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Post by Ex_Vintage on Apr 11, 2018 21:36:40 GMT -5
I currently use an A-500 and MC-700 for my family / great room. I am mostly interested in listening to 2.1 music. The A-500 works great for movies (in a 5.1 system), but my interest is in listening to music. Should I: Just leave it alone.... the A-500 is great for music (the system actually sounds real good imho) Add an A-300 for the L/R speakers for enhanced music listening. Add a XPA-2 for the L/R speakers... Any other suggestions?
Thanks
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Post by pknaz on Apr 11, 2018 21:43:22 GMT -5
Why mess with a good thing? - Enjoy the music!
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hemster
Global Moderator
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,920
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Post by hemster on Apr 11, 2018 21:53:52 GMT -5
^ I agree completely.
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Post by Ex_Vintage on Apr 11, 2018 22:06:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback. Like most, I am wondering if more power will give me more dynamics / depth to the sound. I am driving some ELAC towers for L/R speakers which are low impedance. Thanks again!
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Post by pedrocols on Apr 11, 2018 22:29:11 GMT -5
I used to power some Studio 100s with a UPA-500 which is pretty much the same thing and it was just fine. Just ask my neighbor...
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Post by creimes on Apr 11, 2018 23:05:39 GMT -5
Same here, owned a UPA-500 powering my Monitor Audio RX6 towers and it sounded amazing.
Chad
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Post by leonski on Apr 11, 2018 23:30:04 GMT -5
If possible, do 2 things:
1. Go to a setup site like CARDAS and try to set your system up for better sound. Send wife and her GF to movie while you do this.
2. Spend a few bucks that instead of on more gear, on some room treatment.
Either way, you can improve at little cost a system which already seems to please you.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 12, 2018 0:07:34 GMT -5
Yes. XPA-2! The A-500 and the XPA-2 are simply not the same amp. Just a qualifier, it also depends on your setup/experience if you hear differences in amps. If you haven't in the past, the XPA-2 won't make any difference.
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Post by boomzilla on Apr 12, 2018 1:26:32 GMT -5
And I disagree wholeheartedly with garbulky on this one. I currently have an XPA-2 (generation 3) and a BasX A300 in the house. I've listened to both drive high-sensitivity speakers (Tekton Pendragons), medium-sensitivity speakers (Emotiva Airmotiv T2s), and low-sensitivity speakers (Thiel 1.6s and RBH bookshelves). And my preference (surprise, surprise) is for the lower powered A300. I think the A300 sounds more dynamic and quicker/cleaner in the treble. Now the XPA-2 has MUCH more power and will play LOTS more loudly before compressing or distorting, but I don't listen loudly, so what do I care? I'd much rather have low-volume dynamics! I could also mention that the XPA-2 does have tighter control of the woofers when played full-range, but since I use a subwoofer below 50 Hz., that advantage goes away too. For my system and to my ears, the BasX series amplifiers are better sounding, more than adequately powerful, and far, far less expensive. If your A500 is sufficiently loud for you, I doubt that you'd gain much by spending more on amplification. Like leonski, I'd recommend spending the money on room treatments if you have cash burning a hole in your pocket. But I would agree with garbulky that a careful setup is also a huge potential source of improvement (and has the advantage of costing only your time). Happy Listening! Boomzilla
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Post by vcautokid on Apr 12, 2018 2:27:43 GMT -5
Tuning with room treatment and speaker placement and eq etc. is almost free. So I agree about optimizing the environment first. Then maybe more power, but I probably wouldn't worry about that for a long time. Going to more power isn't always a guarantee of better sound. Having enough dynamic headroom for how, where and what you listen to is key. Emotiva has a video somewhere here that talks about amplifier power and how much you may need. Note:that is a guideline only, and not a commandment. Take things slow and do one thing evaluate then move on to the next step etc. Room correction especially may get you where you need to be, or at the very least baseline you for the next steps if any are needed.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 12, 2018 7:55:13 GMT -5
And I disagree wholeheartedly with garbulky on this one. I currently have an XPA-2 (generation 3) and a BasX A300 in the house. I've listened to both drive high-sensitivity speakers (Tekton Pendragons), medium-sensitivity speakers (Emotiva Airmotiv T2s), and low-sensitivity speakers (Thiel 1.6s and RBH bookshelves). And my preference (surprise, surprise) is for the lower powered A300. I think the A300 sounds more dynamic and quicker/cleaner in the treble. Now the XPA-2 has MUCH more power and will play LOTS more loudly before compressing or distorting, but I don't listen loudly, so what do I care? I'd much rather have low-volume dynamics! I could also mention that the XPA-2 does have tighter control of the woofers when played full-range, but since I use a subwoofer below 50 Hz., that advantage goes away too. For my system and to my ears, the BasX series amplifiers are better sounding, more than adequately powerful, and far, far less expensive. If your A500 is sufficiently loud for you, I doubt that you'd gain much by spending more on amplification. Like leonski, I'd recommend spending the money on room treatments if you have cash burning a hole in your pocket. But I would agree with garbulky that a careful setup is also a huge potential source of improvement (and has the advantage of costing only your time). Happy Listening! Boomzilla gen 2 and gen 3 are very different amps. The gen 2 is more similar to an xpa-1 while the gen 3 looks more like that of the old XPA-3's and 5's - albeit it's still very different in design with its switching PS and less capacitance and redesigned amp modules.
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Post by boomzilla on Apr 12, 2018 9:45:55 GMT -5
Although the design is different, the "voicing" is virtually identical.
