klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 29, 2018 10:41:00 GMT -5
From the absolute sound interview Dan said "So-called lifestyle products will have an enormous effect on the high end". Is he talking about Emersa???... I think that's the phrase he used when talking about them. Mark
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Post by overtheair on May 30, 2018 21:11:09 GMT -5
Developing another in house processor after the XMC-1, HDMI, Atmos, XMC-1 Gen 3, RMC-1 are finished? Sounds like a never never product, keeping in mind that Emersa was announced 2 and half years ago already (ie; CES January 2016). Cheers Gary My guess would be something on the design level of what Dan had asked us about in a poll before, like the XMC-1(light). In this case, a pretty much already designed and existing platform which could be modified to add Atmos that has digital HDMI inputs and HDMI outputs, no analog inputs and probably a USB input for firmware updates. I don't believe Emotiva would even need to modify or design anything new apart from possibly the DAC section, simply use the same DSP processor board and HDMI board they have already developed for RMC-1, the XMC-1 Gen 2 upgrade boards and XMC-1 Gen 3 board. The hardware cost of components doesn't appear to be that great even if they used exactly the same DSP board, i.e. no depopulating of a DSP chip assuming its even practical from a software perspective to do so. The Analog Devices example website prices for the Griffin Lite ADI chips is ~$30 shown here (IIRC correctly ADI used to show prices ~$10 lower earlier this year) and I very much doubt Emotiva will be paying anything like the website prices. The analog DAC section can be simplified with lower cost but still very capable AKM parts assuming its on a separate board to the DSP. For product differentiation and price point purposes it would be as you suggest a "digital-only" solution with higher end software performance/features probably turned off or derated with for example lower sampling rates for Dirac Lite and DSD. If people want more, such as anything balanced (except maybe for the sub) and any analog inputs then they move up the product line to XMC-1 Gen 2/3 or beyond. Advantage - no additional lengthy development cycles and a full product line up from MC700 to RMC-1 and use valuable engineering resources on something other than reinventing the wheel they just built. In my view Emotiva need this to especially address NAD's T 758 V3 with Dirac used either as a pre-pro or with partial amplification for up to 7.1.4. There are of course many other non-Dirac solutions already in the $1300-$1600 range. Just my 2c of course.
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klinemj
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Honorary Emofest Scribe
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Post by klinemj on May 30, 2018 21:41:33 GMT -5
My guess would be something on the design level of what Dan had asked us about in a poll before, like the XMC-1(light). In this case, a pretty much already designed and existing platform which could be modified to add Atmos that has digital HDMI inputs and HDMI outputs, no analog inputs and probably a USB input for firmware updates. I don't believe Emotiva would even need to modify or design anything new apart from possibly the DAC section, simply use the same DSP processor board and HDMI board they have already developed for RMC-1, the XMC-1 Gen 2 upgrade boards and XMC-1 Gen 3 board. The hardware cost of components doesn't appear to be that great even if they used exactly the same DSP board, i.e. no depopulating of a DSP chip assuming its even practical from a software perspective to do so. The Analog Devices example website prices for the Griffin Lite ADI chips is ~$30 shown here (IIRC correctly ADI used to show prices ~$10 lower earlier this year) and I very much doubt Emotiva will be paying anything like the website prices. The analog DAC section can be simplified with lower cost but still very capable AKM parts assuming its on a separate board to the DSP. For product differentiation and price point purposes it would be as you suggest a "digital-only" solution with higher end software performance/features probably turned off or derated with for example lower sampling rates for Dirac Lite and DSD. If people want more, such as anything balanced (except maybe for the sub) and any analog inputs then they move up the product line to XMC-1 Gen 2/3 or beyond. Advantage - no additional lengthy development cycles and a full product line up from MC700 to RMC-1 and use valuable engineering resources on something other than reinventing the wheel they just built. In my view Emotiva need this to especially address NAD's T 758 V3 with Dirac used either as a pre-pro or with partial amplification for up to 7.1.4. There are of course many other non-Dirac solutions already in the $1300-$1600 range. Just my 2c of course.
