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Post by steelman1991 on Feb 25, 2020 4:01:20 GMT -5
He's been described in several posts over at AVS as "a quack" by some, but revered by others - guess it depends how it fits with your agenda. Me?? I don't listen to graphs
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rxw
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Post by rxw on Feb 25, 2020 4:17:05 GMT -5
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 25, 2020 5:08:40 GMT -5
Twice I’ve watched the new 4K UHD blu-ray movie “Midway”, I’ve concluded my experience was even better the second time.
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Post by bolle on Feb 25, 2020 5:13:39 GMT -5
That´s just one opinion... Go read a little bit more and make up your own. He also measured the XMC-1 and the HTP-1, as well as the NAD M17. So it´s not like he is biased or anything and there ARE products, which measure really good. For me that means I´ll keep my XMC-1 and would rather get an HTP-1 than a RMC-1. Maybe Emotiva should get some help from Topping...
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Post by steelman1991 on Feb 25, 2020 5:35:41 GMT -5
That´s just one opinion... Go read a little bit more and make up your own. He also measured the XMC-1 and the HTP-1, as well as the NAD M17. So it´s not like he is biased or anything and there ARE products, which measure really good. For me that means I´ll keep my XMC-1 and would rather get an HTP-1 than a RMC-1. Maybe Emotiva should get some help from Topping... Definitely - I wasn't quoting an opinion on him, as I don't have the knowledge (or desire) to question his methods or results. I'll leave that to others more qualified (or self-opinionated) than I. I'm happy - as with all things audio/visual - to let my eye's and ears decide. I don't need to know how it gets there - just that it's good. And for me the RMC-1 sound is superb, whatever way you dress it up.
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Post by steelman1991 on Feb 25, 2020 5:37:33 GMT -5
Twice I’ve watched the new 4K UHD blu-ray movie “Midway”, I’ve concluded my experience was even better the second time. Was this before and after v1.8? Haven't had a chance to try out the new firmware yet. What would you say is making the difference?
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Post by cwt on Feb 25, 2020 6:15:38 GMT -5
I had a strange issue with my laptop. When I connected it to RMC, I first got no picture at all. I tried several different setting but nothing seemed to work. The I tried to lighten the burden on the HDMI cable by trying to lower the resolution. Didn’t work either. Lastly I just tried to change chroma upsampling from sending 4:4:4 to 4:2:0. Now it worked! Not even 4:2:2 worked.. Really strange. This in 1080p resolution. With your pc on 1080p its par for the course nothing with higher colour gamut worked as 1080p is fixed at 4:2:0 and 8bit colour depth If Ime reading this right ? Just as a general topic [bringing up bandwidth thanks] going forward for 4k and future discs with dolby vision and high frame rates[ like 60hz] this chart from David Meyer may save some money if they need more than the 18gbps bandwidth present 4k cables can handle community.cedia.net/blogs/david-meyer/2018/05/16/hdmi-data-rates-for-4k-hdrAs you can see discs like Billy Lynne and Gemini man [ any more coming?] are above the 18gbps limit with dolby vision adding about 4gbps to regular hdr10 with fixed 60hz output..
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Post by donh50 on Feb 25, 2020 8:15:58 GMT -5
Amir tested with 1.7 and then again with 1.8. Yes, plenty of opinions out there pro and con about him, but by and large his reviews are repeatable and he documents his methodology (which generally just follows AP guidelines -- Audio Precision makes the analyzer he and most industry folk use for testing). Some detractors have had to quietly retract or fix their data after realizing he was right, and at times he has had to retake and republish data as well. But it's the Internet, where everyone has an opinion and can shout it from the rooftops, credible or not. He's made enemies and friends (I'm in the latter camp and our disagreements have been cordial).
