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Post by Bonzo on Oct 2, 2018 19:22:39 GMT -5
Observe the silver symbol surrounding the words "Greatest Hits". That is the SACD symbol. It may be on the edge of the disc package also. Not to nit pick, but this is incorrect. It is not the SACD symbol. It is symply the number 30 knocked out of a circle with the words Greatest Hits over the top. The disc is afterall, his 30 Greatest Hits.
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 2, 2018 19:35:21 GMT -5
Plays fine on my Oppo and sounds real good. Russ Thanks Russ, I've ordered it and hope that it plays OK on the Sony X800. Cheers Gary
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Post by mgbpuff on Oct 2, 2018 19:37:02 GMT -5
Observe the silver symbol surrounding the words "Greatest Hits". That is the SACD symbol. It may be on the edge of the disc package also. Not to nit pick, but this is incorrect. It is not the SACD symbol. It is symply the number 30 knocked out of a circle with the words Greatest Hits over the top. The disc is afterall, his 30 Greatest Hits. I had to refocus my eyes, but you are right. Ha!
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Post by Bonzo on Oct 2, 2018 19:55:27 GMT -5
Plays fine on my Oppo and sounds real good. Russ Thanks Russ, I've ordered it and hope that it plays OK on the Sony X800. Cheers Gary Not to be mean, but how ironic would it be if it didn't play on a Sony player.
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 2, 2018 20:40:03 GMT -5
Thanks Russ, I've ordered it and hope that it plays OK on the Sony X800. Not to be mean, but how ironic would it be if it didn't play on a Sony player. That thought did cross my mind Cheers Gary
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 22, 2018 23:54:11 GMT -5
It finally arrived today, held up in Customs or something I'll give it a try when I get home and report the listening experience. Cheers Gary
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 23, 2018 7:44:46 GMT -5
Not to be mean, but how ironic would it be if it didn't play on a Sony player. That thought did cross my mind It’s your fault, the Sony X800 seems to only want to play the CD (RedBook) layer I’ve tried the usual Settings tricks and it’s always 44.1 kHz / 16 bit / 1.4 Mbps. Can’t get a DSD output. The XMC-1 display says PCM 2.0 / 44.1 kHz / 24 bits (interesting ?) Plays in the ERC-3 just fine, just like a hybrid disc, as expected. Time for sleep, I’ll do some more research tomorrow Cheers Gary
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 23, 2018 8:54:26 GMT -5
Unfortunately, Amazon often confuses formats, and they tend to cross-post reviews of any format to the product pages of all of the different formats. I saw a blog post noting that, in 2005, when the Hybrid SACD version came out, there was also a CD-only version available. I also saw a comment that the Amazon version is really not an SACD. It's gotten even more complicated, now that there are so many downloadable formats, and they tend to post one picture to cover all of them.
In fact, now that DSD has become one of the popular buzzwords, it wouldn't surprise me to see albums that are simply "mastered in DSD" or "recorded in DSD", but aren't DSD at all. (Just think about how many "20 bit mastered" and "20 bit process" CDs you've seen - even though, by definition, ALL Red Book CDs are 16/44.)
Normally, on Amazon, you're safer looking up the ASIN, which they usually get right. (The ASIN is supposed to be unique for a given product... so should be different for the different versions... although sometimes the descriptions are just plain wrong.
Any SACD should carry the SACD LOGO - on the case and on the disc. Most of them also come in that odd version of a jewel case - heavy with rounded corners.
(However, from one BLOG, the 2005 version of that Sam Cooke album on Hybrid SACD supposedly comes in a DigiPack - one of those cardboard folder thingys.) I should also note that the DSD FILE version should be the same as an SACD disc - although quite possible from a different master.
I have seen claims that a special "DSD disc" format (other than SACD) exists, and can be played by some players, but no details about whether it's just DSD files on a data disc or not.
Incidentally, it also apparently comes as a Blu-Ray now:
(Note that this particular store seems to be in Australia.)
However, all this silliness aside, if you really want the album in DSD format then buy the DSD files.... since they're in the same format as what's on a plastic SACD.
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Post by drtrey3 on Oct 23, 2018 9:09:50 GMT -5
I have the bona fide SACD of the disc. It is lovely and worth figuring out a way to get at the content.