I suspect in a lower level pre-pro, there will be many cost-cutting changes vs. an XMC-1 or RMC-1. To start with, all pre-outs with be RCA, not XLR. Lower performing chips (DAC's, etc.) and other parts would likely be used. If a version of Dirac is used, it will likely be bare-bones. There likely would not be a tuner built in, and certainly no phono stage. And maybe...even fewer HDMI inputs and only 1 output. But, I'm guessing. Mark
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Post by Gary Cook on May 30, 2018 21:55:36 GMT -5
I don't believe Emotiva would even need to modify or design anything new apart from possibly the DAC section, simply use the same DSP processor board and HDMI board they have already developed for RMC-1, the XMC-1 Gen 2 upgrade boards and XMC-1 Gen 3 board. The hardware cost of components doesn't appear to be that great even if they used exactly the same DSP board, i.e. no depopulating of a DSP chip assuming its even practical from a software perspective to do so. The Analog Devices example website prices for the Griffin Lite ADI chips is ~$30 shown here (IIRC correctly ADI used to show prices ~$10 lower earlier this year) and I very much doubt Emotiva will be paying anything like the website prices. The analog DAC section can be simplified with lower cost but still very capable AKM parts assuming its on a separate board to the DSP. For product differentiation and price point purposes it would be as you suggest a "digital-only" solution with higher end software performance/features probably turned off or derated with for example lower sampling rates for Dirac Lite and DSD. If people want more, such as anything balanced (except maybe for the sub) and any analog inputs then they move up the product line to XMC-1 Gen 2/3 or beyond. Advantage - no additional lengthy development cycles and a full product line up from MC700 to RMC-1 and use valuable engineering resources on something other than reinventing the wheel they just built. In my view Emotiva need this to especially address NAD's T 758 V3 with Dirac used either as a pre-pro or with partial amplification for up to 7.1.4. There are of course many other non-Dirac solutions already in the $1300-$1600 range. Just my 2c of course.
I suspect in a lower level pre-pro, there will be many cost-cutting changes vs. an XMC-1 or RMC-1. To start with, all pre-outs with be RCA, not XLR. Lower performing chips (DAC's, etc.) and other parts would likely be used. If a version of Dirac is used, it will likely be bare-bones. There likely would not be a tuner built in, and certainly no phono stage. And maybe...even fewer HDMI inputs and only 1 output. But, I'm guessing. Mark I see it as an MC-700 plus Atmos/DTSX, that's it, a 5.1.2 category killer at, say, $999. Add basic DIRAC at, say, $1,199 as a option. Cheers Gary
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Post by overtheair on May 31, 2018 14:13:25 GMT -5
I suspect in a lower level pre-pro, there will be many cost-cutting changes vs. an XMC-1 or RMC-1. To start with, all pre-outs with be RCA, not XLR. Lower performing chips (DAC's, etc.) and other parts would likely be used. If a version of Dirac is used, it will likely be bare-bones. There likely would not be a tuner built in, and certainly no phono stage. And maybe...even fewer HDMI inputs and only 1 output. But, I'm guessing. Mark I see it as an MC-700 plus Atmos/DTSX, that's it, a 5.1.2 category killer at, say, $999. Add basic DIRAC at, say, $1,199 as a option. Cheers Gary Well you may be right but I think it would be a mistake if so. If Emotiva only offered 5.1.2 then anyone wanting 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 has to jump up to ~$3k for an XMC-1 Gen 2 or $3.5k for XMC-1 Gen 3 based on the only price indications/estimates I've seen for these two options. That in my view is way too large a gap in price points versus competitor AVR's with pre-outs which are real competition for Emotiva even if the internal amps are not used.
Consider the Marantz lineup for comparison. SR5012 at ~$1k with 5.1.2, SR6012 at $1.5k with 5.1.4, SR7012 at $2.2k with 7.1.4, Marantz fits two models in between the ~$1k SR5012 and the ~$3k SR8012. Onkyo as a second example is really pushing with TX-RZ730 at ~$1k supporting 7.2.4 preouts. I don't think Emotiva would need two models and don't need to price match something as aggressive as the Onkyo example but a model somewhere between $1.3-1.6k with 7.1.4 and Dirac lite is a necessity in my view. Especially because there's a very good chance they get to sell some amps with nice margins along with it.
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