klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,086
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 17:33:26 GMT -5
Post by klinemj on Jul 9, 2018 17:33:26 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. So in my case, I'm looking for a solution in 3 rooms: - home theater where I have wired internet access. - family room where I have wireless internet access (could be wired if needed). - my office where I have wired internet access (could be wired if needed). The server part I get. Likely the server will be my laptop in the office. Or I could use a cheap laptop dedicated for this. What's the difference between "clients" and "end-points"? I also don't "get" this whole Roon thing. The terminology and what one gets are confusing. From what I can see, I can use a device (like my Surface Pro 3 or other device) to choose tunes to play in up to 8 locations...or "endpoints", with each needing some type of receiving device, like an r-Pi, an Oppo player, a Chromecast, etc. AND...if I don't like the sound quality there, I might have to output a digital signal from that device to a DAC. And, unless I want to pay year by year, the price is fairly high (what...$499 now?). And year by year is cheaper, but...still high. And, if I want to use Tidal, I pay that + Roon's fees. In my system, for multi-zone, I use Sonos and have 5 zones. No doubt - that's pricey, but my wife and kids can all use it easily (PRICELESS!). For my critical listening, where I'd consider Room as an alternate, I have 2 really cheap PC's (each cost less than an annual Room subscription) to either play from jRiver or Tidal using my Surface Pro 3 to control the final PC - each PC taking tunes off my NAS or the internet via TIDAL. So, what would I gain from Roon? (and if the answer is more metadata about each album...don't need it...given each PC is internet capable, I can get all the info about each album I play and more easily if I want...). Mark |
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 18:02:14 GMT -5
Post by novisnick on Jul 9, 2018 18:02:14 GMT -5
Roon server and hifi? Ive heard that directly connecting your DAC to the server results in less then premium sound. And and airport doesn’t render the highest quality sound. Do you use Roon for highest quality sound? How do you buffer between the server and DAC? Good thread, interested to learn from those who have gone before. I am currently ripping my CD collection, then plan to move into Tidal and Roon trials when I can really focus on them one at a time to make decisions on purchasing. Curious about your comment that "...directly connecting your DAC to the server results in less than premium sound." I'd like to understand more about this. If the server is outputting digital, as a CD player would when used with an outboard DAC, why would the situation be different than the CD --> DAC setup in terms of the DAC rendering good analog output? Im no authority but from what I do understand a computer is electronically vey noisy place and that damages sound quality. Need a way to insulate this bad jue jue. |
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Post by sahmen on Jul 9, 2018 18:16:14 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. So in my case, I'm looking for a solution in 3 rooms: - home theater where I have wired internet access. - family room where I have wireless internet access (could be wired if needed). - my office where I have wired internet access (could be wired if needed). The server part I get. Likely the server will be my laptop in the office. Or I could use a cheap laptop dedicated for this. What's the difference between "clients" and "end-points"? I also don't "get" this whole Roon thing. The terminology and what one gets are confusing. From what I can see, I can use a device (like my Surface Pro 3 or other device) to choose tunes to play in up to 8 locations...or "endpoints", with each needing some type of receiving device, like an r-Pi, an Oppo player, a Chromecast, etc. AND...if I don't like the sound quality there, I might have to output a digital signal from that device to a DAC. And, unless I want to pay year by year, the price is fairly high (what...