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Post by rbk123 on Nov 30, 2018 10:49:54 GMT -5
Atmos, Dolby Vision, HDR,HLG are main requirements with sound quality for music as secondary. Amp section will probably power the rear surrounds instead of the UPA-700. I mostly use my headphones, Mac Mini and Schiit combo for 2 channel but I also have the USP-1 for vinyl and CD via the Oppo. You have 4 options as I see it, assuming you don't have to buy right now: - Marantz - their high end, not the middle-end like what creimes tried - Anthem - XMC-1 - need to wait until the Atmos board is available - XMC2/RMC2 - need to wait until it is available The XMC1/Marantz/Anthems all have their fans, but you're not likely to find someone here saying anything "sounds" better than the XMC. Outside of here, many do not think the XMC sounds the best. I love my XMC but without hearing the others, I can't say it's the best. I can say I would expect it to be awfully hard to beat, and more than likely between the 3 none will be clearly superior, but just differ somewhat in certain areas. The prospect of the RMC2 is intriguing because it'll have newer surround processing chips and DACs. I would expect them to be more powerful/capable and so sound better - even for TrueHD/DTS HD (vs. Atmos improvement only).
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Post by musicfan on Nov 30, 2018 10:54:33 GMT -5
here are my .02
the xmc DOES sound great...best I have heard. however its relative. I sold mine and went BACK to a Denon 7200 so i could gte ATMOS back.
the XMC-1 is NOT so much better sounding that the lack of atmos is justified. also if you add outboard DIRAC (with a minidsp 88a) you can close that gap even further to almost negligible.
now this is only cause I use my HT for movies ONLY....if I were to listen 50/50 with music...I would sacrifice ATMOS for the slight gain in audio....with movies....not even a choice....xmc-1 out....no looking back
of course if/once XMC-1 with atmos is available...ill probably be back with emotiva
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Post by wilburthegoose on Dec 1, 2018 10:12:51 GMT -5
I had Marantz. Now an XMC1. Not even close I'll give a pass because the OP asked about a specific model Marantz, and you went completely generic. But man dude, how many times do I need call you out on this subject? What are we up to now, 50? Quit dissing all Marantz as one product and I'll stop calling you out. You seem like a really nice guy but on this topic you are, well...geez. The XMC-1 is NOT perfect. Emotiva is far from it, as is the RMC-1 proving yet again. Bonzo - your points are well taken. I made a mistake.
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Post by Bonzo on Dec 1, 2018 12:07:43 GMT -5
I'll give a pass because the OP asked about a specific model Marantz, and you went completely generic. But man dude, how many times do I need call you out on this subject? What are we up to now, 50? Quit dissing all Marantz as one product and I'll stop calling you out. You seem like a really nice guy but on this topic you are, well...geez. The XMC-1 is NOT perfect. Emotiva is far from it, as is the RMC-1 proving yet again. Bonzo - your points are well taken. I made a mistake. No mistake. You're good. I get what you say and why you say it. Unfortunately Marantz has a way over the years of making outstanding products and not so outstanding products. I have been reading magazine reviews since about 1995 and there have been many occasions where a Marantz product gets 5 stars, then in the very next magazine another Marantz product gets 3 stars. This is even before they were D&M. For what ever reason it just seems to be the way they roll. Again, unfortunate. Although nobody's perfect. Emotiva is not perfect. Their processors sound awesome from all reports. But they ALWAYS have flaws. Every one has had flaws. In the end, its all about what a person prioritizes. There are situations where the Emotiva product is going to win, and there are times the Marantz, or Denon, or Anthem will win. Emotiva does not win automatically for me because it sounds 1% better. As for the 8802a, I would have never gotten one for $4000. What creimes says makes total sense. But NOW, at this time, today, buying a 8802a for say $2000, makes it a bargain. It sounds great, and does a whole lot more than an XMC-1. Of course it's not for everyone. But the Atmos XMC-1 isn't here. Neither is the XMC-2, which will cost $1000 more and does less. I truly hope the RMC-1 gets the modules I want. If it doesn't, then I hope Anthem or Marantz steps up their game and has the inputs I want.
