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Post by ronkuper on Mar 1, 2018 1:53:02 GMT -5
A suggestion for entering a market that might be ripe for Emotiva-style disruption. Quoting Kal Rubinson: A lot of room between the first and second option. Examples of how we could use these multi-channel DACs for Stereo content - 1. Software Room Correction with Bass Management (needs at least 3 channels) 2. Using the same system for audio and video without compromising on audio SQ 3. Multi-channel content 4. Bi-Amping 5. Two (or more) Subwoofers for Stereo bass You can find us among other places on the ComputerAudiophile boards, JRiver community, Roon Community... and here  I'm just putting it here with hopes  |
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Post by goodfellas27 on Mar 1, 2018 8:38:17 GMT -5
Emotiva's XMC-1 is already a "multi-channel" DAC that also happens to have native Dirac support for Room EQ for those who are into that. It also has a fully balanced stereo analog path along with USB Asynchronous support. I do not understand the point of having overlapping products. Just zaps resources. A suggestion for entering a market that might be ripe for Emotiva-style disruption. Quoting Kal Rubinson: A lot of room between the first and second option. How do we use these multi-channel DACs with Stereo content - 1. Bi-Amping 2. Software Room Correction with Bass Management (needs at least 3 channels) 4. 2 (or more) Subwoofers for Stereo bass And of course, there is multi-channel content. You can find us among other places on the ComputerAudiophile boards, JRiver community, Roon Community... and here I'm just putting it here with hopes |
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Post by drtrey3 on Mar 1, 2018 8:42:28 GMT -5
Well, the XMC is big. It does a lot, and it is big. That means it appeals to older farts. Small would appeal to under 50s more I think.
Trey
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Post by pedrocols on Mar 1, 2018 9:58:23 GMT -5
Emotiva's XMC-1 is already a "multi-channel" DAC that also happens to have native Dirac support for Room EQ for those who are into that. It also has a fully balanced stereo analog path along with USB Asynchronous support. I do not understand the point of having overlapping products. Just zaps resources. A suggestion for entering a market that might be ripe for Emotiva-style disruption. Quoting Kal Rubinson: A lot of room between the first and second option. How do we use these multi-channel DACs with Stereo content - 1. Bi-Amping 2. Software Room Correction with Bass Management (needs at least 3 channels) 4. 2 (or more) Subwoofers for Stereo bass And of course, there is multi-channel content. You can find us among other places on the ComputerAudiophile boards, JRiver community, Roon Community... and here I'm just putting it here with hopes Because people that has a lot of money think that a 12k DAC is a bargain and a good value...😎 |
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Post by mr on Mar 1, 2018 11:09:27 GMT -5
Emotiva's XMC-1 is already a "multi-channel" DAC that also happens to have native Dirac support for Room EQ for those who are into that. It also has a fully balanced stereo analog path along with USB Asynchronous support. I do not understand the point of having overlapping products. Just zaps resources. Yes, it does, and mine is working just fine for both. I will be selling my Bifrost Multibit. |
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Post by ronkuper on Mar 1, 2018 12:48:44 GMT -5
Apart from being big, we the PC audiophile geeks, are paying for much more features than we need with this guy. And it's big. Also, the USB connection is only 2 channel. I did my homework  And yet another thing - Keith himself says he prefers async-USB for music. I guess it is obvious that you missed the PC audiophile part in my original post, what we do and what we want (hint - no vinyl)... That's ok. Perhaps it would pique your curiosity. As for the guy with the 'ppl-with-money-$12K-dac' remark... You completely missed the point. Being a PC audiophile means I can get much more for my money and be much more future proof and flexible. That's exactly why I believe there is a market for that (find us on the boards I've mentioned up there). With an Emotiva style "NO