Trey
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 23, 2018 12:02:25 GMT -5
I would suggest looking at the disc on a computer. You might luck out and find that it is a "combo CD" and contains both a CD section and a data CD section with DSD files on it. (Sadly, I have a nasty feeling you might find that you've actually just got a CD version.)
That thought did cross my mind It’s your fault, the Sony X800 seems to only want to play the CD (RedBook) layer I’ve tried the usual Settings tricks and it’s always 44.1 kHz / 16 bit / 1.4 Mbps. Can’t get a DSD output. The XMC-1 display says PCM 2.0 / 44.1 kHz / 24 bits (interesting ?) Plays in the ERC-3 just fine, just like a hybrid disc, as expected. Time for sleep, I’ll do some more research tomorrow Cheers Gary
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 23, 2018 19:34:53 GMT -5
I would suggest looking at the disc on a computer. You might luck out and find that it is a "combo CD" and contains both a CD section and a data CD section with DSD files on it. (Sadly, I have a nasty feeling you might find that you've actually just got a CD version.) That's the plan for tonight, I'll slot it into the MacMini and see what it looks like. I meant to bring it to work and try it in my PC lap top running Windows 10, note to self, remember it tomorrow. I could send it back to Amazon for a refund as the description ( PORTRAIT OF A LEGEND 1951 - 1964 (SACD) CD, Hybrid SACD - DSD, Import, Original recording reissued, Original recording remastered, Super Audio CD - DSD) definitely does not match what I received. Although it accurately matches the pictures (ie; there's no SACD logo or mention of anything other than DSD on the case). From a sound review perspective it actually sounds pretty good, through the ERC-3 and the XSP-1 it is definitely better sounding than the other Sam Cooke CD's I have. It's eerily silent when there's no music. I'll probably keep it as result. Cheers Gary
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 24, 2018 6:56:09 GMT -5
The MacMini sees them as AIFF-C files, copies to iTunes automatically. I'll try it in a PC Lap Top tomorrow running Windows 10.
Cheers Gary
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 24, 2018 8:41:06 GMT -5
Assuming that you have AIFF-C files with DSD packed inside them, iTunes may or may not convert them to PCM, or be able to play them as DSD. (iTunes normally converts everything to the default format when it imports it, unless you configure it differently, and may handle DSD different than other formats as well.)
There are several different formats used for DSD data itself - and many of them can be combined with various envelope formats (an envelope is a file format that can contain a variety of different sorts of data inside).
According to WikiPedia, AIFF-C is an envelope format for audio (like MKV is for video) - and it can store a variety of both lossless and lossy data. Therefore, you need something that actually tells you what's inside the AIFF envelope on the files you have.
According to some other sources, one of the data formats you can store inside an AIFF envelope is "DSD as DoP". (Unfortunately, there are a few standard formats for putting DSD in a file, like DSD and DSF, but this is not one of them.)
The fact is, you don't need to know the exact details, if you can just find something that can recognize and play (or convert) those files.
Odds are at least a few well known music players can recognize it - but most won't. If you use one of the popular big players like jRiver, I would try that first.
If that doesn't work...
In many cases, places that sell downloads or discs in odd formats, like HD Tracks, also include a section on their website explaining what programs will play them and even sometimes how to configure them.
Amazon probably won't but, if you search for more boutique stores that sell that disc, odds are one or more of them will mention how to play it. Alternately, see if the company (the "label") who produced the disc itself has a website; they may even put a reference to it on the disc label. (After all, they WANT people to be able to play it.)
There's a good chance they're promoting their new format - and will have information on their website for how wonderful it is... and how to play it.
Here's some information about how to get your Sony to play DSD files off a disc (they mention that model in particular). (It also lists programs that play them... although it doesn't specifically mention DSD over AIFF-C... it does tell you how to play DSD files on the Sony if you find something that will convert them,)
Welcome to the world of "strange, new, and interesting audio formats for fun and aggravation".
Just for the record here....
I suspect that you're not going to find much difference between the CD portion (which you say sounds good) and a DSD version. We all know that the original is probably a magnetic tape - unless they pulled it from an LP copy or other sort of vinyl master.
Therefore, it most certainly was not "recorded to DSD"; at most you're looking at a different A/D conversion from the same analog master. (And, no, I'm not convinced that there would be a major difference if it had been recorded to DSD directly either.)