$499 now?). And year by year is cheaper, but...still high. And, if I want to use Tidal, I pay that + Roon's fees. In my system, for multi-zone, I use Sonos and have 5 zones. No doubt - that's pricey, but my wife and kids can all use it easily (PRICELESS!). For my critical listening, where I'd consider Room as an alternate, I have 2 really cheap PC's (each cost less than an annual Room subscription) to either play from jRiver or Tidal using my Surface Pro 3 to control the final PC - each PC taking tunes off my NAS or the internet via TIDAL. So, what would I gain from Roon? (and if the answer is more metadata about each album...don't need it...given each PC is internet capable, I can get all the info about each album I play and more easily if I want...). Mark Dear Hemster and Mark: There are simple and compelling answers to all the questions you're asking, as some of the other loungers on this thread are valiantly trying to demonstrate... But there is an even simpler, and more compelling (not to mention, much much easier and quicker) way to get answers, which is to give Roon the 14-day trial run. If you apply yourselves to it, it wouldn't take you more than two days to arrive at a satisfying decision, pro or con... I think the advantages of Roon sell themselves very well, if you take a first-hand test drive... On the other hand, if you really do not need Roon, the same test drive would quite eloquently demonstrate that to you too... Oh, and the 14-day test drive is free, and you do not have to return-ship anything, if you decide not to bite...  , and there will be entirely no harm done, in the entire process. That I can guarantee. Absolutely no persons, animals, loungers, audiophiles, or wallets, will be molested or injured in the entire process, Hoping this helps |
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 18:31:31 GMT -5
DYohn likes this
Post by Loop 7 on Jul 9, 2018 18:31:31 GMT -5
DYohn explained it quite clearly. I'm a broken record but I think Roon's interface is so far ahead of other solutions that it's hard to measure. JRiver, Amarra, Audirvana, etc are all nice and rapidly improving but it's still not a contest. Here are my very subjective thoughts on Roon. Pros: - Remarkable music collection (library) interface which makes playback enjoyable - Unrivaled TIDAL, local and network integration - it's all searchable in one place with clear labels - Deep metadata - many albums will have extensive production credits, recording locations, etc - Easy to understand configuration tools - Extremely quick tech support - remember this is a paid product so the Roon team usually replies to support tickets (done via their well-designed forum) within half a day. - Ever growing options for endpoints - a company that stays very close to customers and responds to feature requests Cons: - Price - to some, it's nothing but it's not free - lack of Spotify and other streaming services - if ever TIDAL fails, Roon may loose some of it's allure - Audio quality - I'm in the minority but feel Amarra and Audirvana trump Roon's playback engine
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 18:31:38 GMT -5
Post by chicagorspec on Jul 9, 2018 18:31:38 GMT -5
Good thread, interested to learn from those who have gone before. I am currently ripping my CD collection, then plan to move into Tidal and Roon trials when I can really focus on them one at a time to make decisions on purchasing. Curious about your comment that "...directly connecting your DAC to the server results in less than premium sound." I'd like to understand more about this. If the server is outputting digital, as a CD player would when used with an outboard DAC, why would the situation be different than the CD --> DAC setup in terms of the DAC rendering good analog output? Im no authority but from what I do understand a computer is electronically vey noisy place and that damages sound quality. Need a way to insulate this bad jue jue. Gotcha. By server I thought you meant a dedicated music server, but it sounds like you are referring to a multi-purposed computer functioning in that role. |
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 18:48:04 GMT -5
Post by novisnick on Jul 9, 2018 18:48:04 GMT -5
Im no authority but from what I do understand a computer is electronically vey noisy place and that damages sound quality. Need a way to insulate this bad jue jue. Gotcha. By server I thought you meant a dedicated music server, but it sounds like you are referring to a multi-purposed computer functioning in that role. By server I am speaking of my Mac Mini that has no purpose but an audio device. I have a PC for other such tasks, Security, home Surveillance, other work. |
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 18:48:49 GMT -5
Post by novisnick on Jul 9, 2018 18:48:49 GMT -5
Im no authority but from what I do understand a computer is electronically vey noisy place and that damages sound quality. Need a way to insulate this bad jue jue. Gotcha. By server I thought you meant a dedicated music server, but it sounds like you are referring to a multi-purposed computer functioning in that role. By server I am speaking of my Mac Mini that has no purpose but an audio device. I have a PC for other such tasks, Security, home Surveillance, other work. Its still a noisy environment relatively speaking. |
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 19:21:45 GMT -5
Post by novisnick on Jul 9, 2018 19:21:45 GMT -5
So I will need to install Roon Core on my Mac Mini and run Roon Remote on my IPad, therefore ill be able to use the IPad to control the Roon Core.