B.S" multi-channel DAC that just do one thing really good (well... Convert PCM/DSD to Analog) - I would've been set with everything an audiophile desires in the digital domain - Room correction, Decoding for everything imaginable today (including MQA) and in the future, unlimited UpSampling, Bass Management, Crazy PEQ filters, FIRs, IIRs, Channel Matrix, Control from anywhere and anything, etc... All in software. Well - I actually have all this today! Just that I'm forced to either use HDMI or pay upwards of $3K for a DAC, where a complete processor with x100 more features is sold for less. Hope you see now. If not I'm willing to talk shop whenever you reply. |
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Post by garbulky on Mar 1, 2018 12:51:53 GMT -5
Apart from being big, we the PC audiophile geeks, are paying for much more features than we need with this guy. And it's big. Also, the USB connection is only 2 channel. I did my homework And yet another thing - Keith himself says he prefers async-USB for music. I guess it is obvious you missed the PC audiophile part in my original post, what we do and what we want (hint - no vinyl)... That's ok. Perhaps it would pique your curiosity. As for the guy with the "ppl with money $12K dac" remark... You missed the whole thing. Being a PC audiophile means you can get much more for your money and be much more future proof and flexible. That's exactly why I believe there is a market for that. With an Emotiva style "NO B.S" multi-channel DAC that just do one thing really good (well... Convert PCM/DSD to Analog) - I would've been set with everything an audiophile desires - Room correction, Decoding for everything imaginable today and in the future including MQA, unlimited UpSampling, Bass Management, Crazy PEQ filters, FIRs, IIRs, Channel Matrix, Control from anywhere and anything, etc... All in software. Well - I actually have all this today! Just that I'm forced to either use HDMI or pay upwards of $3K for a DAC, where a complete processor with x100 more features is sold for less. Hope you see now. If not I'm willing to talk shop whenever you reply. I think it's too niche to sell. USB multichannel - gets you some sort of niche active cross over product. Or it's for people interested in DSD. But if it's DSD it makes sense to make it a multichannel native DSD DAC and for it to take HDMI. |
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Post by ronkuper on Mar 1, 2018 12:53:57 GMT -5
Agree to disagree. Folks on the boards make do with funky stuff like pro audio sound cards or compromise unwillingly on SQ or pay much more than they should for these crazy mch dacs*, unwillingly. Look it up. *Because if miniDSP can make a very basic one for $250 which audiophile are probably reluctant to use in a decent system I bet a better one could be made for $600-$1000 which would fill the current hole in the market. If you build it, we will come. I hope. |
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Post by qdtjni on Mar 1, 2018 13:03:38 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity,
what music sources do you have that are multichannel?
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Post by mr on Mar 1, 2018 13:53:18 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, what music sources do you have that are multichannel? I have a vendor who legally rips my SACDs/DVD-As/Blu-Ray music disks to DSD then to FLAC. As long as I am using my discs to create the files, it is perfectly legal. Cost? $5 per disc for 2.0, $7.50 for 2.0 and 5.1 (or 4.0 or 3.0). Works perfectly and plays great through my XMC-1 HDMI for multichannel and through the USB DAC for 2.0. Changed my life, as far as my relationship to my music goes. I play more and I enjoy it more. Could not be happier with my system. |
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Post by ronkuper on Mar 1, 2018 13:53:27 GMT -5