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Post by musicfan on Dec 1, 2018 12:56:34 GMT -5
I’ve. Been looking at a NAD 777 v3 with Dirac. It has everything I want including Interal amps. The only thing it’s lacking is dts x. But that is supposedly coming in firmware
And it’s modular. And works now.
I’m tempted to grab one at 2k to replace my Denon 7200
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 1, 2018 15:39:36 GMT -5
I’ve. Been looking at a NAD 777 v3 with Dirac. It has everything I want including Interal amps. The only thing it’s lacking is dts x. But that is supposedly coming in firmware And it’s modular. And works now. I’m tempted to grab one at 2k to replace my Denon 7200 A NAD 777, seriously .............. A puny 80 watts all channels driven, don’t believe the NAD hype, it sounds like it only has 80 watts. Only 7 amp channels, so it needs an external amp anyway (for Atmos above 5.1.2). The DIRAC setting up will make your brain ache, it’s a constant juggle between getting the microphone gain right and then matching the output volume. It’s like a circle of pain. On the DIRAC implementation front, it’s weird in that it doesn’t let you change things like the sub or the centre after you run it. So if you want more boom or louder dialogue in a particular movie, sorry. Maybe only 5 x HDMI inputs is enough for some. It was promised when it was released earlier this year, but no DTS-X last time I checked. That’s a problem on its own, but there is no mention of DTS Neural at all, which is a major isssue. Neural is the best upmixer I’ve heard so far, walks all over the others with its much more sophisticated algorithms. The lack of it alone would make me look elsewhere. How do I know the above, well a friend of mine is a NAD nutcase, everything in his set up is NAD, he just loves their stuff. He was stuck with setting up his 777, particularly the DIRAC, so I went to his place to help. After a day of playing around we got it working pretty reasonably, but for the first time ever, as far as I know, he returned a piece of NAD gear. To wait for a more complete NAD offering. That’s my experience, maybe others differ. Cheers Gary
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Post by yeeeha17 on Dec 1, 2018 16:03:50 GMT -5
Im happy with my Yamaha CX-A5100. I couldn’t image spending 2k on a processor without at least atmos. I waited and waited for the XMC but they are so behind. I still have my 40% card and I will use it when they have a working RMC-2 or XMC-2. Knock on wood, so far no glitches with my Yamaha.
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 1, 2018 17:58:53 GMT -5
Im happy with my Yamaha CX-A5100. I couldn’t image spending 2k on a processor without at least atmos. I waited and waited for the XMC but they are so behind. I still have my 40% card and I will use it when they have a working RMC-2 or XMC-2. Knock on wood, so far no glitches with my Yamaha. The Yamaha is a good choice, something I thought I would never say due to their Sabre DAC. But Yamaha's implementation is really good, none of that Sabre glare as found found in Oppos. Cheers Gary
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Post by musicfan on Dec 1, 2018 20:04:15 GMT -5
I’ve. Been looking at a NAD 777 v3 with Dirac. It has everything I want including Interal amps. The only thing it’s lacking is dts x. But that is supposedly coming in firmware And it’s modular. And works now. I’m tempted to grab one at 2k to replace my Denon 7200 A NAD 777, seriously .............. A puny 80 watts all channels driven, don’t believe the NAD hype, it sounds like it only has 80 watts. Only 7 amp channels, so it needs an external amp anyway (for Atmos above 5.1.2). The DIRAC setting up will make your brain ache, it’s a constant juggle between getting the microphone gain right and then matching the output volume. It’s like a circle of pain. On the DIRAC implementation front, it’s weird in that it doesn’t let you change things like the sub or the centre after you run it. So if you want more boom or louder dialogue in a particular movie, sorry. Maybe only 5 x HDMI inputs is enough for some. It was promised when it was released earlier this year, but no DTS-X last time I checked. That’s a problem on its own, but there is no mention of DTS Neural at all, which is a major isssue. Neural is the best upmixer I’ve heard so far, walks all over the others with its much more sophisticated algorithms. The lack of it alone would make me look elsewhere. How do I know the above, well a friend of mine is a NAD nutcase, everything in his set up is NAD, he just loves their stuff. He was stuck with setting up his 777, particularly the DIRAC, so I went to his place to help. After a day of playing around we got it working pretty reasonably, but for the first time ever, as far as I know, he returned a piece of NAD