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Post by rogersch on Jan 30, 2018 8:16:53 GMT -5
Well I fully agree with the OP. Boot time of around 35 seconds is rather long and it would be great if this could be reduced (maybe the new main board could address this?). However claiming there is a stand-by option with consumes 30 watts continously i ridiculus for an AVR.
When I'm going to replace my XMC-1 (hopefully not soon) one of my evaluation criteria will be or a low power stand-by option (like <4 watts) or a relatively fast boot time (<15 seconds) after full power down. .
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 30, 2018 9:25:20 GMT -5
Yes, yes, 30 seconds isn’t a big deal. But in the era of instant on PCs and other electronics, with all due respect, this just seems like an issue that doesn’t have to exist. It’s not 1980. I’m not waiting for my IBM XT to boot up and do checksums on 128 kB of ram. It’s 2018. I just timed my phone and it took 48 seconds to fully boot up. I mean this is 2018 after all and my phone is even newer tech than the XMC. This whole argument is dumb - the chips used in the XMC aren't the fastest. Just like my phone, I can get one that will boot up faster but then I'll complain about paying more. Emo could use faster chips to decrease the boot time but then I guarantee people, including me, would whine at the price increase that will entail. Of course people think they should get something that boots up instantly for no price increase since they're already shelling out $2.5k. It should always be on someone else's dime, never on their own.
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Post by rogersch on Jan 30, 2018 14:15:04 GMT -5
I just timed my phone and it took 48 seconds to fully boot up. I mean this is 2018 after all and my phone is even newer tech than the XMC. Well your phone is not consuming 30 watts while in stand-by modus...
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jan 30, 2018 14:28:20 GMT -5
I just timed my phone and it took 48 seconds to fully boot up. I mean this is 2018 after all and my phone is even newer tech than the XMC. Well your phone is not consuming 30 watts while in stand-by modus... 30 watts seems high. But it does keep the video pass through active. Has anyone checked it with a Kill-a-Watt meter?
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alee
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Post by alee on Jan 30, 2018 14:58:26 GMT -5
I'm going through it now. But let's be honest, and not make the XMC-1 to be a complex supercomputer with 1000s of interconnected parts. The "Linux processor" is a CPU. The DSPs are no different from any variety of IO chips on a motherboard or peripheral card (video, networking, etc.) in your PC and I'm betting they don't have a separate boot procedure. Demystify the system and it is merely a *specialized computer*. As such, the delay in boot time is due to either the BIOS or in loading the Linux kernel. If it's the BIOS, there's not much that can be done. But if it's the Linux kernel, then it's coming down to the processor (can it be replaced?), system memory, or the mounted space. I've got my XMC-1 in the office and I'll get access to the boot process soon.
Yes, yes. How dare I complain about such an annoying thing such as boot times! But in my house, I have a wife and children who want to watch Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood. And waiting 45 seconds for the XMC-1 to boot (it's not 30 seconds, sorry, I timed it last night, it's closer to 45 seconds to where it can accept any input) and switch inputs (from my Xbox/bluray drive to the Tivo) drives the wife nuts...especially since input changes can't be done until after the system is on. You can take shots at such a "trivial" concern, but for some of us out here, practical concerns emerge from long boot up times.
But as I said, I'll break it down and get folks the data. There are others who have indicated some interest in speeding up the boot process. And if you want to change the LEDs, that's a piece of cake if you have a soldering iron.
