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Post by Hughes, G D on Sept 30, 2018 10:04:40 GMT -5
Last week we had a really bad electrical storm. Booming hard right on top of my house. Anyway, I have lightning arrester on the CATV and a whole house surge protection at the meter as well as additional protection for all audio/video components. After the storm I found a blank TV screen when watching cable from the DVR. I determined that the HDMI out was toast so I swapped out the DVR and still had no picture, That's when I discovered that I also lost HDMI input 1 on the XMC-1. I swapped over to another HDMI input and all works fine. All other inputs appear fine. Apparently the CATV arrester failed to capture the surge.
So, the question is, Do I send it in for repair?
To answer that quest I need to understand a couple things. 1. How likely is it that the assumed power surge that took out the input, affected something else internally? 2. How likely is it that a technician can see a potential future failure with his/her equipment?
Additionally, the whole house protection is provided by my power company and comes with replacement insurance of some kind. Should I just file a claim and have the whole thing replaced? This might be a pain in the ass but, I really don't know.
Thanks in advance for your advice, David Hughes
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Post by vcautokid on Sept 30, 2018 10:17:34 GMT -5
Until someone goes through the XMC-1 on the bench we would just be guessing what might have been damaged. Lightning damage can be very tricky. I had a friend who put in a lightning stake in the ground so it would give him as much protection as possible. If you have insurance coverage for your gear for said occurance via your insurance company or the surge arresting gear that is also protecting your gear. By the way you did register with the surge arrester device(s) vendor too yes? If that even applies. I don't all the ins and outs here, but again until your XMC-1 is thoroughly checked out on the bench, the extent of the damage is unknown.
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Post by DavidR on Sept 30, 2018 10:56:52 GMT -5
I always unplug anything and everything I value during an electrical storm. The arrestors and surge protectors won't protect you from a direct strike or even a very close strike. Lightning doesn't have to strike you directly to produce a surge. The EMF from a close strike will make toast out of many electrical items.
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Post by Hughes, G D on Sept 30, 2018 11:05:43 GMT -5
I always unplug anything and everything I value during an electrical storm. The arrestors and surge protectors won't protect you from a direct strike or even a very close strike. Lightning doesn't have to strike you directly to produce a surge. The EMF from a close strike will make toast out of many electrical items. That's exactly all true however, my system installation does not lend itself to easily accessing the connections. Besides, I can't be home always when a storm rolls through
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 30, 2018 12:41:58 GMT -5
I would file a claim with the utility insurance and let them pay for repair/replacement of everything that was damaged.
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Post by DavidR on Sept 30, 2018 13:25:54 GMT -5
I would file a claim with the utility insurance and let them pay for repair/replacement of everything that was damaged. Doubt that will get any where. Acts of God.
There's a house in Monson, MA that had a direct strike to a tree in the backyard. Some how the energy found a path under the lawn and created a 20 ft. trough of dirt and found the house electrical ground wire. It fried the entire house wiring. I was unable to find the video of the damage.
Unplug if you go away and are expecting storms.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 30, 2018 13:27:55 GMT -5
I would file a claim with the utility insurance and let them pay for repair/replacement of everything that was damaged. Doubt that will get any where. Acts of God. That depends on the stated coverage.
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Sept 30, 2018 13:41:53 GMT -5
Doubt that will get any where. Acts of God. That depends on the stated coverage. So corporate has taken a stance on the existence of God! 🤔 hmmmm 🤔
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Post by Hughes, G D on Sept 30, 2018 16:21:02 GMT -5
Doubt that will get any where. Acts of God. That depends on the stated coverage. Its actually a monthly fee I pay to Gulf Power for surge protection. They supply a surge protector on the power meter, CATV, and phone line. It allows $5000.00 for any affected device. Refrigerator, microwave, HVAC, etc. But my question is more about whether or not I should be concerned that more might be affected than just the HDMI 1 (obviously I should be concerned unless someone who knows the components could say that the circuitry is arranged such that it's not a possibility to cross from one HDMI to other components) and whether or not said further damage might be detectable by a technician considering that everything seems stable other that the HDMI 1 Does that make sense?
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 30, 2018 16:28:46 GMT -5
Yes you should be concerned. It needs to go in for evaluation. Unless you want to pay for that you should contact the utility.
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Post by Hughes, G D on Sept 30, 2018 16:47:18 GMT -5
I guess I already knew the answer just dread being without it for repair. Maybe they'll replace rather than repair. Who knows. I'll all em tomorrow.
Thanks for re-enforcing what seems like common sense.