gear. To wait for a more complete NAD offering. That’s my experience, maybe others differ. Cheers Gary Was it at the beginning when it was first released? I have done throrogh research and the issues have been fixed I went with a 758 with 30 day returns. For under a grand. It will be a steal if it works out. And I will sell my 7200 and pocket some Benin’s. What you describe of Dirac is pretty standard for Dirac. Tbh As for amp I have external amps. So it will be a pre-pro I prefer the Dolby upmixer so not an issue. I contacted NAD and dtsx should be out by end of the month. (Sounds like delays just like here in emo land) And I don’t need all the hdmi. I have a 4k player and that’s it also. You can adjust the levels post Dirac but they won’t be permanent. I ama set it and forget it guy anyhow. I don’t bump up the center ever. And the subs are where they get calibrated at. With most of your posts you seem to paint whatever it is you are trying to get across to fit your narrative. I take anything you say with a grain of salt. I appreciate your taking the time for feedback though
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 1, 2018 23:40:13 GMT -5
A NAD 777, seriously .............. A puny 80 watts all channels driven, don’t believe the NAD hype, it sounds like it only has 80 watts. Only 7 amp channels, so it needs an external amp anyway (for Atmos above 5.1.2). The DIRAC setting up will make your brain ache, it’s a constant juggle between getting the microphone gain right and then matching the output volume. It’s like a circle of pain. On the DIRAC implementation front, it’s weird in that it doesn’t let you change things like the sub or the centre after you run it. So if you want more boom or louder dialogue in a particular movie, sorry. Maybe only 5 x HDMI inputs is enough for some. It was promised when it was released earlier this year, but no DTS-X last time I checked. That’s a problem on its own, but there is no mention of DTS Neural at all, which is a major isssue. Neural is the best upmixer I’ve heard so far, walks all over the others with its much more sophisticated algorithms. The lack of it alone would make me look elsewhere. How do I know the above, well a friend of mine is a NAD nutcase, everything in his set up is NAD, he just loves their stuff. He was stuck with setting up his 777, particularly the DIRAC, so I went to his place to help. After a day of playing around we got it working pretty reasonably, but for the first time ever, as far as I know, he returned a piece of NAD gear. To wait for a more complete NAD offering. That’s my experience, maybe others differ. Was it at the beginning when it was first released? I have done throrogh research and the issues have been fixed I went with a 758 with 30 day returns. For under a grand. It will be a steal if it works out. And I will sell my 7200 and pocket some Benin’s. What you describe of Dirac is pretty standard for Dirac. Tbh As for amp I have external amps. So it will be a pre-pro I prefer the Dolby upmixer so not an issue. I contacted NAD and dtsx should be out by end of the month. (Sounds like delays just like here in emo land) And I don’t need all the hdmi. I have a 4k player and that’s it also. You can adjust the levels post Dirac but they won’t be permanent. I ama set it and forget it guy anyhow. I don’t bump up the center ever. And the subs are where they get calibrated at. With most of your posts you seem to paint whatever it is you are trying to get across to fit your narrative. I take anything you say with a grain of salt. I appreciate your taking the time for feedback though They were released around June/July so around August/September. I was talking to my friend on Friday and locally (Australia) no confirmation of DTSX yet. All of the DIRACS I have used allow permanent volume adj, the NAD is the only one that I have used that you have to adjust it each time you change sources and/or restart. I find movie dialogues to be up and down in volume, that why I prefer DTS-X over Atmos as it allows for adjustment of the dialogue whereas Atmos only allows for adjusting the centre channel. Each to his own, but Neural is technically streets ahead of Dolby Surround (DSU) it's not even close. Mine is not a unique opinion rantingsofamadaudiophile.wordpress.com/2017/05/20/dtsx-vs-dolby-atmos-part-ii-dolby-surround-vs-dts-neuralx/It's probably my OCD but I hate the thought of paying for amplifiers and then not using them, it seems such a waste. Plus there must be a sound quality compromise having them there and not using them compared to a processor where only what is used is in the box. I give honest opinions based on my experiences, if I don't have any experience in the thread matter then I don't post. When I read back what I wrote there is nothing in it you really disagree with technically. Of course there are differences in preferences of DSU and Neural, which is nothing more than a difference in listening opinions which is hardly unusual around here. Cheers Gary