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Post by kybourbon on Jan 30, 2018 15:03:24 GMT -5
I'm going through it now. But let's be honest, and not make the XMC-1 to be a complex supercomputer with 1000s of interconnected parts. The "Linux processor" is a CPU. The DSPs are no different from any variety of IO chips on a motherboard or peripheral card (video, networking, etc.) in your PC and I'm betting they don't have a separate boot procedure. Demystify the system and it is merely a *specialized computer*. As such, the delay in boot time is due to either the BIOS or in loading the Linux kernel. If it's the BIOS, there's not much that can be done. But if it's the Linux kernel, then it's coming down to the processor (can it be replaced?), system memory, or the mounted space. I've got my XMC-1 in the office and I'll get access to the boot process soon. Yes, yes. How dare I complain about such an annoying thing such as boot times! But in my house, I have a wife and children who want to watch Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood. And waiting 45 seconds for the XMC-1 to boot (it's not 30 seconds, sorry, I timed it last night, it's closer to 45 seconds to where it can accept any input) and switch inputs (from my Xbox/bluray drive to the Tivo) drives the wife nuts...especially since input changes can't be done until after the system is on. You can take shots at such a "trivial" concern, but for some of us out here, practical concerns emerge from long boot up times. But as I said, I'll break it down and get folks the data. There are others who have indicated some interest in speeding up the boot process. And if you want to change the LEDs, that's a piece of cake if you have a soldering iron. Who do you need the XMC-1 to watch Daniel Tiger's neighborhood? Can't you just turn on the TV and turn the volume up on the TV itself?
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alee
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Post by alee on Jan 30, 2018 15:04:02 GMT -5
Yes, yes, 30 seconds isn’t a big deal. But in the era of instant on PCs and other electronics, with all due respect, this just seems like an issue that doesn’t have to exist. It’s not 1980. I’m not waiting for my IBM XT to boot up and do checksums on 128 kB of ram. It’s 2018. I just timed my phone and it took 48 seconds to fully boot up. I mean this is 2018 after all and my phone is even newer tech than the XMC. This whole argument is dumb - the chips used in the XMC aren't the fastest. Just like my phone, I can get one that will boot up faster but then I'll complain about paying more. Emo could use faster chips to decrease the boot time but then I guarantee people, including me, would whine at the price increase that will entail. Of course people think they should get something that boots up instantly for no price increase since they're already shelling out $2.5k. It should always be on someone else's dime, never on their own. It's never been a question of paying more money. I'm happy to pay to tweak and speed up the system. The question is, why is it so hard to get the information needed for me to play with a device that *I own*. When I upgraded my PCs in the past, I paid for new motherboards, CPUs, RAM, etc., and I was happy to do it. The more you know about the system that you own, the easier it is to repair it, or even enhance it. The more you play with it, the more you understand it. It's the same reason people put SDDs in their Xboxes or PS4s. Noone needs to do it, but it makes things run a little smoother and makes me happier. Let me have the same privilege for a $2500 device that I have on my $200 ones.
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alee
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Post by alee on Jan 30, 2018 15:10:15 GMT -5
I'm going through it now. But let's be honest, and not make the XMC-1 to be a complex supercomputer with 1000s of interconnected parts. The "Linux processor" is a CPU. The DSPs are no different from any variety of IO chips on a motherboard or peripheral card (video, networking, etc.) in your PC and I'm betting they don't have a separate boot procedure. Demystify the system and it is merely a *specialized computer*. As such, the delay in boot time is due to either the BIOS or in loading the Linux kernel. If it's the BIOS, there's not much that can be done. But if it's the Linux kernel, then it's coming down to the processor (can it be replaced?), system memory, or the mounted space. I've got my XMC-1 in the office and I'll get access to the boot process soon. Yes, yes. How dare I complain about such an annoying thing such as boot times! But in my house, I have a wife and children who want to watch Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood. And waiting 45 seconds for the XMC-1 to boot (it's not 30 seconds, sorry, I timed it last night, it's closer to 45 seconds to where it can accept any input) and switch inputs (from my Xbox/bluray drive to the Tivo) drives the wife nuts...especially since input changes can't be done until after the system is on. You can take shots at such a "trivial" concern, but for some of us out here, practical concerns emerge from long boot up times. But as I said, I'll break it down and get folks the data. There are others who have indicated some interest in speeding up the boot process. And if you want to change the LEDs, that's a piece of cake if you have a soldering iron. Who do you need the XMC-1 to watch Daniel Tiger's neighborhood? Can't you just turn on the TV and turn the volume up on the TV itself? Just like most users, I have the HDMI from my Tivo Bolt going to the XMC-1 and then going to the TV. I use the TIVO for Netflix as well as cable TV. The XMC decodes audio, and as such, the TV speakers are off, and the XMC is doing audio. You want me to reenable the TV speakers when I'm watching TV shows - which is not a one button press, that involves going through menus and settings - then turning those speakers off when I want to watch movies with surround. Ok. Yeah, that sounds reasonable. /s