Hi qdtjni, First, let me just state that I use multi-channel primarily for Stereo! Here are examples why, from the OP (edited for clarity): Examples of how we could use these multi-channel DACs for Stereo content - 1. Software Room Correction with Bass Management (needs at least 3 channels) 2. Using the same system for audio and video without compromising on audio SQ 3. Multi-channel content 4. Bi-Amping 5. Two (or more) Subwoofers for Stereo bass I do 1+2+3 today, only with an HDMI prepro since the multi-channel DAC market is ridiculous at the moment. I plan on doing 4 soon. As for surround content, I have - 1. Video - Netflix (5.1)/Bluerays/Downloads/etc. 2. Audio - Not as much as I like. There are some like Porcupine Tree, Steven Wilson, Pink Floyd and some electronic music productions. I wish I had more but that's not really the main point for my multi-channel DAC interest. |
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Post by qdtjni on Mar 1, 2018 14:30:04 GMT -5
Hi qdtjni, First, let me just state that I use multi-channel primarily for Stereo! Here are examples why, from the OP (edited for clarity): Examples of how we could use these multi-channel DACs for Stereo content - 1. Software Room Correction with Bass Management (needs at least 3 channels) 2. Using the same system for audio and video without compromising on audio SQ 3. Multi-channel content 4. Bi-Amping 5. Two (or more) Subwoofers for Stereo bass I do 1+2+3 today, only with an HDMI prepro since the multi-channel DAC market is ridiculous at the moment. I plan on doing 4 soon. As for surround content, I have - 1. Video - Netflix (5.1)/Bluerays/Downloads/etc. 2. Audio - Not as much as I like. There are some like Porcupine Tree, Steven Wilson, Pink Floyd and some electronic music productions. I wish I had more but that's not really the main point for my multi-channel DAC interest. So you say "First, let me just state that I use multi-channel primarily for Stereo!" then you say you do 1,2&3, where 3 is "Multi-channel content". Just kidding. 1, 4 & 5 makes sense and possibly 3 for music if you don't think 48kHz Dirac is not good enough, then XMC-1 is not for you. |
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Post by qdtjni on Mar 1, 2018 14:33:17 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, what music sources do you have that are multichannel? I have a vendor who legally rips my SACDs/DVD-As/Blu-Ray music disks to DSD then to FLAC. As long as I am using my discs to create the files, it is perfectly legal. Cost? $5 per disc for 2.0, $7.50 for 2.0 and 5.1 (or 4.0 or 3.0). Works perfectly and plays great through my XMC-1 HDMI for multichannel and through the USB DAC for 2.0. Changed my life, as far as my relationship to my music goes. I play more and I enjoy it more. Could not be happier with my system. Do you get both DSD and FLAC? Is DVD-A and Blu-Ray first converted to DSD and then PCM (in FLAC)? |
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Post by Jean Genie on Mar 1, 2018 16:14:01 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, what music sources do you have that are multichannel? I have a vendor who legally rips my SACDs/DVD-As/Blu-Ray music disks to DSD then to FLAC. As long as I am using my discs to create the files, it is perfectly legal. Cost? $5 per disc for 2.0, $7.50 for 2.0 and 5.1 (or 4.0 or 3.0). Works perfectly and plays great through my XMC-1 HDMI for multichannel and through the USB DAC for 2.0. Changed my life, as far as my relationship to my music goes. I play more and I enjoy it more. Could not be happier with my system. Who's the vendor, and what is the procedure? Could you post a link? Or, is there software available to convert SACD & DVD-A to FLAC ? |
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Post by ronkuper on Mar 1, 2018 17:03:57 GMT -5
Hi qdtjni, First, let me just state that I use multi-channel primarily for Stereo! Here are examples why, from the OP (edited for clarity): I do 1+2+3 today, only with an HDMI prepro since the multi-channel DAC market is ridiculous at the moment. I plan on doing 4 soon. As for surround content, I have - 1. Video - Netflix (5.1)/Bluerays/Downloads/etc. 2. Audio - Not as much as I like. There are some like Porcupine Tree, Steven Wilson, Pink Floyd and some electronic music productions. I wish I had more but that's not really the main point for my multi-channel DAC interest. So you say "First, let me just state that I use multi-channel primarily for Stereo!" then you say you do 1,2&3, where 3 is "Multi-channel content". Just kidding. 1, 4 & 5 makes sense and possibly 3 for music if you don't think 48kHz Dirac is not good enough, then XMC-1 is not for you. Sorry, my bad... I've edited that in a hurry, not paying enough attention Glad you got it anyway! |