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Post by musicfan on Dec 2, 2018 7:48:08 GMT -5
I know what your saying
I have over 200 movies with 3d audio
30 or so have dts-x so although it may be a preferred meathid cause you can tweak (again I don’t) it’s the minority
Why would you want to change the volume level after calibration? Makes no sense. You want all the channels equal
I have not used amps in any processor that had amps including what I have had in my theater for years
As for the firmware for dtsx. I have heard from multiple sources including NAD it will be out this month. Take that for what it is
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Post by foggy1956 on Dec 2, 2018 8:07:34 GMT -5
I know what your saying I have over 200 movies with 3d audio 30 or so have dts-x so although it may be a preferred meathid cause you can tweak (again I don’t) it’s the minority Why would you want to change the volume level after calibration? Makes no sense. You want all the channels equal I have not used amps in any processor that had amps including what I have had in my theater for years As for the firmware for dtsx. I have heard from multiple sources including NAD it will be out this month. Take that for what it is You change the volume level to enhance dialogue for your old ass ears like mine😊
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Post by emofrmcgy on Dec 2, 2018 10:21:41 GMT -5
I know what your saying I have over 200 movies with 3d audio 30 or so have dts-x so although it may be a preferred meathid cause you can tweak (again I don’t) it’s the minority Why would you want to change the volume level after calibration? Makes no sense. You want all the channels equal I have not used amps in any processor that had amps including what I have had in my theater for years As for the firmware for dtsx. I have heard from multiple sources including NAD it will be out this month. Take that for what it is You change the volume level to enhance dialogue for your old ass ears like mine😊 Lol. Damn near spit my coffee out. Thank you.
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Post by musicfan on Dec 2, 2018 11:09:08 GMT -5
You change the volume level to enhance dialogue for your old ass ears like mine😊 Lol. Damn near spit my coffee out. Thank you. Makes sense. But why not just bump the overall volume?? If you bump the center only. And there is a pan from Right to left. It’s goung to go low loud low. That sounds awful
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bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
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Post by bootman on Dec 2, 2018 11:32:07 GMT -5
Get the one that will have the features you need now and fits your budget.
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Post by creimes on Dec 2, 2018 11:53:15 GMT -5
Bonzo - your points are well taken. I made a mistake. No mistake. You're good. I get what you say and why you say it. Unfortunately Marantz has a way over the years of making outstanding products and not so outstanding products. I have been reading magazine reviews since about 1995 and there have been many occasions where a Marantz product gets 5 stars, then in the very next magazine another Marantz product gets 3 stars. This is even before they were D&M. For what ever reason it just seems to be the way they roll. Again, unfortunate. Although nobody's perfect. Emotiva is not perfect. Their processors sound awesome from all reports. But they ALWAYS have flaws. Every one has had flaws. In the end, its all about what a person prioritizes. There are situations where the Emotiva product is going to win, and there are times the Marantz, or Denon, or Anthem will win. Emotiva does not win automatically for me because it sounds 1% better. As for the 8802a, I would have never gotten one for $4000. What creimes says makes total sense. But NOW, at this time, today, buying a 8802a for say $2000, makes it a bargain. It sounds great, and does a whole lot more than an XMC-1. Of course it's not for everyone. But the Atmos XMC-1 isn't here. Neither is the XMC-2, which will cost $1000 more and does less. I truly hope the RMC-1 gets the modules I want. If it doesn't, then I hope Anthem or Marantz steps up their game and has the inputs I want. I also view Marantz like Apple, every 6 months there is a "New Model" processor out, better this better that, why don't they just make one that is expandable/upgrade-able, I'm guessing they would make much less money doing so, I mean if they can sell you a whole new processor I'm sure profits are much higher this way, but for some who don't care as I much I see your point in waiting and buying used.