The MacMini sees them as AIFF-C files, copies to iTunes automatically. I'll try it in a PC Lap Top tomorrow running Windows 10. Cheers Gary
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Post by Casey Leedom on Oct 24, 2018 11:22:06 GMT -5
Much as I generally like Apple products, iTunes is above and beyond any other description, a steaming cesspool of random features which have been dumped into a single application without any kind of User Interface coherency. But beyond the complete disaster that iTunes is from a UI standpoint, it's also a completely technically incompetent Music Library Manager. Some of this is driven by lack of attention and focus, but a lot is also driven by internal politics. A great example of the latter is the lack of FLAC support. Apple has AIFF as their Lossless Audio Codec/Format and they won't support FLAC because of that. Any rational Independent Provider of a Music Library Manager would support all popular Audio Codecs/File Formats in order to appeal to as many Customers as possible.
Every time I'm forced to launch iTunes I regret it. And I'd simply delete it off my system if I had a convenient way to manage Music on my iPhone.
Casey
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Post by creimes on Oct 24, 2018 13:33:32 GMT -5
The Pioneer Elite player I own will only output the audio track of a SACD through it's analog outputs, I found that out after messing around for an hour and eventually reading the manual haha.
Chad
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 24, 2018 14:47:52 GMT -5
The Pioneer Elite player I own will only output the audio track of a SACD through it's analog outputs, I found that out after messing around for an hour and eventually reading the manual haha. Chad Thanks for the tip Chad, but the X800 doesn’t have any analogue outputs, just HDMI and digital coax. Cheers Gary
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 24, 2018 14:59:19 GMT -5
Much as I generally like Apple products, iTunes is above and beyond any other description, a steaming cesspool of random features which have been dumped into a single application without any kind of User Interface coherency. But beyond the complete disaster that iTunes is from a UI standpoint, it's also a completely technically incompetent Music Library Manager. Some of this is driven by lack of attention and focus, but a lot is also driven by internal politics. A great example of the latter is the lack of FLAC support. Apple has AIFF as their Lossless Audio Codec/Format and they won't support FLAC because of that. Any rational Independent Provider of a Music Library Manager would support all popular Audio Codecs/File Formats in order to appeal to as many Customers as possible. Every time I'm forced to launch iTunes I regret it. And I'd simply delete it off my system if I had a convenient way to manage Music on my iPhone. Casey Hi Casey, I don’t have any issues with iTunes, but I don’t ask it to do much, just play music from multiple devices and occasionally have it copy a new CD to my library. My requirements are simple so I don’t demand much, mostly just a useable interface that works on the families’ iDevices and in the cars. Cheers Gary
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Post by creimes on Oct 24, 2018 15:12:35 GMT -5
The Pioneer Elite player I own will only output the audio track of a SACD through it's analog outputs, I found that out after messing around for an hour and eventually reading the manual haha. Chad Thanks for the tip Chad, but the X800 doesn’t have any analogue outputs, just HDMI and digital coax. Cheers Gary Ahhhh it was worth a shot
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 24, 2018 15:15:25 GMT -5
Thanks KeithL, I’ll have a read during the day and also see what the files look like on a PC. It’s a 2003 Universal re issue of a remaster from ABKO Music and Records Inc. On their web site it describes it as being part of their hybrid SACD/CD disc collection. The restoration producer was Jody Klein and it’s compiled from the highest quality original studio master tapes that they could find. It is the best sounding of the Sam Cooke music I have heard, so they did a good job. Cheers Gary
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 24, 2018 15:30:15 GMT -5
Because of the copy protection requirements, when playing SACD discs, players are only allowed to give you a full quality digital audio output via HDMI (because the connection is protected by encryption). They will either output a reduced-quality digital version from any other digital outputs - or simply mute those when playing an SACD disc.
This is specifically tied in with the SACD DISC standard - and so shouldn't apply to other DSD files on disc. Unfortunately, since most stereo DACs lack HDMI inputs, this limits your options mostly to surround sound processors.
The Pioneer Elite player I own will only output the audio track of a SACD through it's analog outputs, I found that out after messing around for an hour and eventually reading the manual haha. Chad Thanks for the tip Chad, but the X800 doesn’t have any analogue outputs, just HDMI and digital coax. Cheers Gary
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