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Post by mr on Mar 1, 2018 18:22:23 GMT -5
I have a vendor who legally rips my SACDs/DVD-As/Blu-Ray music disks to DSD then to FLAC. As long as I am using my discs to create the files, it is perfectly legal. Cost? $5 per disc for 2.0, $7.50 for 2.0 and 5.1 (or 4.0 or 3.0). Works perfectly and plays great through my XMC-1 HDMI for multichannel and through the USB DAC for 2.0. Changed my life, as far as my relationship to my music goes. I play more and I enjoy it more. Could not be happier with my system. Do you get both DSD and FLAC? Is DVD-A and Blu-Ray first converted to DSD and then PCM (in FLAC)? |
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Post by mr on Mar 1, 2018 18:25:21 GMT -5
I have a vendor who legally rips my SACDs/DVD-As/Blu-Ray music disks to DSD then to FLAC. As long as I am using my discs to create the files, it is perfectly legal. Cost? $5 per disc for 2.0, $7.50 for 2.0 and 5.1 (or 4.0 or 3.0). Works perfectly and plays great through my XMC-1 HDMI for multichannel and through the USB DAC for 2.0. Changed my life, as far as my relationship to my music goes. I play more and I enjoy it more. Could not be happier with my system. Do you get both DSD and FLAC? Is DVD-A and Blu-Ray first converted to DSD and then PCM (in FLAC)? |
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Post by mr on Mar 1, 2018 18:27:25 GMT -5
SACDs are ripped to DSD, then he or you can convert to FLAC or another lossless code of your choice. DVD-As and BRs are ripped to your choice. Bit perfect. Wonderful service. I have used him for a year this month.
goldeneardigital.com
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bootman
Emo VIPs 
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
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Post by bootman on Mar 1, 2018 18:52:23 GMT -5
So you take a true 2ch source and matrix it to multichannel using what software? (besides what Dolby or DTS offers) Curious as to what audiophile solution you are using. Because room correction isn't multichannel and taking 2ch, filtering to add a sub and calling that "multichannel audio" is a bit of a stretch don't you think? |
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Post by ronkuper on Mar 2, 2018 15:25:21 GMT -5
So you take a true 2ch source and matrix it to multichannel using what software? (besides what Dolby or DTS offers) Curious as to what audiophile solution you are using. Because room correction isn't multichannel and taking 2ch, filtering to add a sub and calling that "multichannel audio" is a bit of a stretch don't you think? I use Dirac Live Full for digital room correction measured with the XTZ Room Analyzer II Pro. It is multichannel (all 6 speakers are measured and corrected) and is pretty awesome (plus a new version is coming soon). I also have plans to have a go with Acourate and see which one I prefer. The freedom of software and PC Now for the software I use and how I use it: 1. I have Roon (with Tidal Hifi) as the player for audio and JRiver as the player for video.
2. With multi-channel content, Dirac performs Room Correction for all channels as-is. 3. With Stereo content, I generally want to use a subwoofer (in my sig) for EDM/Techo genres. Closer to the effect of a club. So I do bass management and upmix to 2.1 with Roon's DSP when using Roon directly or EqualizerAPO for other sources (Replaced JRiver's WDM Driver for stability). The subwoofer channel is then also corrected by Dirac Live, as well as the lives (They plan to add BM internally in the future which should perform automatic sub integration and XOs very well). Note: If I was to perform bass management at the processor like most folks do - Dirac Live (on my PC, before the processor) wouldn't be able to treat the subwoofer as a separate speaker for proper time domain correction, among other loss functionality like separate speaker control.
4. For audio upsampling, I use Roon's DSP or HQPlayer which is integrated with Roon So the list is: Roon, Jriver, Dirac Live, HQPlayer, Tidal HiFi and optional (TBD) - Acourate. I wasn't able to be certain I understood your last sentence/question. If you care to clarify I'd be happy to elaborate. Ron |
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