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Post by flamingeye on Jan 30, 2018 15:21:08 GMT -5
I just timed my phone and it took 48 seconds to fully boot up. I mean this is 2018 after all and my phone is even newer tech than the XMC. This whole argument is dumb - the chips used in the XMC aren't the fastest. Just like my phone, I can get one that will boot up faster but then I'll complain about paying more. Emo could use faster chips to decrease the boot time but then I guarantee people, including me, would whine at the price increase that will entail. Of course people think they should get something that boots up instantly for no price increase since they're already shelling out $2.5k. It should always be on someone else's dime, never on their own. It's never been a question of paying more money. I'm happy to pay to tweak and speed up the system. The question is, why is it so hard to get the information needed for me to play with a device that *I own*. When I upgraded my PCs in the past, I paid for new motherboards, CPUs, RAM, etc., and I was happy to do it. The more you know about the system that you own, the easier it is to repair it, or even enhance it. The more you play with it, the more you understand it. It's the same reason people put SDDs in their Xboxes or PS4s. Noone needs to do it, but it makes things run a little smoother and makes me happier. Let me have the same privilege for a $2500 device that I have on my $200 ones. if money is not the problem then the 30watts shouldn't be ether so why not set it to standby and shorten the boot up
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Jan 30, 2018 15:23:31 GMT -5
Who do you need the XMC-1 to watch Daniel Tiger's neighborhood? Can't you just turn on the TV and turn the volume up on the TV itself? Just like most users, I have the HDMI from my Tivo Bolt going to the XMC-1 and then going to the TV. I use the TIVO for Netflix as well as cable TV. The XMC decodes audio, and as such, the TV speakers are off, and the XMC is doing audio. You want me to reenable the TV speakers when I'm watching TV shows - which is not a one button press, that involves going through menus and settings - then turning those speakers off when I want to watch movies with surround. Ok. Yeah, that sounds reasonable. /s Actually, I use a TiVo as well connected to my Yamaha( XMC-1 while I owned it) and this all works so easily. I believe you have your setup wrong. When I want to use just my tv via cable box/ TiVo without the surround system the tv speakers are muted and the surround system is engaged. Respectfully, I think you need to look at your settings Also, this is a friendly forum, I really don’t think you needed to add your last sentence but I’m not a forum cop, just somebody hoping to help. EDIT; if you’d add all of your gear as a signature or at least the tv make and model we should be able to walk toy through it. 😁 and yes, the XMC-1 would need to be in standby, that dang nasty 30 watts, no cake to eat here
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Post by kybourbon on Jan 30, 2018 16:00:48 GMT -5
Who do you need the XMC-1 to watch Daniel Tiger's neighborhood? Can't you just turn on the TV and turn the volume up on the TV itself? Just like most users, I have the HDMI from my Tivo Bolt going to the XMC-1 and then going to the TV. I use the TIVO for Netflix as well as cable TV. The XMC decodes audio, and as such, the TV speakers are off, and the XMC is doing audio. You want me to reenable the TV speakers when I'm watching TV shows - which is not a one button press, that involves going through menus and settings - then turning those speakers off when I want to watch movies with surround. Ok. Yeah, that sounds reasonable. /s Looks like the Tivo Bolt has lots of audio outs. Lots of different ways you can do this. You could also get a HDMI splitter and run one to the XMC-1 and one to the TV. Then you don't need to even turn on the XMC-1 if you don't want to (saves you wear and tear on the XMC-1 as well while the wife and kids watch Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood). Lots of ways around this actually.
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Post by monkumonku on Jan 30, 2018 18:41:41 GMT -5
It's never been a question of paying more money. I'm happy to pay to tweak and speed up the system. The question is, why is it so hard to get the information needed for me to play with a device that *I own*. When I upgraded my PCs in the past, I paid for new motherboards, CPUs, RAM, etc., and I was happy to do it. The more you know about the system that you own, the easier it is to repair it, or even enhance it. The more you play with it, the more you understand it. It's the same reason people put SDDs in their Xboxes or PS4s. Noone needs to do it, but it makes things run a little smoother and makes me happier. Let me have the same privilege for a $2500 device that I have on my $200 ones. The reason why it is so hard to get the information is because playing with the innards of the device isn't what the manufacturer intended and would void the warranty as well as expose people who didn't know what they were doing to possible hazards and injury. And there's no way for a manufacturer to determine if the people they are selling to are competent to be working under the hood.