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Post by donh50 on Sept 30, 2018 16:53:07 GMT -5
That depends on the stated coverage. Its actually a monthly fee I pay to Gulf Power for surge protection. They supply a surge protector on the power meter, CATV, and phone line. It allows $5000.00 for any affected device. Refrigerator, microwave, HVAC, etc. But my question is more about whether or not I should be concerned that more might be affected than just the HDMI 1 (obviously I should be concerned unless someone who knows the components could say that the circuitry is arranged such that it's not a possibility to cross from one HDMI to other components) and whether or not said further damage might be detectable by a technician considering that everything seems stable other that the HDMI 1 Does that make sense? Let's see, lightning travels a mile or two through the air, strikes cable, blows through the CATV arrestor, takes out the HDMI input, not the cable or power input. How do you think it got to the HDMI input? I know I sound like a jerk here, but considering the situation then yes I would have a tech look at the unit. Surges like that often find "sneak" paths and take out additional components on the way. Not only a performance but also a safety issue. You could file a claim with your insurance company or whatever, but I would get the XMC-1 (and everything else) looked at. Including the whole-house units to make sure it is still OK. IMO - Don p.s. After decades of seeing the aftermath of a number of strikes, I can assure you that nothing will stop a direct strike, and even for nearby strikes they may fail. That said, when a tree was hit on our lot maybe 50' from the house, we were fine but our neighbors (maybe 100 yards away) suffered damage. We have whole-house lightning and surge protection (two different units at our service entrance), they did not.
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Post by DavidR on Sept 30, 2018 18:31:53 GMT -5
That depends on the stated coverage. Its actually a monthly fee I pay to Gulf Power for surge protection. They supply a surge protector on the power meter, CATV, and phone line. It allows $5000.00 for any affected device. Refrigerator, microwave, HVAC, etc. But my question is more about whether or not I should be concerned that more might be affected than just the HDMI 1 (obviously I should be concerned unless someone who knows the components could say that the circuitry is arranged such that it's not a possibility to cross from one HDMI to other components) and whether or not said further damage might be detectable by a technician considering that everything seems stable other that the HDMI 1 Does that make sense? Lucky you in regards to surge protection. Nothing like that with the utility company where I live.
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Post by westom on Oct 1, 2018 10:07:51 GMT -5
But my question is more about whether or not I should be concerned that more might be affected than just the HDMI 1 Start from the beginning. Your first mistake is to assume protection is provided by a box. That AC installed protector and all other protectors are only connecting devices to what does protection. Protection is always about the path a current takes to earth ground. That means every wire inside every incoming cable must connect low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to single point earth ground (all four words have electrical significance). AC utility will probably define protection of appliances only connect to AC. For example, a TV also connects to some internet or TV coax. If their (other utility) 'installed for free' protection also does not make a low impedance (ie hardwire has no sharp bends or splices) to the same earth ground electrode, then you have encouraged damage. Now we are ready to answer your question. What was the incoming and outgoing path of that surge? Myabe: incoming on AC mains. If TV signal wires were not connected low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to that same earth ground, then surge current is outgoing to that other earth ground (used by TV cable). Now defined is the current path. Incoming to a TV. Across the TV's motherboard. Out via the HDMI port. Damage is often on the outgoing path. How did that current get from HDMI port to (earthed) TV signal cable outside? Anything in that path is also suspect. TV would be easily fixed since the board that replaced damaged HDMI parts will probably also replace all other TV electronics including its power supply. Your question concerns overstress. Some overstressed parts may fail weeks or months later, Watch what happens to other parts in that path outgoing to earth ground. Meanwhile, you had damage. Search for the human mistake. The investigation always starts at the only item that does protection. Not any protector. Single point earth ground and its low impedance (ie hardwire not inside metallic conduit) connections. Effective protection means no surge current is anywhere inside. You know it was inside. Some human made a mistake. Critical is the item that does all protection. Not any protector. Single point earth ground. Since that current did not connect low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to that earth ground, then current was all but invited inside. We know one path it used to earth: HDMI port. And we know that current was inside because some human made a mistake.