Do I have this right. If so seems easy so far! 😁
If Im wrong, boy im lost! 😲
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 19:23:35 GMT -5
Post by sahmen on Jul 9, 2018 19:23:35 GMT -5
Gotcha. By server I thought you meant a dedicated music server, but it sounds like you are referring to a multi-purposed computer functioning in that role. By server I am speaking of my Mac Mini that has no purpose but an audio device. I have a PC for other such tasks, Security, home Surveillance, other work. Its still a noisy environment relatively speaking. Yes the server/core should ideally live on a separate device, such as a mac mini, and should not serve as an output or endpoint simultaneously. Personally, I use one mac mini as a dedicated and isolated roon core home, and a couple of Sonore renderers (microrendu and ultrarendu), an Oppo 203, as well as a squeezebox touch as dedicated outputs or players at various stations/rigs in the home network. My laptops, ipads and iphone all serve as remotes and endpoints as well |
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 19:27:10 GMT -5
Post by sahmen on Jul 9, 2018 19:27:10 GMT -5
So I will need to install Roon Core on my Mac Mini and run Roon Remote on my IPad, therefore ill be able to use the IPad to control the Roon Core. Do I have this right. If so seems easy so far! 😁 If Im wrong, boy im lost! 😲 Yes, right so far... One thing missing from the picture is the storage place for your own privately ripped files.... I use a synology NAS for that, and it connects to my router and to the roon core macmini via ethernet. Are you going to use a dedicated renderer or network player as an endpoint? |
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 19:36:15 GMT -5
Post by novisnick on Jul 9, 2018 19:36:15 GMT -5
So I will need to install Roon Core on my Mac Mini and run Roon Remote on my IPad, therefore ill be able to use the IPad to control the Roon Core. Do I have this right. If so seems easy so far! 😁 If Im wrong, boy im lost! 😲 Yes, right so far... One thing missing from the picture is the storage place for your own privately ripped files.... I use a synology NAS for that, and it connects to my router and to the roon core macmini via ethernet. Are you going to use a dedicated renderer or network player as an endpoint? And that is the ultimate question to maximize sound quality! Im looking to end at a Brooklyn DAC but getting there is the next step. Perhaps from the Mac Mini to what ive looked at so far. ( sotm sms 200 or ultra or the sonore microrendu ultra rendu not sure where to look. Ive heard great things about the soTm but very pricy! The Sonore seems more reasonable. How do you like the SQ? I have the Oppo 203 but I want to end atthe Mytek. Thoughts? Help? |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 9, 2018 19:40:56 GMT -5
Why are you considering Audirvana? What can it do that Roon can't? Or do better.. inquiring minds want to know. 🙂 All I’m looking for is a better front end for my iTunes library. I will continue to rip my music and sync my devices with iTunes, my wife will continue to use AppleTV as her interface to the iTunes library, I’ll even use that for parties and ‘background music’. We are an AppleCentric household and that will continue, but when I’m listening seriously I want a better interface, better album art, I’d love to get rid of BitPerfect, but don’t think Audirvana will handle the depth/res changes it does on the Mac. I don’t want any more servers and only have one ‘startpoint’ and ‘endpoint’, my Mac mini that holds my iTunes library. Everything is distributed from there via the XMC-1 and Zone amp. Audirvana can co-exist with my current ecosystem, my needs are simple and Roon seems like more than I need or want, but I’ll listen. In truth I have two minis that have a synced library, one is my desktop, I use it here in the summer and take it to Park City in the winter ... but I digress ... is it snow yet? |
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 19:58:55 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by chicagorspec on Jul 9, 2018 19:58:55 GMT -5
Gotcha. By server I thought you meant a dedicated music server, but it sounds like you are referring to a multi-purposed computer functioning in that role. By server I am speaking of my Mac Mini that has no purpose but an audio device. I have a PC for other such tasks, Security, home Surveillance, other work. Its still a noisy environment relatively speaking. If it’s serving only that role and yet that ill-suited, sounds like time to look for something more task-appropriate. |
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 20:00:16 GMT -5
Post by sahmen on Jul 9, 2018 20:00:16 GMT -5