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 30, 2018 19:44:21 GMT -5
It's never been a question of paying more money. Sure it isn't... Apples and oranges. The PC is an open standard architecture platform; the XMC is a closed proprietary platform. Good luck upgrading your CPU, motherboard on a Mac, Xbox, PS4, Cable box, Oppo, phone, you name it. The XMC has never been promoted as an open platform and if you bought it thinking it should be, than that's your own fault. Go research every other processor out there and come back and tell us how many of those you can upgrade the CPU, motherboard, RAM, etc... We'll sit here and wait patiently for your answer. Other device timings: - DVR - 10 seconds - remote cable box for DVR - 20 seconds - Amazon Echo Dot - 57 seconds - - Router - 43 seconds - PS3 - 27 seconds Should I complain and ask these manufacturers open their system and allow me to upgrade parts to make them faster? Not only is that laughable but saying this is the age of instant-on is nothing more than urban myth/hyperbole.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jan 31, 2018 11:04:57 GMT -5
As noted, the XMC-1 is NOT "open architecture"... Also, simply put, if we let you modify it, then there's a very good chance it would end up not working... And you'd be really unhappy when we told you that you'd voided your warranty so, not only don't we know why it stopped working, but we aren't going to fix it for you. I would also add a few more devices to that list...... Both my cable box and my cable modem take SEVERAL MINUTES to reboot if you turn them all the way off. My cable box seems to typically take between three and five minutes for a full reboot - which is why I never turn it off. And many routers take several minutes to wake up from being turned fully off (note that most "big" network equipment is designed to run 24/7). And those devices aren't sitting in Standby; they have lives of their own, and do their own updates and adjustments whenever the mood strikes them. Note that we do actually offer you the option of using low-power standby and waiting, or using high-power standby and NOT waiting. And, if it makes you feel greener, remember that, during months where the heat is on, any power your equipment wastes ends up as heat, and so gets subtracted from your heating footprint (and your heating bill) It's never been a question of paying more money. Sure it isn't... Apples and oranges. The PC is an open standard architecture platform; the XMC is a closed proprietary platform. Good luck upgrading your CPU, motherboard on a Mac, Xbox, PS4, Cable box, Oppo, phone, you name it. The XMC has never been promoted as an open platform and if you bought it thinking it should be, than that's your own fault. Go research every other processor out there and come back and tell us how many of those you can upgrade the CPU, motherboard, RAM, etc... We'll sit here and wait patiently for your answer. Other device timings: - DVR - 10 seconds - remote cable box for DVR - 20 seconds - Amazon Echo Dot - 57 seconds - - Router - 43 seconds - PS3 - 27 seconds Should I complain and ask these manufacturers open their system and allow me to upgrade parts to make them faster? Not only is that laughable but saying this is the age of instant-on is nothing more than urban myth/hyperbole.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jan 31, 2018 11:18:04 GMT -5
I'm going to make one final comment on this subject.... at least for now. There is a lot going on inside a processor... and some of that includes hardware and processes that actually do take a few seconds "to settle down and stabilize". That said, while we don't (and will not) help you figure out how to modify your XMC-1, other than to install hardware updates WE issue to you, we also don't sand the numbers off any of the chips we use. So, feel free to buy an XMC-1, take it apart, and build your own processor out of the pieces... but good luck getting it to work properly once you start changing stuff. Also note that, while the code running on our boards is proprietary, and we won't let you have the source code, the guys who made the motherboard in your computer probably won't share their BIOS code either - for the same reasons. (And I'm guessing they won't be especially cooperative if you start asking about unsoldering and replacing chips on that motherboard either.) AND, OF COURSE, IF YOU DECIDE TO TAKE A SOLDERING IRON TO YOUR XMC-1, YOU WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY VOID YOUR WARRANTY.
