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Post by leonski on Oct 4, 2018 1:25:50 GMT -5
Gary, I'm generally loathe to call someone on a spelling error....or IS it? 'Fiend' is not quite the same as 'Friend' though maybe in some cases related!
I'm still laughing. Pulling the 'R' out of friend to make fiend is an old Rocky and Bullwinkle gag. 45 years ago, we'd do the same thing to a local motel that advertised 'Your Friendliest Motel'..... At 0300 we'd be going home from a bar run and stop by, do a human pyramid, pull the 'R', slide the 'F' over and toss the R into the bushes where it was certain to be found.
Enjoy,,,,
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 4, 2018 8:14:49 GMT -5
Hey, folks! Emotiva is getting ready for 11.5.8, so I am, too! emotiva.com/blogs/latest-1/emotiva-gets-ready-for-11-5-8-dolby-atmosThe question is: what's a good layout for all those channels? I'm currently and perpetually in the design phase (aren't we all) for my dedicated theater room, so thought I'd share a rough sketch of my thinking, and I would love to hear what others are planning for "beyond 9.1.6." I basically took Dolby's 9.1.6 guidelines and added a 2nd set of side surrounds (one set for each row of seating in a two-row layout) which brought my floor count to 11, then added front heights to bring the height count to 8. For subs, I did one in the middle of each of the side and back walls, then two for the front walls (between the LCRs). Let me know y'alls thoughts for 11.5.8! (note: the bottom-right corner is an A/C chase, and right above that is the intake vent) Room as it stands now: (note: the bottom-right corner (big black rectangle) is an A/C chase, so it's off-limits for my design) Have you finalized ticket 🎫 prices?
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Post by freality on Oct 4, 2018 9:55:31 GMT -5
Have you finalized ticket 🎫 prices? At this rate, I'll be open for business by 2025! Free popcorn with the purchase of way too many speakers.
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 4, 2018 11:17:44 GMT -5
At this rate, I'll be open for business by 2025! Free popcorn with the purchase of way too many speakers. Ha! (you will make it quicker than that!) I missed the cubic footage for that room......or did I? A prime ingredient for the size of your loudspeakers and how much "ground" they will cover, collectively, including the overheads. Bill Bill
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Post by leonski on Oct 4, 2018 12:35:27 GMT -5
405 makes a good point. While I see references to 'good' room dimensions or perhaps either PHI or the Golden Ratio, I don't see much reference to height except that it isn't constant from end to end.
For example? A 'perfect' room using Phi might have 8 foot ceilings, be just short of 13 feet in width and almost 21 feet long. 8x13x21 would probably be close enough. and not even 2200 cubic feet.
The last kind of is the 'workload' on the speaker system, along with how 'live' the room is.
For a 9 foot ceiling? You end up with a room about 14.5 feet wide and 23.5 feet long and about a tick over 3000 cubic feet. Maybe 40% more volume than the 8 feet base line room.
If I won the LOTTO and won Big, I'd do original construction with a 10 foot ceiling which would end up about 4230 cubic feet, and be over 26 x 16 and I suspect Require 2 or more subs if not more.
And I see one MORE thing. The front row seating is near the 1/2 way point on length of room. This is a potential node and might have audio problems which when fixed with 'room correction' (it doesn't) might cause issues somewhere else.
page 2 of thread calls out ceiling height of 9 feet, sloping to 7 1/2 feet at one end.
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Post by freality on Oct 4, 2018 14:15:14 GMT -5
405 makes a good point. While I see references to 'good' room dimensions or perhaps either PHI or the Golden Ratio, I don't see much reference to height except that it isn't constant from end to end. For example? A 'perfect' room using Phi might have 8 foot ceilings, be just short of 13 feet in width and almost 21 feet long. 8x13x21 would probably be close enough. and not even 2200 cubic feet. The last kind of is the 'workload' on the speaker system, along with how 'live' the room is. For a 9 foot ceiling? You end up with a room about 14.5 feet wide and 23.5 feet long and about a tick over 3000 cubic feet. Maybe 40% more volume than the 8 feet base line room. If I won the LOTTO and won Big, I'd do original construction with a 10 foot ceiling which would end up about 4230 cubic feet, and be over 26 x 16 and I suspect Require 2 or more subs if not more. And I see one MORE thing. The front row seating is near the 1/2 way point on length of room. This is a potential node and might have audio problems which when fixed with 'room correction' (it doesn't) might cause issues somewhere else. page 2 of thread calls out ceiling height of 9 feet, sloping to 7 1/2 feet at one end. Indeed, I wasn't very clear (was just focusing on speaker placement at the time). The entire ceiling is a flat 9' until you get to the dotted line near the A/C closet, then it slopes at the dotted line from 9' to about 7.5' at the A/C closet wall. Depending on how I decide to enclose the room (with different room orientations I'm considering), dimensions would be around: Length = between 23 and 25.5' Width = 16.5' Height = 9' (around 3400 - 3700cuft or so) It's a bit of an optical illusion, but the front row is at 15' which is almost at the 2/3 point of the room, rather than 1/2.
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Post by bblv on Oct 4, 2018 23:01:38 GMT -5
What app did you use to create this layout, SketchUp?
Clean layout and very similar to mine that is basically complete, short of speakers and RMC-1 (11.4.6 layout). It's tough looking at a skeleton rack with only an XPA-DR3 and a pair of XPA-7's in it!!
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Post by freality on Oct 5, 2018 1:10:10 GMT -5
What app did you use to create this layout, SketchUp? Clean layout and very similar to mine that is basically complete, short of speakers and RMC-1 (11.4.6 layout). It's tough looking at a skeleton rack with only an XPA-DR3 and a pair of XPA-7's in it!! I'm just using GIMP as a glorified Microsoft Paint, starting with a screen-grab of the online floor plan. You would be shocked and appalled if you saw the ridiculous way I was cobbling those images together. I really need to convert to something like SketchUp for sure. Do you have any images of your 11.4.6 layout & design?