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Post by Hughes, G D on Oct 1, 2018 16:29:16 GMT -5
Agreed
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Post by Hughes, G D on Oct 1, 2018 16:32:48 GMT -5
But my question is more about whether or not I should be concerned that more might be affected than just the HDMI 1 Start from the beginning. Your first mistake is to assume protection is provided by a box. That AC installed protector and all other protectors are only connecting devices to what does protection. Protection is always about the path a current takes to earth ground. That means every wire inside every incoming cable must connect low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to single point earth ground (all four words have electrical significance). AC utility will probably define protection of appliances only connect to AC. For example, a TV also connects to some internet or TV coax. If their (other utility) 'installed for free' protection also does not make a low impedance (ie hardwire has no sharp bends or splices) to the same earth ground electrode, then you have encouraged damage. Now we are ready to answer your question. What was the incoming and outgoing path of that surge? Myabe: incoming on AC mains. If TV signal wires were not connected low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to that same earth ground, then surge current is outgoing to that other earth ground (used by TV cable). Now defined is the current path. Incoming to a TV. Across the TV's motherboard. Out via the HDMI port. Damage is often on the outgoing path. How did that current get from HDMI port to (earthed) TV signal cable outside? Anything in that path is also suspect. TV would be easily fixed since the board that replaced damaged HDMI parts will probably also replace all other TV electronics including its power supply. Your question is concerns overstresss. Some overstressed parts may fail weeks or months later, Watch what happens to other parts in that path outgoing to earth ground. Meanwhile, you had damage. Search for the human mistake. The investigation always starts at the only item that does protection. Not any protector. Single point earth ground and its low impedance (ie hardwire not inside metallic conduit) connections. Effective protection means no surge current is anywhere inside. You know it was inside. Some human made a mistake. Critical is the item that does all protection. Not any protector. Single point earth ground. Since that current did not connect low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to that earth ground, then current was all but invited inside. We know one path it used to earth: HDMI port. And we know that current was inside because some human made a mistake. They are sending a tech to verify a surge occurred by look at the device, Maybe it has a pop up like a turkey or something. Anyway, if he finds that it did then the XMC-1 will be replaced provided I certify my truthfulness in triplicate.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 1, 2018 17:11:28 GMT -5
What basically happened is that a current surge traveled through several pieces of equipment on its way to ground.
The official answer is that your warranty doesn't cover damage from something like lightning - because it may be severe and unpredictable.
There is a good chance that nothing except that particular input was damaged. However, there is an equally good chance that other internal parts were also damaged.
Unfortunately, there is no way to reliably tell what other parts may have been damaged to some degree, and may unpredictably fail later. (And, no, there is no way we can tell, even if the unit passes all the tests today, when or if it will fail from damage caused by the surge.)
Last week we had a really bad electrical storm. Booming hard right on top of my house. Anyway, I have lightning arrester on the CATV and a whole house surge protection at the meter as well as additional protection for all audio/video components. After the storm I found a blank TV screen when watching cable from the DVR. I determined that the HDMI out was toast so I swapped out the DVR and still had no picture, That's when I discovered that I also lost HDMI input 1 on the XMC-1. I swapped over to another HDMI input and all works fine. All other inputs appear fine. Apparently the CATV arrester failed to capture the surge. So, the question is, Do I send it in for repair? To answer that quest I need to understand a couple things. 1. How likely is it that the assumed power surge that took out the input, affected something else internally? 2. How likely is it that a technician can see a potential future failure with his/her equipment? Additionally, the whole house protection is provided by my power company and comes with replacement insurance of some kind. Should I just file a claim and have the whole thing replaced? This might be a pain in the ass but, I really don't know. Thanks in advance for your advice, David Hughes
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Post by pedrocols on Oct 1, 2018 17:35:37 GMT -5
Wow.
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Post by Hughes, G D on Oct 5, 2018 16:54:24 GMT -5
The Gulf Power technician came out to test my surge protection and found nothing. He tested the CATV filter which goes directly to a grounding rod and he tested the unit on my meter which is also grounded to a ground rod. He found nothing. So, I cant explain how the HDMI out from the DVR and the HDMI of the connected XMC-1 could fail otherwise. Coincidentally, at the time directly following a major lightning storm.
My next step could be to go ahead and take advantage of the new V3 HDMI 2.0b 4K HDCP 2.2 8X2 switching module sense the upgrade is included with my unit whenever I get ready. Thoughts?
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 5, 2018 17:14:59 GMT -5
The Gulf Power technician came out to test my surge protection and found nothing. He tested the CATV filter which goes directly to a grounding rod and he tested the unit on my meter which is also grounded to a ground rod. He found nothing. So, I cant explain how the HDMI out from the DVR and the HDMI of the connected XMC-1 could fail otherwise. Coincidentally, at the time directly following a major lightning storm. My next step could be to go ahead and take advantage of the new V3 HDMI 2.0b 4K HDCP 2.2 8X2 switching module sense the upgrade is included with my unit whenever I get ready. Thoughts? Send it in for repair ASAP Bill
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