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Post by emofrmcgy on Dec 2, 2018 12:04:25 GMT -5
Lol. Damn near spit my coffee out. Thank you. Makes sense. But why not just bump the overall volume?? If you bump the center only. And there is a pan from Right to left. It’s goung to go low loud low. That sounds awful I honestly don’t have the issue of garbled or low Center channel volumes. I’m firm with calibrating and leaving it alone. Most times I don’t even bump the sub trims in my room. I like flat measured bass and matching spl’s across ALL my channels. But foggy made my day with his comment.
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Post by emofrmcgy on Dec 2, 2018 12:11:55 GMT -5
No mistake. You're good. I get what you say and why you say it. Unfortunately Marantz has a way over the years of making outstanding products and not so outstanding products. I have been reading magazine reviews since about 1995 and there have been many occasions where a Marantz product gets 5 stars, then in the very next magazine another Marantz product gets 3 stars. This is even before they were D&M. For what ever reason it just seems to be the way they roll. Again, unfortunate. Although nobody's perfect. Emotiva is not perfect. Their processors sound awesome from all reports. But they ALWAYS have flaws. Every one has had flaws. In the end, its all about what a person prioritizes. There are situations where the Emotiva product is going to win, and there are times the Marantz, or Denon, or Anthem will win. Emotiva does not win automatically for me because it sounds 1% better. As for the 8802a, I would have never gotten one for $4000. What creimes says makes total sense. But NOW, at this time, today, buying a 8802a for say $2000, makes it a bargain. It sounds great, and does a whole lot more than an XMC-1. Of course it's not for everyone. But the Atmos XMC-1 isn't here. Neither is the XMC-2, which will cost $1000 more and does less. I truly hope the RMC-1 gets the modules I want. If it doesn't, then I hope Anthem or Marantz steps up their game and has the inputs I want. I also view Marantz like Apple, every 6 months there is a "New Model" processor out, better this better that, why don't they just make one that is expandable/upgrade-able, I'm guessing they would make much less money doing so, I mean if they can sell you a whole new processor I'm sure profits are much higher this way, but for some who don't care as I much I see your point in waiting and buying used. We’ve all seen how modularity and upgrades work... Buy for the here and now, NOT what is “promised” a month, six months or in Emotiva’s case Multiple years down the road.
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Post by foggy1956 on Dec 2, 2018 12:14:06 GMT -5
Makes sense. But why not just bump the overall volume?? If you bump the center only. And there is a pan from Right to left. It’s goung to go low loud low. That sounds awful I honestly don’t have the issue of garbled or low Center channel volumes. I’m firm with calibrating and leaving it alone. Most times I don’t even bump the sub trims in my room. I like flat measured bass and matching spl’s across ALL my channels. But foggy made my day with his comment. Too many years of loud 3nvironments have left my hearing less than it once was, raising the center channel volume makes most dialogue easier to hear. YMMV
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Post by musicfan on Dec 2, 2018 12:37:56 GMT -5
Makes sense. But why not just bump the overall volume?? If you bump the center only. And there is a pan from Right to left. It’s goung to go low loud low. That sounds awful I honestly don’t have the issue of garbled or low Center channel volumes. I’m firm with calibrating and leaving it alone. Most times I don’t even bump the sub trims in my room. I like flat measured bass and matching spl’s across ALL my channels. But foggy made my day with his comment. Yeah it’s either hearing loss or a problem with the center speaker, it’s placement the room. Or all of the above.
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