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Post by micro98 on Oct 5, 2018 9:36:58 GMT -5
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Post by leonski on Oct 5, 2018 15:43:05 GMT -5
Sketchup is a neat and maybe still FREE program. A little learning curve goes a long way.
I recently remodeled my DEN. I drew a floorplan without any detail. The simpliest 'box' I could draw. I used that to estimate materials, like flooring Sq Ft and length of baseboard.
I also used a print of that drawing (laser printers rule for this application!) and was able to do detailed measurements of the available walls for fitting of new book shelves.
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Post by Bonzo on Oct 7, 2018 16:23:45 GMT -5
I'm spoiled. I use a CAD system at work that has tolerances down about 10 places below zero. I can make plans for anything super detailed. We are working on a complete kitchen remodel and while interviewing prospective companies, they are shocked by what I bring to the table.
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 7, 2018 17:18:11 GMT -5
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Post by brazensol on Oct 8, 2018 10:54:55 GMT -5
My theater is in my basement and I have not put the powder room in yet so we have to go upstairs when nature calls. It's not that big a deal, really, and given your room space if it were me I'd go with no bathroom. I understand you have IBS so you opting out of a powder room may not be an option.
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Post by freality on Oct 17, 2018 15:03:27 GMT -5
Outside of what Dolby may bring to the 11.x.x layout table, I've landed on the following 11.4.6 layout. Done a bunch more research, and this particular layout's dimensions, seating, and subwoofer locations should be close to the best my room can muster. I removed the toilet to avoid another #BathroomGate
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Post by jagman on Oct 17, 2018 20:12:47 GMT -5
Outside of what Dolby may bring to the 11.x.x layout table, I've landed on the following 11.4.6 layout. Done a bunch more research, and this particular layout's dimensions, seating, and subwoofer locations should be close to the best my room can muster. I removed the toilet to avoid another #BathroomGate I like this layout a lot 👍
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Post by goozoo on Oct 18, 2018 12:38:11 GMT -5
Outside of what Dolby may bring to the 11.x.x layout table, I've landed on the following 11.4.6 layout. Done a bunch more research, and this particular layout's dimensions, seating, and subwoofer locations should be close to the best my room can muster. I removed the toilet to avoid another #BathroomGate I like this layout better. But you are still sitting in room modes that DIRAC will only be able to correct partially. You need to move the seating closer to the screen so you are in line with a 1/4 step back. I would also remove the door on the side of the room. This will then allow you to move your side speakers closer forward as you move your seating into a more ideal position. Your width channels are also placed too far back and out of spec with what Dolby recommends. Ideally they are placed midway between your fronts and side surrounds. What have you decided on the final location of your equipment rack(s)?
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Post by leonski on Oct 18, 2018 12:50:24 GMT -5
Don't forget that DIRAC and the other 'room correction' software and devices DO NOT actually 'correct the room'. They correct your perception at the point (s) where the measurement microphone is placed. So you end up drawing an equalization curve FOR THAT POINT or pointS. Such manipulation will Probably make is worse somewhere else in the same space. Is it an illusion or do the front row seats sit about 1/2 way in the room, front to back?
A better and properly treated room might apply such corrections more lightly and perhaps have a larger 'sweet spot' for good listening.
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Post by lrobertson on Oct 18, 2018 12:55:02 GMT -5
I’m curious if the 11.1.8 announcement means you can go down in channels to 11.1.6 and still have support. I’m not sure how that works. If the ear level channels and height level are processed separately to allow for that or collectively. Might affect what you can do though idk.. you could always wire for the additional 2 just in case. Who knows if you’d notice their absence anyways. Just might leave a audible gap in object panning.
If I remember right the best ear listening position is 43% into the room from either front or back wall. But yeah stay away from 1/2. It looks like your legs will be around the 1/2 mark and they don’t care.
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Post by freality on Oct 18, 2018 15:31:14 GMT -5
goozoo leonski Perhaps just an optical illusion, but my total room length (from screen wall to back wall) is 23' and my prime (front) row is 15.25' from the screen. This means my prime row is 2/3 from the front of the room (1/3 from the back wall). Is this a room mode? [My 15.25' measurement is eyes/head to screen/front wall.] Also, my front-wides are indeed within Dolby's specs (again, probably just another optical illusion based on my paint skills); they are 56deg from the midpoint of the prime row (Dolby says between 50-70deg). The equipment racks would go somewhere in the area behind the screen (near the A/C closet). Or they could even go in that right-hand room/hall (when facing the screen) if I don't end up putting a bathroom in there.
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Post by freality on Oct 18, 2018 15:37:20 GMT -5
I’m curious if the 11.1.8 announcement means you can go down in channels to 11.1.6 and still have support. I’m not sure how that works. If the ear level channels and height level are processed separately to allow for that or collectively. Might affect what you can do though idk.. you could always wire for the additional 2 just in case. Who knows if you’d notice their absence anyways. Just might leave a audible gap in object panning. If I remember right the best ear listening position is 43% into the room from either front or back wall. But yeah stay away from 1/2. It looks like your legs will be around the 1/2 mark and they don’t care. Really good question. Indeed, I will probably end up wiring for more speakers than I initially start with (realistically, I'm probably going to be doing 9.1.6 from the start and for awhile, but just wanted to get future-proofed). Hoping some Dolby-sanctioned literature with 11.x.6 and 11.x.8 layouts start to plop in our laps soon. You're right on the money: only the prime row's legs will be at the 1/2 point.
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