . Could easily be 120 too, they are pretty close . The point being it most definitely is not 250hz as was mentioned at the beginning of this thread. Next time I get my REW stuff out I'll be able to measure exactly what it is if anyone is interested. Easy with an inuke to do a 110/120hz LPF with the sub connected to one of the LCR for instance run full range and then compare to the LFE. Obviously with Dirac off.
|
|
|
Post by markymiles on Jan 25, 2018 4:35:19 GMT -5
Curiosity got the better off me. 1:1 smoothing to make it easier to see. In case it's difficult to read, the two traces that are identical are the full range signal (main channel output to sub) with LR24 120hz LPF on inuke and the LFE channel with the XMC LPF. At least that puts it to bed, it's a 120hz LPF.
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,181
|
Post by geebo on Jan 25, 2018 7:52:57 GMT -5
Curiosity got the better off me. 1:1 smoothing to make it easier to see. In case it's difficult to read, the two traces that are identical are the full range signal (main channel output to sub) with LR24 120hz LPF on inuke and the LFE channel with the XMC LPF. At least that puts it to bed, it's a 120hz LPF. That looks to be 6dB down at 100Hz. A 3dB down point looks to be at 72Hz. What is the response of your 18's? I wonder if foggy1956 ran a test. Perhaps it is 120Hz and I have room influence giving me boosted output at 150.
|
|
|
Post by foggy1956 on Jan 25, 2018 9:10:40 GMT -5
Curiosity got the better off me. 1:1 smoothing to make it easier to see. In case it's difficult to read, the two traces that are identical are the full range signal (main channel output to sub) with LR24 120hz LPF on inuke and the LFE channel with the XMC LPF. At least that puts it to bed, it's a 120hz LPF. That looks to be 6dB down at 100Hz. A 3dB down point looks to be at 72Hz. What is the response of your 18's? I wonder if foggy1956 ran a test. Perhaps it is 120Hz and I have room influence giving me boosted output at 150. Sorry guys, attempted to yesterday, ran into a bad sub cable and got side tracked
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,181
|
Post by geebo on Jan 25, 2018 9:28:22 GMT -5
That looks to be 6dB down at 100Hz. A 3dB down point looks to be at 72Hz. What is the response of your 18's? I wonder if foggy1956 ran a test. Perhaps it is 120Hz and I have room influence giving me boosted output at 150. Sorry guys, attempted to yesterday, ran into a bad sub cable and got side tracked DooDoo happens...
|
|