AVRs in general fare poorly compared to stand-alone DACs, not unexpected given the space and cost constraints. Note that a few years ago 0.00x% SINAD was pretty much state-of-the-art and that sort of performance is unlikely to yield audible distortion. But other products (AVRs) do perform better. Amir focuses on measuring performance without processing to the maximum extent possible. Most of the issues with the UI have been highlighted here and elsewhere but objective performance is his main basis for rating. The performance is disappointing, especially given that the XMC-1 was at the top of the AVR pile until the HTP-1 and many (probably most, make that all) expected the RMC-1 to top or at least match it. Maybe there are optimizations that can yet be performed but a lot of it seems HW-based (probably layout, decoupling, shielding sorts of things). Maybe there are some minor tweaks Emotiva can suggest, or perhaps some changes to the HW that will improve the performance. I am hoping Emotiva engages with Amir behind the scenes as some others have done and don't just blow him off.
Objective reviews rarely if ever sway subjective listeners, nor subjective reviews overcome objective defaults to the more technically minded, so hard to say the impact the review will have. As an EE and musician I tend to focus on the objective metrics to narrow things down then try to listen and look at features. I'm objective enough to know that -100 dB compared to -120 dB is a large performance hit but probably not audible in practice, but also if there are comparable products with better performance might as well look closely at them.
I received my upgrade email but chose to pass for now. Waiting to see how all this plays out, waiting for Dirac Live, and waiting to see what the Tax Man does to us this year. Apologies in advance for posting here, since I am not an official owner, but I thought the review interesting and my long line of other Emotiva products back to 2007 or so might let me sneak a post or two in... I suspect more non-owners than owners are following this thread (as Boomzilla rolls over in his Kingdom of the Banned).
Onwards - Don
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Post by henrikrace on Feb 25, 2020 8:42:17 GMT -5
Hi. Are there any differences to the Beta 1.8? Yes, significant ones. Lonnie
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Post by SOWK on Feb 25, 2020 8:50:00 GMT -5
Not in defense of Emotiva... but he couldn't even get HDMI to work.... So take everything with a grain of salt
HDMI working and a full power cycle (unplug and plug in) before testing is the only way to get accurate results.
But why on earth is the RMC-1 so buggy that the above is a requirement....
Blame on both sides.
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timg
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Post by timg on Feb 25, 2020 9:07:09 GMT -5
It's certainly disheartening to everyone who bought one of these and then spent the last year fighting daily bugs. Particularly those who lost equipment due to uncontrolled high output bugs. I'm in a bit better shape since mine spent the last ~7 months in a closet after I moved. Before that, my wife asked me daily why I bought it when she couldn't get it to work.
I'd like to hear Emotiva's take on the measurements. The results are all over the place. A couple are best in class, but many more are worst in class. It's not quite fair to throw Emotiva under the bus until there's been a root cause analysis. I've worked with multiple companies where our equipment was always blamed for problems. Sometimes, it was our equipment, but more often than not, it was something else. The race to place and deflect blame often helps only to hide the truth. I'd like to see Emotiva take a good hard look at these issues and 'make-it-right' for existing owners.
Examples: Intermodulation distortion starts off at reference levels and handily beats the HTP-1 and XMC-1, then at -30 becomes worst in class. Jitter peaks are higher and more pronounced than the HTP-1, but the noise floor is lower. Excellent dynamic range. THD+N an order of magnitude higher than the HTP-1 Best case SNR ~10 dB lower than best case HTP-1. Worst case SNR ~12 dB lower than worst case HTP-1.
Tim
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Post by mikoz on Feb 25, 2020 9:08:16 GMT -5
Emotiva needs to respond to the audio science review. Objectively it flopped, without a doubt.
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Post by shellcode1 on Feb 25, 2020 9:12:23 GMT -5
Not in defense of Emotiva... but he couldn't even get HDMI to work.... So take everything with a grain of salt
HDMI working and a full power cycle (unplug and plug in) before testing is the only way to get accurate results.