Yes, right so far... One thing missing from the picture is the storage place for your own privately ripped files.... I use a synology NAS for that, and it connects to my router and to the roon core macmini via ethernet. Are you going to use a dedicated renderer or network player as an endpoint? And that is the ultimate question to maximize sound quality! Im looking to end at a Brooklyn DAC but getting there is the next step. Perhaps from the Mac Mini to what ive looked at so far. ( sotm sms 200 or ultra or the sonore microrendu ultra rendu not sure where to look. Ive heard great things about the soTm but very pricy! The Sonore seems more reasonable. How do you like the SQ? I have the Oppo 203 but I want to end atthe Mytek. Thoughts? Help? Your oppo 203 can already connect to your Brooklyn via the SPDIF/Coax connectors. The ultrarendu or microrendu will connect via the USB, and will both sound their best powered bvia Linear Power Supply (Of course, they'll both work with an SMPS, but I'm assuming that you want to optimize sound quality, as you have suggested, hence the LPS suggestion). The Ultrarendu sounds better, although the microrendu, while not necessarily being a slouch, is cheaper, and both connect directly to your router via ethernet, and can be connected directly to your Brooklyn via USB or through another usb converting (or reclocking/decrapifying) interface if you prefer, but they'll be sufficient on their own. I can't say much about the SOtM because I have no first hand experience with it, although I have heard good things. |
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 20:08:25 GMT -5
Post by novisnick on Jul 9, 2018 20:08:25 GMT -5
And that is the ultimate question to maximize sound quality! Im looking to end at a Brooklyn DAC but getting there is the next step. Perhaps from the Mac Mini to what ive looked at so far. ( sotm sms 200 or ultra or the sonore microrendu ultra rendu not sure where to look. Ive heard great things about the soTm but very pricy! The Sonore seems more reasonable. How do you like the SQ? I have the Oppo 203 but I want to end atthe Mytek. Thoughts? Help? Your oppo 203 can already connect to your Brooklyn via the SPDIF/Coax connectors. The ultrarendu or microrendu will connect via the USB, and will both sound their best powered bvia Linear Power Supply (Of course, they'll both work with an SMPS, but I'm assuming that you want to optimize sound quality, as you have suggested, hence the LPS suggestion). The Ultrarendu sounds better, although the microrendu, while not necessarily being a slouch, is cheaper, and both connect directly to your router via ethernet, and can be connected directly to your Brooklyn via USB or through another usb converting (or reclocking/decrapifying) interface if you prefer, but they'll be sufficient on their own. I can't say much about the SOtM because I have no first hand experience with it, although I have heard good things. Which LPS do you use. Ive been reading,,,,,,A LOT as you can tell! LOL Yes, Im looking at the complete chain of corruption! LOL Noise. The soTm can be had for reasonable to silver wire and masterclocking etc. How deep are your pockets? And you still want an upgraded LPS to go with it. LOL |
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klinemj
Emo VIPs
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,086
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 20:18:02 GMT -5
Post by klinemj on Jul 9, 2018 20:18:02 GMT -5
I also don't "get" this whole Roon thing. The terminology and what one gets are confusing. From what I can see, I can use a device (like my Surface Pro 3 or other device) to choose tunes to play in up to 8 locations...or "endpoints", with each needing some type of receiving device, like an r-Pi, an Oppo player, a Chromecast, etc. AND...if I don't like the sound quality there, I might have to output a digital signal from that device to a DAC. And, unless I want to pay year by year, the price is fairly high (what...$499 now?). And year by year is cheaper, but...still high. And, if I want to use Tidal, I pay that + Roon's fees. In my system, for multi-zone, I use Sonos and have 5 zones. No doubt - that's pricey, but my wife and kids can all use it easily (PRICELESS!). For my critical listening, where I'd consider Room as an alternate, I have 2 really cheap PC's (each cost less than an annual Room subscription) to either play from jRiver or Tidal using my Surface Pro 3 to control the final PC - each PC taking tunes off my NAS or the internet via TIDAL. So, what would I gain from Roon? (and if the answer is more metadata about each album...don't need it...given each PC is internet capable, I can get all the info about each album I play and more easily if I want...). Mark Dear Hemster and Mark: There are simple and compelling answers to all the questions you're asking, as some of the other loungers on this thread are valiantly trying to demonstrate... But there is an even simpler, and more compelling (not to mention, much much easier and quicker) way to get answers, which is to give Roon the 14-day trial run. If you apply yourselves to it, it wouldn't take you more than two days to arrive at a satisfying decision, pro or con... I think the advantages of Roon sell themselves