KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,902
|
Post by KeithL on Feb 12, 2018 10:35:26 GMT -5
I've used a lot of ripping programs over the years - and, for my money, dBPowerAmp is far and away the best. mountain - it's "meta" data you really should rip your CDs to FLAC. dbPoweramp is your friend.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,902
|
Post by KeithL on Feb 12, 2018 10:59:16 GMT -5
Yikes...... "Awesome" is not the word I'd use for all that signal modification stuff. I went to a bit of trouble to ensure that, when my system plays a file, not a single bit is altered between the file on the disc and the input of the DAC. You do provide an interesting example of how we each have very different goals and criteria for what we want a program to do. I look at that and I see a LIST of ways in which Roon has MESSED WITH with the music between the file I gave it and when I got to hear it. After all, each of those conversions has altered the content in some way, and any of those changes MIGHT be audible. (I doubt that they're really doing three separate conversions there.... it would be absurd to NOT make the conversion in a single step to minimize the side effects and potential for something to go wrong.) What I personally would be looking for would be an absolute assurance that my file was arriving at the DAC with NO conversions of any kind being done to it... or as close as possible to that goal. So..... the ability to shut all that stuff off and "just provide a bit-perfect transport from the source file to the DAC". I usually don't bother with supporting DSD at the DAC, so I manually convert any DSD files I get to FLAC right up front. Other than that I, my primary requirement is for every bit in the original file to be delivered to the DAC without any conversions or modifications. I also interpret wilburthegoose's sentence as "unless you see the purple light then it isn't working right". In that context, seeing that light would be a nice reassurance, but I'd better not FAIL to see it more than occasionally, or there's a serious problem with the system. Of course, we're all taking it on faith that the content on that CD, or in that MQA file, is what it should be..... but we can take steps to make sure it doesn't get changed after that. One hint - you should always strive to see that beautiful purple light icon - shows that the audio is as pure as it can be Yes!!! I figured that out. Pretty awesome the things that Roon is doing in the background to my files.
|
|
DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,333
|
Post by DYohn on Feb 12, 2018 11:03:38 GMT -5
Keith I don't know what agenda you have against Roon but you obviously have one. I suggest you either try it or stop trying to tear it down. If you've tried it and don't like it fine, but if you're just tossing our negativity because you have some agenda, it's really tiresome. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by kybourbon on Feb 12, 2018 11:05:20 GMT -5
Yikes...... ("awesome" is not the word I'd use for all that busy-busy signal modification stuff). You provide an interesting example of how we each have very different goals and criteria for what we want a program to do. I look at that and I see a LIST of ways in which Roon has MESSED WITH with the music between the file I gave it and when I got to hear it. (After all, each of those conversions has changed the content, and any of those changes MIGHT be audible.) (I doubt that they're really doing three separate conversions there.... it would be absurd to NOT make the conversion in a single step to minimize the side effects and potential for something to go wrong.) What I personally would be looking for would be an absolute assurance that my file was arriving at the DAC with NO conversions of any kind being done to it... or as close as possible to that goal. I usually don't bother with supporting DSD at the DAC, so I manually convert any DSD files I get to FLAC right up front. Other than that I, my primary requirement is for every bit in the original file to be delivered to the DAC without any conversions or modifications. I also interpret wilburthegoose's sentence as "unless you see the purple light then it isn't working right". In that context, seeing that light would be a nice reassurance, but I'd better not FAIL to see it more than occasionally, or there's a serious problem with the system. Yes!!! I figured that out. Pretty awesome the things that Roon is doing in the background to my files. Keith --- Some of these files are SACD files stored on my NAS that have to be converted. This isn't going on with "regular" FLAC files from my NAS. FYI I also have J.River and its doing the same thing in the background. With Tidal there isn't as much going on. I will try to post a screenshot of that as well.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,902
|
Post by KeithL on Feb 12, 2018 11:54:14 GMT -5
To be totally candid, I have no agenda AGAINST Roon. In fact, in case there was any doubt...... From everything I've heard about it, Roon is probably the best product of its type currently available, and I've actually recommended it to people who value the features it has to offer (I've recommended they check it out for themselves). I have several friends who have tried and liked it - and at least one who is a lifetime subscriber.