But why on earth is the RMC-1 so buggy that the above is a requirement....
Blame on both sides.
True, personally I've had a good experience with mine out of the box. The sound quality is there for me and rarely had any issues with locking in to sound formats etc... The sub channels don't use the PEQ filters right now but apparently that is also in the works.. can't wait for that since my subs can't be moved around any more and there is no chance for me to do sound treatment in the room PEQ is the only thing I can rely on to somewhat correct the ussues I have with the subs.. not in the mood to spend more cash on a miniDSP for the price of this unit I expect to have this things working..
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Post by henrikrace on Feb 25, 2020 9:15:27 GMT -5
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Post by PaulBe on Feb 25, 2020 9:19:44 GMT -5
I found a couple of presents exploring the new FW 1.8. Front width speakers can be set to Bi Amp Front. PEQ's now can be set up to 20Khz. Were these features here before?
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 25, 2020 9:27:30 GMT -5
I had a strange issue with my laptop. When I connected it to RMC, I first got no picture at all. I tried several different setting but nothing seemed to work. The I tried to lighten the burden on the HDMI cable by trying to lower the resolution. Didn’t work either. Lastly I just tried to change chroma upsampling from sending 4:4:4 to 4:2:0. Now it worked! Not even 4:2:2 worked.. Really strange. This in 1080p resolution. With your pc on 1080p its par for the course nothing with higher colour gamut worked as 1080p is fixed at 4:2:0 and 8bit colour depth If Ime reading this right ? Just as a general topic [bringing up bandwidth thanks] going forward for 4k and future discs with dolby vision and high frame rates[ like 60hz] this chart from David Meyer may save some money if they need more than the 18gbps bandwidth present 4k cables can handle community.cedia.net/blogs/david-meyer/2018/05/16/hdmi-data-rates-for-4k-hdrAs you can see discs like Billy Lynne and Gemini man [ any more coming?] are above the 18gbps limit with dolby vision adding about 4gbps to regular hdr10 with fixed 60hz output.. Well, the laptop settings was in 4:4:4 by default. Why shouldn’t it work? Yes, only 1080p 8bit 4:2:0 worked.. The computer said it found the Sony TV but would not send picture OR sound. No error message, just no image or sound. Could this be the same issue Amir had when he couldn’t get connection with his laptop to HTP-1 or RMC-1? Btw I have the Billy Lynne 4k disc. It worked without any issues with my passive cables, as any source has done.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 25, 2020 9:33:59 GMT -5
Twice I’ve watched the new 4K UHD blu-ray movie “Midway”, I’ve concluded my experience was even better the second time. Was this before and after v1.8? Haven't had a chance to try out the new firmware yet. What would you say is making the difference? This just meant I was highly pleased with the overall experience.
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Post by alexreusch on Feb 25, 2020 9:47:35 GMT -5
Well that seems fairly poor..... Forget about this reviewer. He is just measuring, without really knowing what he is doing. I saw terrible reviews from this guy on perfect sounding stuff... Just listen to people who use their ears to judge. Forget about the rest. There are many good reviews about the awesome sound quality of the RMC-1. Even in this forum, there are a lot of RMC-1 owners sharing their first hand experience, who pretty well understand the difference between an "OK" sounding processor and an outstanding one. I prefer their opinion over a guy that only judges on (doubtful) measurements. I listen to music, not numbers.
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Post by SOWK on Feb 25, 2020 9:47:59 GMT -5
Emotiva... Can we please get a change/update list for Firmware 1.8?
Are you still going to fix he broken sub channel PEQ? Are you still going to fix the nasty digital noise when the unit cant sync properly?
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 25, 2020 10:02:56 GMT -5
Emotiva... Can we please get a change/update list for Firmware 1.8? Are you still going to fix he broken sub channel PEQ? Are you still going to fix the nasty digital noise when the unit cant sync properly? The Firmware and notes are under the Firmware Thread now....
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