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Post by Ex_Vintage on Apr 12, 2018 12:41:25 GMT -5
Tuning with room treatment and speaker placement and eq etc. is almost free. So I agree about optimizing the environment first. Then maybe more power, but I probably wouldn't worry about that for a long time. Going to more power isn't always a guarantee of better sound. Having enough dynamic headroom for how, where and what you listen to is key. Emotiva has a video somewhere here that talks about amplifier power and how much you may need. Note:that is a guideline only, and not a commandment. Take things slow and do one thing evaluate then move on to the next step etc. Room correction especially may get you where you need to be, or at the very least baseline you for the next steps if any are needed. Just to clarify (and inline with Boomzilla's comments as well), I don't need more power for louder sound. I need enough volume to fill the room (14x18') and I find that at a moderate listening level, the dynamics of the material are more pronounced. Also there is the "feel" factor of the bass via my ELAC towers and a mild augmentation from my subwoofer when I am at a moderate listening level. So the focus is purely music dynamics and depth. I have found that the EMO-Q has done what I feel is a great job of EQing the room. I have played with speaker placement (distance from walls) and sub placement and like I said, I am more than satisfied with the overall sound. Just..... a little better would not hurt.
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Post by teaman on Apr 12, 2018 13:10:39 GMT -5
Seeing the low efficiency rating of the Elac speakers I would advise going with a bigger amp, skip on the BasX series and move to XPA. 85db sensitive or so are going to drain that juice quick, especially with all channels running.
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Post by rbk123 on Apr 12, 2018 13:38:15 GMT -5
What Teaman said. Do the math on the volume(s) you expect to listen. You could run out of headroom real quick.
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Post by davidl81 on Apr 12, 2018 13:41:26 GMT -5
Maybe I am mistaken, but if he is doing 2.1 then he has a crossover set on the L/R speakers. When you take the low end out of the L/R speakers they become much easier to drive. I just don't think he would see a huge difference in going to a XPA-2 amp if he is still running a sub. Don't get me wrong it would be a difference, but would it be a difference worth $1000 (or say $700ish for a used one)? If he was not running the sub then I think the difference may be more pronounced.
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Post by leonski on Apr 12, 2018 13:54:17 GMT -5
Tuning with room treatment and speaker placement and eq etc. is almost free. So I agree about optimizing the environment first. Then maybe more power, but I probably wouldn't worry about that for a long time. Going to more power isn't always a guarantee of better sound. Having enough dynamic headroom for how, where and what you listen to is key. Emotiva has a video somewhere here that talks about amplifier power and how much you may need. Note:that is a guideline only, and not a commandment. Take things slow and do one thing evaluate then move on to the next step etc. Room correction especially may get you where you need to be, or at the very least baseline you for the next steps if any are needed. Just to clarify (and inline with Boomzilla's comments as well), I don't need more power for louder sound. I need enough volume to fill the room (14x18') and I find that at a moderate listening level, the dynamics of the material are more pronounced. Also there is the "feel" factor of the bass via my ELAC towers and a mild augmentation from my subwoofer when I am at a moderate listening level. So the focus is purely music dynamics and depth. I have found that the EMO-Q has done what I feel is a great job of EQing the room. I have played with speaker placement (distance from walls) and sub placement and like I said, I am more than satisfied with the overall sound. Just..... a little better would not hurt. First a room is NOT square footage. A 14x18 room with a 12 foot ceiling is a different animal than if it had an 8 foot ceiling. You are worried about CUBIC capacity. The 8 foot ceiling version is just over 2000 cubic feet while the 12 foot version is just over 3000 cubic feet. That's 50% larger. If you low-cut your main speakers, which I think in HT-speak is setting them to 'small', you will ease your main amp power load by only 10% to 15%, not the monumental amount many would have you believe. The 50:50 power point for 'normal' music runs near 350hz. I low cut my mains to get 'em out of the way of the sub, which than improves the whole sound. Many DIY room treatment designs and plans available. And not just for absorbers, but the VITAL diffusion, too. I've been in one room which was dead due to being over-padded. Might have been good as a studio, but not as a listening room. My panels can take advantage of diffusion placed behind 'em, on the front wall......
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Post by boomzilla on Apr 12, 2018 14:40:43 GMT -5
...If you low-cut your main speakers, which I think in HT-speak is setting them to 'small', you will ease your main amp power load by only 10% to 15%, not the monumental amount many would have you believe. The 50:50 power point for 'normal' music runs near 350hz. I low cut my mains to get 'em out of the way of the sub, which than improves the whole sound.  ... Interesting. Might I enquire as to the source of that measurement?
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Post by garbulky on Apr 12, 2018 14:48:36 GMT -5
About power: I found a 5 watt tube amp is sufficient for volume and headroom at normal listneing levels in music. It sounded fantastic. So it's not really about watts. It's about how well it does. And imo the XPA-2 does very well!
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Post by leonski on Apr 12, 2018 15:42:50 GMT -5
...If you low-cut your main speakers, which I think in HT-speak is setting them to 'small', you will ease your main amp power load by only 10% to 15%, not the monumental amount many would have you believe. The 50:50 power point for 'normal' music runs near 350hz. I low cut my mains to get 'em out of the way of the sub, which than improves the whole sound. ... Interesting. Might I enquire as to the source of that measurement? Yes. Data comes from Elliot Sound Product article on 'biamp'. sound.whsites.net/bi-amp.htmSection 1.3 has the information you desire.
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