However, MY " base requirement", which hardly seems to rise to the level of an agenda, is simply that I be able to get the files I want to listen to from my hard drive to my DAC without a single bit being changed along the way. I can get that functionality from Volumio, running on a Raspberry Pi, with a $10 USB cable, as a local music player. I can also get it for free from Foobar2000 running on a Windows computer. To be totally candid, I suspect that Roon can probably be configured to disable all the extra options, and simply deliver music in bit-perfect fashion. If not, then that would be "a complete deal breaker", and there are no other features that could possibly compensate for that lack. To be quite blunt, and this is my problem with DLNA: If you cannot assure me that your product can deliver digital audio to my DAC in bit-perfect fashion, then I will not consider using it... at all, no matter what, no matter how well it does something else.As I said, I suspect Roon actually can do this...... so that probably does NOT apply to Roon. However, and I will offer a mea culpa that I was poking a bit of fun.... On the one hand, if you actually have a DSDx2 file you want to play, and your DAC doesn't support DSDx2, then I guess the fact that Roon did the conversion automatically is cool. (And, to be totally candid, I'll bet they didn't actually perform three separate conversions, which would be really bad, but were simply breaking them out functionally....) However, on the other hand, it would have been a lot cooler if none of those steps had needed to be performed. (And, personally, I would find it totally UNACCEPTABLE for a program to do stuff like that in the background without warning me.) Keith I don't know what agenda you have against Roon but you obviously have one. I suggest you either try it or stop trying to tear it down. If you've tried it and don't like it fine, but if you're just tossing our negativity because you have some agenda, it's really tiresome. Thanks.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,902
|
Post by KeithL on Feb 12, 2018 12:12:33 GMT -5
I kind of figured that..... I was really just poking fun at all the extra stuff going on. I also tend to look at things from a more technical/interactive/manual direction. I would much rather TELL my player fo convert a file to FLAC than not know if the file I'm currently listening to had been converted or not. (Sometimes with good reason and sometimes just out of a desire to remain in absolute control .) For example, there are lots of different software programs which can be used to convert from DSD to PCM... And, not only do some of them work better than others, but many of them offer various configuration options that do affect how the results sound... Personally, I would much prefer to do the conversions manually than "trust" a program to do them for me. (Note that I have no reason to believe that the conversion Roon performs is in any way inadequate - or inferior to the one performed by anyone else.) On my server drive, I have all my lossless files in folders, under a main folder named "Music_LOSSLESS". And, yes, under the "Pink Floyd" folder in that folder, I do have a folder named "Dark Side of the Moon (2003 EMI)" and one marked "Dark Side of the Moon 24-88 FLAC (from SACD)". (And, yes, if I noticed something that sounded odd in one of the songs in the converted version, I just might dig out the original SACD files, and convert them again using a different conversion program.) (And, yeah, I usually leave all the conversion options in jRiver disabled, and manually convert copies of any DSD content I have into PCM before playing them.) And, yes, all of this is being incredibly nit-picky.... but I tend to enjoy being involved in the "nuts-and-bolts" technology side of audio. Which is probably why I own a half dozen programs that can convert between sample rates, and have actually compared a few of them personally, but I drive an automatic, and I don't change my own oil. (I would personally find a true "self driving" car a neat idea; but I prefer to drive my own audio system... as I said, that's just a personal preference.) Yikes...... ("awesome" is not the word I'd use for all that busy-busy signal modification stuff). You provide an interesting example of how we each have very different goals and criteria for what we want a program to do. I look at that and I see a LIST of ways in which Roon has MESSED WITH with the music between the file I gave it and when I got to hear it. (After all, each of those conversions has changed the content, and any of those changes MIGHT be audible.) (I doubt that they're really doing three separate conversions there.... it would be absurd to NOT make the conversion in a single step to minimize the side effects and potential for something to go wrong.) What I personally would be looking for would be an absolute assurance that my file was arriving at the DAC with NO conversions of any kind being done to it... or as close as possible to that goal. I usually don't bother with supporting DSD at the DAC, so I manually convert any DSD files I get to FLAC right up front. Other than that I, my primary requirement is for every bit in the original file to be delivered to the DAC without any conversions or modifications. I also interpret wilburthegoose's sentence as "unless you see the purple light then it isn't working right". In that context, seeing that light would be a nice reassurance, but I'd better not FAIL to see it more than occasionally, or there's a serious problem with the system. Keith --- Some of these files are SACD files stored on my NAS that have to be converted. This isn't going on with "regular" FLAC files from my NAS. FYI I also have J.River and its doing the same thing in the background. With Tidal there isn't as much going on. I will try to post a screenshot of that as well.