very well, if you take a first-hand test drive... On the other hand, if you really do not need Roon, the same test drive would quite eloquently demonstrate that to you too... Oh, and the 14-day test drive is free, and you do not have to return-ship anything, if you decide not to bite... , and there will be entirely no harm done, in the entire process. That I can guarantee. Absolutely no persons, animals, loungers, audiophiles, or wallets, will be molested or injured in the entire process, Hoping this helps No offense, but I see a lot of folks post essentially this same thing. But none explain why I should bother to take the trouble. Every single option I try takes effort and very few are worth it. Please elaborate on what benefits Roon would offer me over what I have. Seriously...why should I bother? No insult to your or others, but a simple question. Seeking to learn. Mark |
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 20:23:15 GMT -5
Post by novisnick on Jul 9, 2018 20:23:15 GMT -5
Question for our longer term Roon users. My 4Tb hard drive has plenty of double entries in it. Do I understand correctly that Roon has a strong ability to identify and allows me to clean the disc up?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 9, 2018 20:36:08 GMT -5
... Please elaborate on what benefits Roon would offer me over what I have. Seriously...why should I bother? No insult to your or others, but a simple question. Seeking to learn. I think that's a key to many endeavors, "what problem are you trying to solve?" If the answer is that you don't have a problem, then why find a solution for it? |
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 20:47:42 GMT -5
Post by sahmen on Jul 9, 2018 20:47:42 GMT -5
Dear Hemster and Mark: There are simple and compelling answers to all the questions you're asking, as some of the other loungers on this thread are valiantly trying to demonstrate... But there is an even simpler, and more compelling (not to mention, much much easier and quicker) way to get answers, which is to give Roon the 14-day trial run. If you apply yourselves to it, it wouldn't take you more than two days to arrive at a satisfying decision, pro or con... I think the advantages of Roon sell themselves very well, if you take a first-hand test drive... On the other hand, if you really do not need Roon, the same test drive would quite eloquently demonstrate that to you too... Oh, and the 14-day test drive is free, and you do not have to return-ship anything, if you decide not to bite... , and there will be entirely no harm done, in the entire process. That I can guarantee. Absolutely no persons, animals, loungers, audiophiles, or wallets, will be molested or injured in the entire process, Hoping this helps No offense, but I see a lot of folks post essentially this same thing. But none explain why I should bother to take the trouble. Every single option I try takes effort and very few are worth it. Please elaborate on what benefits Roon would offer me over what I have. Seriously...why should I bother? No insult to your or others, but a simple question. Seeking to learn. Mark No offense taken... I'm however sensing that you're probably not seeing at least one quite difficult aspect of the question you're asking (i.e. given the way you're framing it). To elaborate on what benefits Roon would offer over what you already have, and do so in a satisfyingly reliable way, one needs to have an intimate first-hand familiarity with your current system and the quality of its performance (which is something I personally do not have), and then be able to compare them to the enhancements that roon is likely to add to them. Even more importantly, and fundamentally, one has to hear both versions of the systems in the way you do... I am sure you see where I am going with this... And do correct me if I am wrong... I do not see how I can answer your question satisfactorily, given those parameters, without feeling I am either overpromising or underpromising.. I simply don't feel qualified to answer you in a capable way... My recommendation of a first hand trial run was meant to match the complexity of your question, as you were framing it... and its demanding nature, at least, as I was interpreting it... |
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Roon
Jul 9, 2018 21:00:52 GMT -5
Post by Loop 7 on Jul 9, 2018 21:00:52 GMT -5
Please elaborate on what benefits Roon would offer me over what I have. Seriously...why should I bother? No insult to your or others, but a simple question. Seeking to learn. You'll be able to answer this better than anyone else by taking the trial. I would be very interested in your impressions, good or bad. |
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, and there will be entirely no harm done, in the entire process. That I can guarantee. Absolutely no persons, animals, loungers, audiophiles, or wallets, will be molested or injured in the entire process, Hoping this helps 