I should also point out that we DO have two upgrades on the way for your XMC-1..... The HDMI v3 4k video board, and the new Dolby Atmos decoder processing option.....
I just timed my phone and it took 48 seconds to fully boot up. I mean this is 2018 after all and my phone is even newer tech than the XMC. This whole argument is dumb - the chips used in the XMC aren't the fastest. Just like my phone, I can get one that will boot up faster but then I'll complain about paying more. Emo could use faster chips to decrease the boot time but then I guarantee people, including me, would whine at the price increase that will entail. Of course people think they should get something that boots up instantly for no price increase since they're already shelling out $2.5k. It should always be on someone else's dime, never on their own. It's never been a question of paying more money. I'm happy to pay to tweak and speed up the system. The question is, why is it so hard to get the information needed for me to play with a device that *I own*. When I upgraded my PCs in the past, I paid for new motherboards, CPUs, RAM, etc., and I was happy to do it. The more you know about the system that you own, the easier it is to repair it, or even enhance it. The more you play with it, the more you understand it. It's the same reason people put SDDs in their Xboxes or PS4s. Noone needs to do it, but it makes things run a little smoother and makes me happier. Let me have the same privilege for a $2500 device that I have on my $200 ones.
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Post by garbulky on Jan 31, 2018 18:21:51 GMT -5
Both sides of this thread gave me a headache. FWIW, I sympathithize with long wait times and with a family it does make a difference. I have a slow "smart" blu ray player and it's wait times were a real PITA with family. To the OP, you are confusing these processors with computers. Whereas a computer is designed to be sped up by the user using upgrades and tweaking stuff, the processors out there are decidedly not designed the same way. Not saying it's impossible, but uh yeah, it's near impossible.
You pay for a product and it's delivered to you and it works as specified. That's as far as their commitment to you other than to deliver upgrades for functionality.
If it was me, I would just keep it on standby, 30 watts is half an incandescent bulb. Guess how much power your tv uses! But, that's me and it sure doesn't solve your issue of using power. Imo there is no solution for you but to deal.
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Post by audiosyndrome on Jan 31, 2018 20:45:07 GMT -5
Let’s see. 30 watts, 24 hours a day, 365 days per year equates to about 260 kilowatts. That equates to, here in NY at 15 cents per kilowatt hour (welcome to NY, bend over) $39.
So leave the unit in high power standby, buy two less blurays a year and the family will love you.
Russ
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jan 31, 2018 21:05:04 GMT -5
aleerogersch threw out 30 watts consumption on standby mode, but the Emotiva website says: It seems that leaving it in standby mode is quite negligible in power consumption. And, if you think that's too much 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, then wake up before your wife and child and turn the unit from off to standby. Then when the kiddo who wants to watch his TV show goes to bed, turn it off. If that's not good enough - then go find something else that meets your needs. Mark
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Post by kybourbon on Jan 31, 2018 21:07:35 GMT -5
aleerogersch threw out 30 watts consumption on standby mode, but the Emotiva website says: It seems that leaving it in standby mode is quite negligible in power consumption. And, if you think that's too much 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, then wake up before your wife and child and turn the unit from off to standby. Then when the kiddo who wants to watch his TV show goes to bed, turn it off. If that's not good enough - then go find something else that meets your needs. Mark Does no one like my HDMI splitter idea? I think that's the perfect solution for him.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jan 31, 2018 21:14:20 GMT -5
aleerogersch threw out 30 watts consumption on standby mode, but the Emotiva website says: It seems that leaving it in standby mode is quite negligible in power consumption. And, if you think that's too much 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, then wake up before your wife and child and turn the unit from off to standby. Then when the kiddo who wants to watch his TV show goes to bed, turn it off. If that's not good enough - then go find something else that meets your needs. Mark Does no one like my HDMI splitter idea? I think that's the perfect solution for him. Perfectly reasonable suggestion, as are those of many others. Not sure the OP is looking for such things, though. He seems set on trying to find a way to modify his XMC. If it were me, I'd spend my time in other ways. Mark
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