|
|
|
Post by kybourbon on Feb 12, 2018 12:24:44 GMT -5
I kind of figured that..... I was really just poking fun at all the extra stuff going on. I also tend to look at things from a more technical/interactive/manual direction. I would much rather TELL my player fo convert a file to FLAC than not know if the file I'm currently listening to had been converted or not. (Sometimes with good reason and sometimes just out of a desire to remain in absolute control .) For example, there are lots of different software programs which can be used to convert from DSD to PCM... And, not only do some of them work better than others, but many of them offer various configuration options that do affect how the results sound... Personally, I would much prefer to do the conversions manually than "trust" a program to do them for me. (Note that I have no reason to believe that the conversion Roon performs is in any way inadequate - or inferior to the one performed by anyone else.) On my server drive, I have all my lossless files in folders, under a main folder named "Music_LOSSLESS". And, yes, under the "Pink Floyd" folder in that folder, I do have a folder named "Dark Side of the Moon (2003 EMI)" and one marked "Dark Side of the Moon 24-88 FLAC (from SACD)". (And, yes, if I noticed something that sounded odd in one of the songs in the converted version, I just might dig out the original SACD files, and convert them again using a different conversion program.) (And, yeah, I usually leave all the conversion options in jRiver disabled, and manually convert copies of any DSD content I have into PCM before playing them.) And, yes, all of this is being incredibly nit-picky.... but I tend to enjoy being involved in the "nuts-and-bolts" technology side of audio. Which is probably why I own a half dozen programs that can convert between sample rates, and have actually compared a few of them personally, but I drive an automatic, and I don't change my own oil. (I would personally find a true "self driving" car a neat idea; but I prefer to drive my own audio system... as I said, that's just a personal preference.) Keith --- Some of these files are SACD files stored on my NAS that have to be converted. This isn't going on with "regular" FLAC files from my NAS. FYI I also have J.River and its doing the same thing in the background. With Tidal there isn't as much going on. I will try to post a screenshot of that as well. I hear you. Which is why I posted in this thread about "tweaking" some things in Roon. I am a tinkerer as well and like to tinker if needed. I also have a ton of different file types (FLAC, ISO, SACD rips, AAC, many others, etc) and I understand that they all get handled differently by both Roon and J.River. Really I don't care how they are handled as long as they sound as good as possible when the sound comes out of the speakers. That was ultimately the purpose of this thread.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,902
|
Post by KeithL on Feb 12, 2018 13:00:34 GMT -5
As a kind of aside here - for those who might want to convert SACD ISO files into FLAC or other formats..... Foobar2000 can both play and convert DSD files using a free plugin... For whatever reason, this plugin isn't listed in the Foobar2000 Repository... but you can get it here: sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/Incidentally, playing SACD ISOs and separate files using this plugin is sort of obvious.... But it can also be used to convert a single SACD ISO into individual files for each song in other formats.... (Load the SACD ISO file into the Foobar2000 playlist, select all of the separate songs, RIGHT-CLICK, then pick CONVERT; when you pick a format, you will be able to convert each of the individual songs into a separate track in the format of your choice. This works for both the two-channel and multi-channel tracks that are present. ) (You can then play those files directly in Roon.... or any other player. )
|
|
|
Post by kybourbon on Feb 12, 2018 23:21:29 GMT -5
An interesting development...
I had a Sonos:Connect attached to my music area and a second one attached to my theater area. Now with Roon I can add a $60 Raspberry Pi instead and either sell the Sonos:Connect or use it in a different area/zone.
Not bad!
|
|